The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => Game Show Channels & Networks => Topic started by: FACEO15 on November 18, 2006, 04:36:02 PM
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I am over from GSN, if you don't know who the hey I am!
Anyway, are you guys excited about these two specials that are happening.
One that we can buy and one we will see on GSN! This should be great. There also is a MG Marathon on GSN Saturday Night at 8:00PM till 11:00PM. Don't forget about the original Match Game at 3:30AM on Monday Morning!
This is going to be great!
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I'm interested in seeing how Richard Dawson looks and what he has to say. Buzzerblog.com says he's going to be on.
My copy of the B/W episode has the ending cut-off so I'm glad for the chance to see it again.
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[quote name=\'PaulD\' post=\'138217\' date=\'Nov 18 2006, 06:05 PM\']
I'm interested in seeing how Richard Dawson looks and what he has to say. Buzzerblog.com says he's going to be on.[/quote]
Richard Dawson's interviews were clearly conducted some time ago, probably around the time when GSN was just getting started and getting comments from all the icons they could get their hands on.
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I have the DVD of the documentary, and I'll watch it when I can (My work schedule DJing has been really busy), but if I had to guess, I'd say it's old footage. I'm curious if I typed if it was new footage or old, because I certainly don't remember. Regardless, I'll tell you how the documentary is sometime this weekend if anyone cares.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'138219\' date=\'Nov 18 2006, 06:25 PM\']
Richard Dawson's interviews were clearly conducted some time ago, probably around the time when GSN was just getting started and getting comments from all the icons they could get their hands on.
[/quote]
I would assume Gene's remarks are from about the same time?
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[quote name=\'aaron sica\' post=\'138234\' date=\'Nov 19 2006, 12:00 AM\']
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'138219\' date=\'Nov 18 2006, 06:25 PM\']
Richard Dawson's interviews were clearly conducted some time ago, probably around the time when GSN was just getting started and getting comments from all the icons they could get their hands on.[/quote]I would assume Gene's remarks are from about the same time?[/quote]
Yep.
In a nutshell, the documentary is very, very watchable. Fans like us will enjoy it, but when the shocking revelations include the fact that drinking went on during lunch and Richard was an unhappy jerk, understand that we're not going to learn anything new here.
Lots of people are featured in interviews, and it's sometimes hard to tell which ones were interviewed specifically for this project and which ones were taken from other sources. On the positive side, you have insider recollections from Ira Skutch, Dick DeBartolo and talent coordinator Diane Janaver (who tells an interesting story about her speech to contestants on what words they can and can't say). On the of-course-they-were-included side you have comments from Fred Wostbrock, Steve Beverly and Brett Somers (who's quoted frequently but really doesn't bring much to the tale). On the "Huh?" side you have random and jarringly out of place comments from Bil Dwyer, Shandi Finnessey and Louie Anderson. Useful celebrity comments come mostly from Jimmie Walker, Marcia Wallace and (far too infrequently) Betty White. Oddly, Charles Nelson Reilly does not participate.
The Rayburn interview is treated like the Holy Grail of lost footage, which in some ways is cool but in some ways is just sorta silly. They don't ignore his unhappy later life, which is admirable but bittersweet. The preview copy does not include credits so I can't tell you who the dull narrator is, but I'm hoping against hope that the narration on the preview copy is a placeholder for a more lively voiceover in the final version.
In short, though there are some temporary effects that will be cleaned up in the final version, it's easy to see that this is a competent, slickly-made documentary that wouldn't seem out of place at all as a Biography or an E! True Hollywood Story. I'm anxious to see what else this company comes up with.
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I was hoping for an interview with the desk clerk from that motel in Encino.
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From the press release Matt the narrator is listed as Jamie Farr. From what you say it sounds like this should be very enjoyable.
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Could've been worse in the "irrelevant pseudo-celeb" department. Could've been Mel Peachey talking about her mum and dad watching "Blankety Blank" with Terry Wogan. :)
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There were a few surprises during this special. First, I saw of all people Steve Beverly. Second, I learned the specific details on how the Match Game Panel would look like each week.
