The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: alfonzos on January 17, 2007, 03:37:08 PM
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WCBS web site (http://\"http://wcbstv.com/slideshows/local_slideshow_017000628/view?slide=64\")
Too bad so many of them are taken out of the context of game shows.
BTW, what game is Jack Clark seen as hosting?
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[quote name=\'alfonzos\' post=\'143610\' date=\'Jan 17 2007, 03:37 PM\']
WCBS web site (http://\"http://wcbstv.com/slideshows/local_slideshow_017000628/view?slide=64\")
Too bad so many of them are taken out of the context of game shows.
BTW, what game is Jack Clark seen as hosting?
[/quote]
Unaired pilot, "The $10,000 Sweep."
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Funny how some of those come from fansites. That Jack Clark grab is a blown-up version of a picture I have of him in my "$10,000 Sweep" review. And there are obviously some from that one Match Game site whose official title escapes me.
-Jason
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Nice little thing.
An unauthorized commentary. May spoil the slide show for some of you, but still.
1) Nice to see Rafferty get some respect here...didn't know anyone outside the fandom still remembered who the hell he was. Maybe they got the pic from a fansite, but still.
2) Anne Robinson looks scary.
3) "Fear Factor" is not a game show.
4) Can someone please explain how J.D. Roth is a notable game show host?
5) Replace the name with Ryan Seacrest, add "because AI is not a game show", and you'd see my question again.
6) Where or when was the Marc Summers pic taken?
7) Don't get me wrong, I liked Peter Tomarken and all...but there's a reason why I don't like closeups that much.
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The picture of Rafferty came from here. (http://\"http://www.gameshow-galaxy.net/block2.htm\")
The picture of Marc is of him hosting one of GSN's live tours. Do a search for "Get Schooled Tour" for some more succinct info, but basically they went to malls picking people from the audience to play a simple Q & A game where the eventual overall winner got $10,000.
And "Fear Factor" is pretty clearly a game show in my book. It's a game show with reality trappings, just as "Love Connection" is a dating show with game show trappings - hence why each gets called the other.
In the grand scheme of things, how is Jack Clark a notable host? He only had a couple of shows, with "Cross-Wits" lasting the longest (albeit a seemingly phantom run like "Concentration" in the 70s). Ryan Seacrest did do a few legitimate game shows before AI, as the site lists.
-Jason
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Jack's "Cross-Wits" lasted for 4 1/2 years, "Dealers Choice" for almost 2 years, plus he announced for all the major packagers, save H-Q. I think that is sufficient.
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My bit was more of a rebuttal to tpirfan28 - I love Jack, and all of the stories I hear about his professionalism and dedication further ensure why he should be remembered.
-Jason
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[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'143631\' date=\'Jan 17 2007, 05:24 PM\']
My bit was more of a rebuttal to tpirfan28 - I love Jack, and all of the stories I hear about his professionalism and dedication further ensure why he should be remembered.
-Jason
[/quote]
?
Is this a sign that I've arrived? That I can pose an argument without actually posting? :)
(Yes...I do realize that he didn't mean me. Just a little friendly banter.)
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Whoops, too many Halls. Sorry.
-Jason
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[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'143625\' date=\'Jan 17 2007, 01:50 PM\']
"Love Connection" is a dating show with game show trappings
[/quote]
Love Connection is not a game show. Frankly, I'm not sure where you even see trappings.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'143646\' date=\'Jan 17 2007, 06:43 PM\']
Love Connection is not a game show. Frankly, I'm not sure where you even see trappings.
[/quote]
Didn't say it was. Just how "Fear Factor" is muddied by having side-interviews and the like (hallmarks of reality TV), LC has a game show-type opening, live & loud studio audience and a seasoned game show host doing the interviews with the daters. I'm sure the only reason people ever called it a game show is because of those things. If it were produced with an instrumental intro, the host talking to the camera alone in a studio, etc. - there might not be as much confusion.