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[quote name=\'bandit_bobby\' post=\'138886\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 11:47 AM\']
There were a few surprises during this special. First, I saw of all people Steve Beverly. Second, I learned the specific details on how the Match Game Panel would look like each week.
[/quote]
I saw one big surprise. Many on the board (especially myself) have whined and moaned about the Endemol shows' tendencies to shut down and unravel when something goes astray of the plan during taping. We pointed to the days when Gene would bang on the Super Match Board or play around with the sliding boards that held A and B, and the clip stayed in. Well sure enough, along comes Marcia Wallace with a story--backed up by Brett Somers--about how one of her answers caused the Match Game taping to shut down and unravel. So much for that comparison, though it was for a much different reason than the typical Endemol issues.
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[quote name=\'bandit_bobby\' post=\'138886\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 07:47 AM\']
There were a few surprises during this special. First, I saw of all people Steve Beverly. [/quote]
If you were the least bit surprised at this, then you're living in an even more oblivious state than we thought.
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[quote name=\'cweaver\' post=\'138890\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 11:31 AM\']Well sure enough, along comes Marcia Wallace with a story--backed up by Brett Somers--about how one of her answers caused the Match Game taping to shut down and unravel. So much for that comparison, though it was for a much different reason than the typical Endemol issues.[/quote]
The difference is the Match Game situation being an isolated incident, and so notable that it turned into an anecdote. Most traditional game shows had occasional screwups that caused stops, and even in the modern era, shows like Jeopardy and Hollywood Squares would think nothing of stopping for a moment if there was a problem. The Endemol mindset is that a game can be done in bits and pieces and then put together in editing, and that stops can be done for the tiniest of reasons, like redoing a host's line reading.
There's no question that the ultimate result -- when done correctly -- is a slicker product than it would be otherwise. The question is whether it makes the show any better. I personally think a lot of editing sucks the immediacy out of a game show, and that one of the great appeals of a show like that is the sense that it's happening in the moment.
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[quote name=\'cweaver\' post=\'138890\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 11:31 AM\']
Well sure enough, along comes Marcia Wallace with a story--backed up by Brett Somers--about how one of her answers caused the Match Game taping to shut down and unravel. [/quote]
(I've forgotten: did they do a re-take, or bleep Marcia's response from that show?)
(Edited to remove a duplication of Dr. Ottinger's earlier comment.)
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'138897\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 11:32 AM\']
[quote name=\'cweaver\' post=\'138890\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 11:31 AM\']Well sure enough, along comes Marcia Wallace with a story--backed up by Brett Somers--about how one of her answers caused the Match Game taping to shut down and unravel. So much for that comparison, though it was for a much different reason than the typical Endemol issues.[/quote]
The difference is the Match Game situation being an isolated incident, and so notable that it turned into an anecdote. Most traditional game shows had occasional screwups that caused stops, and even in the modern era, shows like Jeopardy and Hollywood Squares would think nothing of stopping for a moment if there was a problem. The Endemol mindset is that a game can be done in bits and pieces and then put together in editing, and that stops can be done for the tiniest of reasons, like redoing a host's line reading.
There's no question that the ultimate result -- when done correctly -- is a slicker product than it would be otherwise. The question is whether it makes the show any better. I personally think a lot of editing sucks the immediacy out of a game show, and that one of the great appeals of a show like that is the sense that it's happening in the moment.
[/quote]
And I would personally love it if the computer that runs the "DOND" board broke down and that they would have to bring out a big piece of cardboard on an easel with the amounts written on it in Magic Marker, with Howie crossing each one out with another Magic Marker as each case opened--not to mention the Banker holding up a huge card with the offer written in Magic Marker from his booth. That to me would be, if not great television, still very entertaining, because it's the feeling that something is actually happening and not being processed.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'138912\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 02:46 PM\']
And I would personally love it if the computer that runs the "DOND" board broke down and that they would have to bring out a big piece of cardboard on an easel with the amounts written on it in Magic Marker, with Howie crossing each one out with another Magic Marker as each case opened--not to mention the Banker holding up a huge card with the offer written in Magic Marker from his booth. That to me would be, if not great television, still very entertaining, because it's the feeling that something is actually happening and not being processed.