-Jason
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'143618\' date=\'Jan 17 2007, 03:07 PM\']
3) "Fear Factor" is not a game show.
[/quote]
In your opinion. When people are involved in a competition for cash/prizes without outside influences (such as American Idol), I don't see how it can't be considered a game show.
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Nice and unexpected to see that Vin Scully made it on that list.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'143658\' date=\'Jan 17 2007, 05:50 PM\']
When people are involved in a competition for cash/prizes without outside influences (such as American Idol), I don't see how it can't be considered a game show.
[/quote]
Again: the Super Bowl.
(Just stop trying, folks. You're never going to be able to define it.)
/oh, wait, you said _without_ outside influences....
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'143669\' date=\'Jan 17 2007, 07:09 PM\'](Just stop trying, folks. You're never going to be able to define it.)[/quote]It's similar to that Supreme Court case which I can't remember: I know a game show when I see it. And I can't win $100,000 by swearing a blue streak. (Though I'm sure some mole from Enema-all is reading this, and Swear For A Million will be on the NBC schedule next Fall.)
/oh, wait, you said _without_ outside influences....
Even if Seattle gets back to the Super Bowl, I don't think XL will ever leave the Puget Sound consciousness. Ever.
/With your host, George Carlin!
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' date=\'Jan 17 2007, 10:52 PM\']It's similar to that Supreme Court case which I can't remember: I know a game show when I see it.[/quote]
For the two people who might care: "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case [Les Amants] is not that." --Justice Potter Stewart, Jacobellis v. Ohio, 1964
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Wow, what a half-assed piece of work.
EDIT: I only saw about half the photos. More complete than I thought, but still a waste of somebody's time. (I don't think I saw Art James, however.)
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'143672\' date=\'Jan 17 2007, 07:52 PM\']
(Though I'm sure some mole from Enema-all is reading this, and Swear For A Million will be on the NBC schedule next Fall.)
[/quote]
I'd retire on my winnings. :)
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'143679\' date=\'Jan 17 2007, 11:44 PM\']
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'143672\' date=\'Jan 17 2007, 07:52 PM\']
(Though I'm sure some mole from Enema-all is reading this, and Swear For A Million will be on the NBC schedule next Fall.)
[/quote]
I'd retire on my winnings. :)
[/quote]
Court shows are not game shows. Well, except for "Guilty or Innocent" which was a docudrama-game show.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'143683\' date=\'Jan 17 2007, 09:49 PM\']
Well, except for "Guilty or Innocent" which was a docudrama-game show.
[/quote]
A gameudockery? :)
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'143683\' date=\'Jan 17 2007, 09:49 PM\']Court shows are not game shows. [/quote]How did you get to this conclusion? All I said was "I'm reminded of the Supreme Court case..." that Steve so graciously looked up for me. Nowhere was there mention of court shows and game shows being synonymous.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'143685\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 01:13 AM\']
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'143683\' date=\'Jan 17 2007, 09:49 PM\']Court shows are not game shows. [/quote]How did you get to this conclusion? All I said was "I'm reminded of the Supreme Court case..." that Steve so graciously looked up for me. Nowhere was there mention of court shows and game shows being synonymous.
[/quote]
It's just a play on the word swear. "Swear for a Million" would be an apt title for a court show, if the court shows ever succumb to "mo money syndrome." :)
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To whoever asked about J.D. Roth being a notable host, I give you these shows:
Fun House(which ISTR after 15+ years)
Masters of the Maze(that lasted just that short season. I kinda liked it)
Zooventures on Animal Planet(IIRC, that was the last one he's done unless I'm missing one)
Granted, he's not a bad host, but definitely not notable in terms of quantity that's for sure.
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[quote name=\'Craig Karlberg\' post=\'143696\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 01:18 AM\'][/quote]
Don't ever change.
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[quote name=\'Craig Karlberg\' post=\'143696\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 04:18 AM\']
To whoever asked about J.D. Roth being a notable host, I give you these shows:
Fun House(which ISTR after 15+ years)
Masters of the Maze(that lasted just that short season. I kinda liked it)
Zooventures on Animal Planet(IIRC, that was the last one he's done unless I'm missing one)
Granted, he's not a bad host, but definitely not notable in terms of quantity that's for sure.
[/quote]
Way to contradict yourself, Karlberg. Try to shoot me down, then agree with me at the same time.
[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'143658\' date=\'Jan 17 2007, 08:50 PM\']
[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'143618\' date=\'Jan 17 2007, 03:07 PM\']
3) "Fear Factor" is not a game show.
[/quote]
In your opinion. When people are involved in a competition for cash/prizes without outside influences (such as American Idol), I don't see how it can't be considered a game show.
[/quote]
Flawless logic, Mark. By that same token, I can say belching contests, the Pillsbury Bake-Off, and the between inning contests at Yogi Berra Stadium are game shows too. The fact that I can doesn't mean I do.
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JD Roth was a significant host in the terms of the kid at WBCS' interactive department who put together that slideshow and remembered watching "Fun House" every day. Flimsy, but there you go.
And someone around here once made the apt description of "Fear Factor" as "'Beat the Clock' on steroids." Maybe it's not our kind of show, but it's a game show nonetheless.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'143723\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 12:39 PM\']
And someone around here once made the apt description of "Fear Factor" as "'Beat the Clock' on steroids." Maybe it's not our kind of show, but it's a game show nonetheless.
[/quote]
And I say you're wrong. "Fear Factor" is NOT a game show. It's a bad reality show, nothing more.
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'143756\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 01:58 PM\']
[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'143723\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 12:39 PM\']
And someone around here once made the apt description of "Fear Factor" as "'Beat the Clock' on steroids." Maybe it's not our kind of show, but it's a game show nonetheless.
[/quote]
And I say you're wrong. "Fear Factor" is NOT a game show. It's a bad reality show, nothing more.
[/quote]
Well, now.
You're disagreeing with nearly everyone in this thread. What happens to be your personal definition of a game show?
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Have to agree with Chris here - no real way to define it without leaving it open for some weird thing to slip in like "People's Court" or "Iron Chef." Know-it-when-I-see-it seems to prevail.
-Jason
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'143759\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 03:11 PM\']
[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'143756\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 01:58 PM\']
[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'143723\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 12:39 PM\']
And someone around here once made the apt description of "Fear Factor" as "'Beat the Clock' on steroids." Maybe it's not our kind of show, but it's a game show nonetheless.
[/quote]
And I say you're wrong. "Fear Factor" is NOT a game show. It's a bad reality show, nothing more.
[/quote]
Well, now.
You're disagreeing with nearly everyone in this thread. What happens to be your personal definition of a game show?
[/quote]
Just because YOU don't agree with me doesn't give you a reason to be a snark, Odor. Oh, wait. You don't need any reason.
I subscribe to the "believe it when I see it" theory. Because I don't see any game show elements in "Fear Factor" other than the $50,000 prize, I don't believe it is one.
(And I consider "Iron Chef" to be more of a game show than "Fear Factor," even though neither one really are.)
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'143762\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 12:33 PM\']
Just because YOU don't agree with me doesn't give you a reason to be a snark, Odor. Oh, wait. You don't need any reason.
[/quote]
QFI.
/that's "quoted for irony"
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Love Connection must be a game show.
Chuck Woolery is a game show host. So if Chuck's on it, it's a game show.
His talk show was a game show. Audience, applause, announcer, music.
Chuck guested on a week of Romance Theatre shows.
Therefore, Romance Theatre is a game show.
And Louis Jourdan is a game show host.
Johnny Gilbert is a game show announcer.
Johnny Gilbert announced on Dinah!
Dinah!, therefore, is a game show.
Stu Billett aided in the creation of Split Second.
Split Second is a game show.
Stu also aided in the creation of The People's Court.
So it's a game show.