[/quote]
It's written in stone at 30 Rock that no easel shall appear on any NBC show without Tim Russert there to assist.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'138897\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 09:32 AM\']
I personally think a lot of editing sucks the immediacy out of a game show, and that one of the great appeals of a show like that is the sense that it's happening in the moment.
[/quote]
You mean like when they tape the Audience faking all the laughs/claps/sadness/etc. at the end of a taping? Or telling you to yell 'Deal!', even if you don't think that way? Or how about when they didn't like her reaction to revealing the million, so they did it again!?
After attending a 3+ hour taping of DoND, I truly learned how staged it was (can't stand watching it anymore). Thank god I had Jeopardy! tickets for the next day. Nice to see a show 'flow' again, just as Match Game did. Part of the fun was when then set went wrong, like TPiR.
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[quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' post=\'138909\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 03:16 PM\']
(I've forgotten: did they do a re-take, or bleep Marcia's response from that show?)
[/quote]
They don't say in the documentary but I saw an "oops!" graphic cover up someone else's answer once (I think it was Charles, of all people) so I wouldn't be surprised if that happened this time.
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[quote name=\'cweaver\' post=\'138922\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 04:43 PM\']
[quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' post=\'138909\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 03:16 PM\']
(I've forgotten: did they do a re-take, or bleep Marcia's response from that show?)
[/quote]
They don't say in the documentary but I saw an "oops!" graphic cover up someone else's answer once (I think it was Charles, of all people) so I wouldn't be surprised if that happened this time.
[/quote]
I *think* I saw the ep in question where Marcia's was bleeped. I want to say both mouth and card were obscured (don't remember if the bleep was audible). Pretty sure it wasn't a retake.
Doug
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'138249\' date=\'Nov 19 2006, 10:28 AM\']
[quote name=\'aaron sica\' post=\'138234\' date=\'Nov 19 2006, 12:00 AM\']
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'138219\' date=\'Nov 18 2006, 06:25 PM\']
Richard Dawson's interviews were clearly conducted some time ago, probably around the time when GSN was just getting started and getting comments from all the icons they could get their hands on.[/quote]I would assume Gene's remarks are from about the same time?[/quote]
Yep.
[/quote]
Actually, esteemed moderator, I think there was about five years' space between the two interviews. Dawson's interview was probably, as theorized, from the beginning of GSN (It looked like it was shot in his dressing room between Feud tapings), but when GSN first aired that interview from Gene, they hyped it as being "one of his last interviews" and implied that it was done VERY close to his 1999 death,
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'138924\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 05:50 PM\']
[quote name=\'cweaver\' post=\'138922\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 04:43 PM\']
They don't say in the documentary but I saw an "oops!" graphic cover up someone else's answer once (I think it was Charles, of all people) so I wouldn't be surprised if that happened this time.
[/quote]
I *think* I saw the ep in question where Marcia's was bleeped. I want to say both mouth and card were obscured (don't remember if the bleep was audible). Pretty sure it wasn't a retake.
[/quote]
Looks like it was left in. (http://\"http://mywebpages.comcast.net/matchgame/theater/mw_oops.html\")
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that picture is photoshopped unless Marcia showed two cards
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Maybe I'm missing something, but what makes you say that?
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Silly, there's no way that MG logo was in the top right on the original airing, of course it was Photoshopped!
Actually, the large image at the bottom of that page is the first frame after the cut from Richard to Marcia, modified by no more than some color enhancement, if anything. The cameraman is in the process of zooming out, so starting with the next frame, the answer is effectively obscured by the "OOPS!"
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Well, Buzzer says that the documentary hit the "big" numbers. .7 rating and 450K households. I know this is probably lousy perspective, but CNN and ABC Family got .7 for all of October (as per CableWorld (http://\"http://www.cable360.net/cableworld/departments/ratings/0\")) and ESPN 2 and Food Network got .6
How did GSN do in October? .3 (better than 3 networks) and 198K (better than 6). I'm thinking that will improve this month purely on the documentary, but considering practically all the originals were in reruns or pulled by then, I'm not so sure.