Stu even said it was (Congrefs V, July 16th 2006).
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'143756\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 02:58 PM\'][quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'143723\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 12:39 PM\']And someone around here once made the apt description of "Fear Factor" as "'Beat the Clock' on steroids." Maybe it's not our kind of show, but it's a game show nonetheless.[/quote]And I say you're wrong. "Fear Factor" is NOT a game show. It's a bad reality show, nothing more.[/quote]
I think you'll find the "BtC on steroids" comment was mine, so it's somewhat mystifying to me that PYLDude can't (or, more likely, refuses to) see the obvious game show elements. If we've proven anything here over the years, it's that no one perfect definition decides what is or is not a game show. And heck, even NBC would like you to call it a "reality" show because in today's climate, that sounds a lot cooler.
Still, in my mind (and obviously in many others), there's precious little difference between what people try to accomplish on Beat the Clock and what people try to accomplish on Fear Factor. Do the task faster than anybody else, win the prize. If in your particular reality, the differences of being outdoors or of being an hour long or of not providing Rice-A-Roni to the runners-up are significant, then good for you. I don't see how that makes the rest of us "wrong".
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Nail on the head. And I'd like to reiterate I never said LC was a game show, Don's joke and Chris' reply notwithstanding.
-Jason
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It must be the mechanism, because "Singles select a date from three potential choices" could be a description of both LC and DG.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'143783\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 04:09 PM\']
It must be the mechanism, because "Singles select a date from three potential choices" could be a description of both LC and DG.
[/quote]
The difference, as I have said before, is that the selection process happens on-camera on DG, while the mass majority of it on LC happens on the "contestant's" couch at his/her home.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'143781\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 06:18 PM\']
Still, in my mind (and obviously in many others), there's precious little difference between what people try to accomplish on Beat the Clock and what people try to accomplish on Fear Factor. Do the task faster than anybody else, win the prize. If in your particular reality, the differences of being outdoors or of being an hour long or of not providing Rice-A-Roni to the runners-up are significant, then good for you. I don't see how that makes the rest of us "wrong".
[/quote]
The last part of that sounds like someone I used to know on an old message board, but I digress. (For the record, I always thought Rice-A-Roni sucked as a game show prize.)
I could care less if a competition show is an hour long. If I'm to take your "my particular reality" tidbit seriously, that would disqualify Millionaire, Greed, TPIR, and others in the past that have felt the need to go to an hour.
The competition factor is present in almost all of these game-based reality shows (like Fear Factor, Survivor, TAR, and others). The thing that separates them from game shows is the snippets in between the actual competition, like interviews and such. Granted, at least one game show that I can think of off the top of my head had interview snippets in between competition (Weakest Link), but in most of these shows, like Fear Factor, there's very little competition, and they need to find filler somehow- which takes them away from the game show and into the reality show.
It's just a matter of opinion. You (and the others) believe you're right. I don't. But can we at least agree to disagree on it, for now?
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'143816\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 08:25 PM\']
The thing that separates them from game shows is the snippets in between the actual competition, like interviews and such.
[/quote]
Studio 7.
But we thank you for your participation.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'143821\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 11:41 PM\']
[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'143816\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 08:25 PM\']
The thing that separates them from game shows is the snippets in between the actual competition, like interviews and such.
[/quote]
Studio 7.
But we thank you for your participation.
[/quote]
You didn't read the rest of the statement, did you Chris? I did say that there were exceptions.
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'143822\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 08:44 PM\']
You didn't read the rest of the statement, did you Chris? I did say that there were exceptions.
[/quote]
Yes, I did. I'm just saying that it's a patently stupid theory at its surface.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'143824\' date=\'Jan 19 2007, 12:46 AM\']
[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'143822\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 08:44 PM\']
You didn't read the rest of the statement, did you Chris? I did say that there were exceptions.
[/quote]
Yes, I did. I'm just saying that it's a patently stupid theory at its surface.