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Near the end of the broadcast, I discovered some real food for thought. It was stated that the three attempts to revive MG--two without Rayburn hosting--didn't do well and were soon dropped. This proves that just because the original version of a game was a long-running classic (although in this instance, it was the second version), that doesn't mean that one should stick to some unofficial rule that only the classics are worth bringing back in new incarnations and that certain lesser games should be left to wallow in eternal obscurity.
A perfect example of the latter was Second Chance, whose format could have could have been written off as disastrous and not worth refining and reviving. But of course, its creators DID refine it, and it was indeed revived by another network as Press Your Luck, which became, at least, a respectable and well-remembered show at a time when games gradually starting to disappear from network daytime.
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Nitpick, but the NBC version ran slightly longer than the CBS version.
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[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'139156\' date=\'Nov 30 2006, 01:45 AM\']
How did GSN do in October? .3 (better than 3 networks) and 198K (better than 6). I'm thinking that will improve this month purely on the documentary, but considering practically all the originals were in reruns or pulled by then, I'm not so sure.
[/quote]
It might improve slightly, but mathematically it won't be that much of a change. For one hour to bump a 3-hour, 30-day rating just 0.1 the special would have had to been at least 1.3. I don't think GSN has ever crossed 1.0 for any one hour. Plus GSN will probably down a little bit anyway because of first-run competition on the networks.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'139184\' date=\'Nov 30 2006, 01:12 PM\']
Nitpick, but the NBC version ran slightly longer than the CBS version.
[/quote]
On the other hand, the second version (as it was called) didn't confine its run to CBS, it ran three more years in syndication. That combined run outlasted the original, NBC, two-celebrity-four-civilian format by two years.
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[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'139193\' date=\'Nov 30 2006, 01:06 PM\'] I don't think GSN has ever crossed 1.0 for any one hour. [/quote]
If "ever" means this month, I would tend to agree, but over 12 years, I would think that either Big Bucks or the first batch of originals in 2K1 would put them over the 1.0 mark
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[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'139262\' date=\'Dec 1 2006, 03:56 PM\']
[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'139193\' date=\'Nov 30 2006, 01:06 PM\'] I don't think GSN has ever crossed 1.0 for any one hour. [/quote]
If "ever" means this month, I would tend to agree, but over 12 years, I would think that either Big Bucks or the first batch of originals in 2K1 would put them over the 1.0 mark
[/quote]
You sir, are correct. I am wrong. Big Bucks had a 1.8 in its initial showing, although its 18-34 was 0.9. You may do the happy dance of your choice. Source: WebArchive.org (http://\"http://web.archive.org/web/20030713200101/http://www.gameshownetwork.com/gsn_press_article.php?press_id=98\")
--Mike
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[quote name=\'DjohnsonCB\' post=\'139181\' date=\'Nov 30 2006, 08:44 AM\']
It was stated that the three attempts to revive MG--two without Rayburn hosting--didn't do well and were soon dropped.[/quote]
I think the one small clip they showed from the Burger Match Game showed exactly why it failed. Nowadays, nothing is edgy and it's just no fun when they know they want the sexual answers. I remember one awful question about "Viagra Falls". Horrible.
//Ironically, at the time (I was 10), and I didn't have GSN, and this one was my first MG. Can't believe that I ever thought it was 'good'.
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I really enjoyed the special, but thought they were too hard on Richard.
Of *course* he was unhappy being just a panelist on MG, while he was the head honcho on Feud. Does a manager go work in the mailroom on weekends after he's promoted?
And Rayburn's daughter was harsh, implying he was a nothing, when he was very popular, and had the #1 show with FF. He certainly was a big part of that success.
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[quote name=\'Gromit\' post=\'139397\' date=\'Dec 2 2006, 09:26 PM\']
Of *course* he was unhappy being just a panelist on MG, while he was the head honcho on Feud. Does a manager go work in the mailroom on weekends after he's promoted?
[/quote]
Bill Cullen never seemed to have a problem with it. Nor Gene Rayburn, for that matter.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'139400\' date=\'Dec 2 2006, 09:48 PM\']
Bill Cullen never seemed to have a problem with it. Nor Gene Rayburn, for that matter.
[/quote]
Nor Bob Barker, and many other people who had great shows.
It comes down to the fact that he had an ego, and wanted to call the shots (after all, he did on FF). He still did the MG gig because everyone could call his name. When the Star Wheel came, he was greatly insulted and then he left. Remember, this was a MG documentary, and in the context of MG, he was a jerk at the end.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'139400\' date=\'Dec 2 2006, 10:48 PM\']
Bill Cullen never seemed to have a problem with it. Nor Gene Rayburn, for that matter.
[/quote]
I certainly don't know the history as well as some here, so please fill this out a little.
Which shows were Cullen regularly hosting, and simultaneously a contracted regular panelist on?
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[quote name=\'Gromit\' post=\'139402\' date=\'Dec 3 2006, 01:59 AM\']
I certainly don't know the history as well as some here, so please fill this out a little.
Which shows were Cullen regularly hosting, and simultaneously a contracted regular panelist on?
[/quote]
Cullen hosted a number of shows (from The Price is Right to Eye Guess and then some) while he was a regular panelist on I've Got a Secret, and plenty more (Three on a Match, The $25,000 Pyramid to name only two) during his years as a regular on the 1970s version of To Tell the Truth.
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I rewatched the last part of the documentary and something caught my eye. It seemed that there were *three* players playing MG. Can anyone shed some light on the subject?
Thanks,
Ryan :)
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[quote name=\'vtown7\' post=\'139413\' date=\'Dec 3 2006, 08:14 AM\']
I rewatched the last part of the documentary and something caught my eye. It seemed that there were *three* players playing MG. Can anyone shed some light on the subject?
[/quote]
That was the pilot for MG/HS. (Which is also, apparently, the only episode Alex McNeil bothered to watch before he wrote the show's entry in Total Television, since he notes that MG had three contestants.)
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I haven't yet watched the docu, but don't you think the death of Bob Crane would have affected Richard in some way? IIRC, his change of mood on MG happened around the same time his Hogan's Heroes co-star was murdered.
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[quote name=\'cweaver\' post=\'139405\' date=\'Dec 3 2006, 01:07 AM\']
[quote name=\'Gromit\' post=\'139402\' date=\'Dec 3 2006, 01:59 AM\']
Which shows were Cullen regularly hosting, and simultaneously a contracted regular panelist on?[/quote]
Cullen hosted a number of shows (from The Price is Right to Eye Guess and then some) while he was a regular panelist on I've Got a Secret, and plenty more (Three on a Match, The $25,000 Pyramid to name only two) during his years as a regular on the 1970s version of To Tell the Truth.[/quote]
The specific example of why Richard Dawson is no Bill Cullen would be your first one. Like Richard, Bill was popular in game show circles but not a household name when he started on I've Got A Secret. Like Richard, a few years after toiling on a G-T panel, G-T rewarded Bill with his own show that became a smash hit and made him a huge star. And that's where the similarities end, because Bill continued on IGAS showing all the enthusiasm he ever had while both shows continued to perform well for years.
And Gromit, here's a look at a timeline I drew up (http://\"http://userdata.acd.net/ottinger/cullen/timeline.htm\") that shows just how many different series Bill hosted while serving as a regular panelist on both IGAS and TTTT.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'139416\' date=\'Dec 3 2006, 10:53 AM\']
The specific example of why Richard Dawson is no Bill Cullen would be your first one.[/quote]
While that's certainly true, one of the other posters made a remark about a manager not going to work in the mail room, and Cullen's years on To Tell the Truth especially refute that argument.
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[quote name=\'ChrisLambert!\' post=\'139414\' date=\'Dec 3 2006, 10:16 AM\']
[quote name=\'vtown7\' post=\'139413\' date=\'Dec 3 2006, 08:14 AM\']
I rewatched the last part of the documentary and something caught my eye. It seemed that there were *three* players playing MG. Can anyone shed some light on the subject?
[/quote]
That was the pilot for MG/HS. (Which is also, apparently, the only episode Alex McNeil bothered to watch before he wrote the show's entry in Total Television, since he notes that MG had three contestants.)
[/quote]
Could anyone make out who was on the panel? I could see Bill Daily in top-middle and Tom Poston in bottom-middle.
Brendan