[/quote]
That's your opinion, and you're more than entitled to it. I just happen to believe in something else.
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Actually, I had an epiphany on what makes Love Connection a game show: Pick the same date as the audience picks for you, and you win a second date at the show's expense.
The first date is all preamble.
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[quote name=\'ChrisLambert!\' post=\'143826\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 09:50 PM\']
Actually, I had an epiphany on what makes Love Connection a game show: Pick the same date as the audience picks for you, and you win a second date at the show's expense.
The first date is all preamble.
[/quote]
Except that's not necessarily a prize, if the date sucked. Plus, the "contestant" is asked to pick who he wants to go out with, the audience is the one trying to guess who he picked - and the audience receives nothing whether they are right or wrong.
Love Connection is not a game show.
[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'143825\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 09:49 PM\']
That's your opinion, and you're more than entitled to it. I just happen to believe in something else.
[/quote]
So does Craig Karlberg.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'143827\' date=\'Jan 19 2007, 12:54 AM\']
[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'143825\' date=\'Jan 18 2007, 09:49 PM\']
That's your opinion, and you're more than entitled to it. I just happen to believe in something else.
[/quote]
So does Craig Karlberg.
[/quote]
Too far, Chris.
Just because I have a differing opinion doesn't mean that I should be labeled anything NEAR Karlberg. I respect your opinion and the rest of those who believe that Fear Factor and shows like it are game shows. I'd appreciate it if you respected mine and didn't instantly assume that I was as an illogical person as Karlberg appears to be with a lot of his posts.
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What makes this whole 'discussion' absurd is that you're asking everyone involved to use the same definition as you are, and clearly that's not happening. Even worse, the definitions being used have so many exceptions that they stop becoming rules. I know where I draw the line as to what a game show is, and what ain't, and unless presented with overwhelming evidence and the threat of physical harm to my carcass, I'm going to stick by it.
And another thing: the phrase "reality show" is a complete lie. None of the situations posed are "real" in the least. Have any of you been marooned on an island where you voted people off of the island instead of say, gutting them for organ meat? Or being presented with twenty-five nubile lasses who will unashamedly throw themselves at you for the possibility of a promise of marriage?
(You in the back, put your hand down. Smart ass.)
No. None of this is real in the least. I'm happy to make a division of competitions and "other," because for the most part I don't watch the "other." This isn't "Hey, isn't Pat O'Brien a great guy?" (and yes, he really is!) because we're all in on the joke. This hasn't been funny for years. All we're doing is spinning the wheels and sinking in mud. After all, in the end, what do we get out of any "solution" to the question?
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'143829\' date=\'Jan 19 2007, 01:10 AM\']
What makes this whole 'discussion' absurd is that you're asking everyone involved to use the same definition as you are, and clearly that's not happening. Even worse, the definitions being used have so many exceptions that they stop becoming rules. I know where I draw the line as to what a game show is, and what ain't, and unless presented with overwhelming evidence and the threat of physical harm to my carcass, I'm going to stick by it.[/quote]
As would I, which is the point that I think has gotten lost here. My definition of a reality show differs from yours, as I'm sure it differs from others. Granted, my criteria are different (and admittedly a little confusing), but they still help me form my opinion.
And another thing: the phrase "reality show" is a complete lie. None of the situations posed are "real" in the least. Have any of you been marooned on an island where you voted people off of the island instead of say, gutting them for organ meat? Or being presented with twenty-five nubile lasses who will unashamedly throw themselves at you for the possibility of a promise of marriage?
No. None of this is real in the least. I'm happy to make a division of competitions and "other," because for the most part I don't watch the "other." This isn't "Hey, isn't Pat O'Brien a great guy?" (and yes, he really is!) because we're all in on the joke. This hasn't been funny for years. All we're doing is spinning the wheels and sinking in mud. After all, in the end, what do we get out of any "solution" to the question?
I was waiting for someone to say something about the term "reality show" being a lie.
What do we get out of the "solutions," as you so put them? Other than discussion fodder, nothing. Will someone come out and give a true definition of what a game show must entail? Not really, because we all have our opinions one way or another. The truth is, as long as someone has an opinion on the matter (regardless of whether it's a well-thought out one or one that is illogical), the discussion will continue. I've made my point, and won't expand on it any further. But who's to say that someone else won't have something to say about the so-called "solutions?" You can't stop people from having opinions, no matter how misguided, thoughtless, or smart they are (speaking generally here, of course).
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Oh, oops. I didn't mean for that to be directed at you, it was more of a general musing. If by your own admission, your criteria are confusing, wouldn't you want to try to refine your thesis? It's your own dime, to be sure, but I always try to do that whenever I take a position.
(I suppose the whole bit about squashing the open exchange of ideas was silly, but you never know, if the moderators say enough is enough, then it is in fact enough. I doubt it will ever come to that, though.)
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'143832\' date=\'Jan 19 2007, 01:29 AM\']
Oh, oops. I didn't mean for that to be directed at you, it was more of a general musing. If by your own admission, your criteria are confusing, wouldn't you want to try to refine your thesis? It's your own dime, to be sure, but I always try to do that whenever I take a position.
[/quote]
You're right, I shouldn't have assumed that was directed at me. I should have been a little more clearer on which criterium (right?) I admitted might have been a little confusing (the snippet one), as well, just so it didn't look like I was just throwing things out there like Craig Karlberg.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'143829\' date=\'Jan 19 2007, 12:10 AM\']
What makes this whole 'discussion' absurd is that you're asking everyone involved to use the same definition as you are, and clearly that's not happening. Even worse, the definitions being used have so many exceptions that they stop becoming rules. I know where I draw the line as to what a game show is, and what ain't, and unless presented with overwhelming evidence and the threat of physical harm to my carcass, I'm going to stick by it.
And another thing: the phrase "reality show" is a complete lie. None of the situations posed are "real" in the least. Have any of you been marooned on an island where you voted people off of the island instead of say, gutting them for organ meat? Or being presented with twenty-five nubile lasses who will unashamedly throw themselves at you for the possibility of a promise of marriage?[/quote]
Perhaps the proper term should be "unscripted," since none of these shows involve paid actors reading lines--but then we could argue about that.
Another thing is that the term "reality" is used to apply to so many things, from shows like Sundance's "One Punk Under God," which is essentially a documentary series about the life of Jim Bakker's lip-studded, tattooed preacher son, to fly-on-the-walls like "Cops," to makeover shows like "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition," which is a document of an arranged house construction, to Penn & Teller's Showtime "BS!" show, which is more like an opinionated comedy newsmagazine, to the competition shows like "Survivor"/"Amazing Race" etc. to the talent shows like "Idol"/"Dancing"/"One That I Want." Some of it may be more based in reality than others, (although all bets are always off whenever cameras are involved). "Reality" has just become a lazy term to describe anything that's not a bunch of actors working off a script on a set or people sitting around chatting on a set.
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Uh oh. Here is another slide show: Top Twenty Hosts (http://\"http://www.nbc11.com/slideshow/entertainment/10785563/detail.html?qs=1;s=1;p=news&dm=ss&tn=b\")
The person doing the ranking confuses the quality of the show with the quality of the host. There is someone very notable missing from the list and that is just a crime against nature!
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[quote name=\'alfonzos\' post=\'143872\' date=\'Jan 19 2007, 12:14 PM\']
Uh oh. Here is another slide show: Top Twenty Hosts (http://\"http://www.nbc11.com/slideshow/entertainment/10785563/detail.html?qs=1;s=1;p=news&dm=ss&tn=b\")
The person doing the ranking confuses the quality of the show with the quality of the host. There is someone very notable missing from the list and that is just a crime against nature!
[/quote]
Welcome to the party (http://\"http://gameshow.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=12233&view=findpost&p=143800\"). Apparently you missed out on the hors d'oeurves.