The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Britgirl57 on February 19, 2007, 12:54:03 PM
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I am in search of a couple of very early (probably 1958) episodes of Concentration hosted by Hugh Downs featuring my father (a bearded Brit) as a contestant. He is celebrating his 80th birthday in April and I would love to be able to surprise him with a video of his appearance on the show. I understand that NBC destroyed most of the early episodes of the show but I'm hoping against hope that someone might know if any of these episodes escaped the mass destruction or were copied and could point me in the right direction to find them. I'm sorry to be so vague about the dates. Can anybody out there help me out?
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[quote name=\'Britgirl57\' post=\'146329\' date=\'Feb 19 2007, 12:54 PM\']
I am in search of a couple of very early (probably 1958) episodes of Concentration hosted by Hugh Downs featuring my father (a bearded Brit) as a contestant. He is celebrating his 80th birthday in April and I would love to be able to surprise him with a video of his appearance on the show. I understand that NBC destroyed most of the early episodes of the show but I'm hoping against hope that someone might know if any of these episodes escaped the mass destruction or were copied and could point me in the right direction to find them. I'm sorry to be so vague about the dates. Can anybody out there help me out?
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There is good news, bad news, and unconfirmed news on this score.
Yes, NBC destroyed a ton of its early stuff, including practically all episodes of the original "Jeopardy!" and "The Match Game." But I was startled - and delighted - to hear from other people on this board that, for whatever reason, NBC held onto its episodes of "Concentration" and ended up donating the whole kit and keboodle to the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C.
I've been meaning to visit the library to confirm this first-hand (I live in the D.C. area).
So the good (albeit unconfirmed) news is: Most, if not all, of the original "Concentration" episodes reportedly exist.
The news is downhill from there. Supposedly, the tapes, kinescopes or whatever have not been catalogued, and as such are well-nigh impossible for outside researchers to get at.
The thing is, if your father's episode does exist, and if the LC would be willing to copy it for you, how much would you be willing to spend? For reasons too boring to get into, I once made inquiries about obtaining a copy of "Ted Mack and the Original Amateur Hour" from the LC. Would you believe it would have cost $400? And that's a show that is more readily available to outsiders. Plus, there's the whole business of getting NBC's permission in addition to whatever machinations need to take place at the Library.
The bottom line is, you have a slim chance - which is certainly better than no chance at all. I suggest contacting the LC and asking.
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Thanks a million for that response. This gives me some hope. I live in the DC area too so will be able to check directly with the LoC. I'll face the question of money when and if I ever get to that point!
Thanks again, Mr. Buddwing.
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[quote name=\'Britgirl57\' post=\'146344\' date=\'Feb 19 2007, 02:45 PM\']
Thanks a million for that response. This gives me some hope. I live in the DC area too so will be able to check directly with the LoC. I'll face the question of money when and if I ever get to that point!
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Please let us know how it turns out - it so happens I know someone who was on the original "Concentration."
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Unfortunately, the bulk of the episodes are **not** among the assets that were donated by NBC to the LOC... they have been retained by the network.
-Kevin
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[quote name=\'TwoInchQuad\' post=\'146388\' date=\'Feb 19 2007, 08:52 PM\']
Unfortunately, the bulk of the episodes are **not** among the assets that were donated by NBC to the LOC... they have been retained by the network.
-Kevin
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Oh, %$#@! - and I thought I was being helpful.
But I am curious as to why NBC saved the shows to begin with, given all the other stuff they junked.
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[quote name=\'MrBuddwing\' post=\'146421\' date=\'Feb 20 2007, 01:30 AM\']
[quote name=\'TwoInchQuad\' post=\'146388\' date=\'Feb 19 2007, 08:52 PM\']
Unfortunately, the bulk of the episodes are **not** among the assets that were donated by NBC to the LOC... they have been retained by the network.
-Kevin
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Oh, %$#@! - and I thought I was being helpful.
But I am curious as to why NBC saved the shows to begin with, given all the other stuff they junked.
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Easy. They own "Concentration." The other game shows of the era were owned by somebody else. Even if NBC had kept the other shows, they couldn't use them. It's sorta like if a friend gave you a video tape and didn't care if you erased it. Would you keep it or erase it?
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Thanks for both of your input. I'm going to call the Library of Congress today and find out what they have - if anything - and then I'll tackle NBC. I'll let you know what I find out. At least there's a glimmer of hope that the episodes might still exist somewhere.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'146427\' date=\'Feb 20 2007, 02:16 AM\']
Easy. They own "Concentration." The other game shows of the era were owned by somebody else. Even if NBC had kept the other shows, they couldn't use them. It's sorta like if a friend gave you a video tape and didn't care if you erased it. Would you keep it or erase it?
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Depends. Does the tape have any 50-year-old episodes of Concentration on it? :-)
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Okay, so today I called the Motion Picture and and Television Reading Room at the Library of Congress, and a very helpful librarian checked and said that the LoC has five Concentration episodes from 1958 (Oct 9, 13, 14, 15 and Nov 5) and another five from 1959 (Feb 6, 12 and maybe 13 - sorry, my notes aren't clear - April 6, and August 25). Even if this material is actually "on the shelf" (i.e. available to be copied), one would still have to get NBC's permission before the LoC could do so.
I think they may have more episodes from a later period but I forgot to ask about that - sorry.
So now I'm going to a) call NBC to see if they have any other episodes from that time period and b) try desperately to find someone (anyone) from my Dad's past who might remember the specific dates when he was on the show.
I'll keep you all posted about what I find out. Thanks for all your help. I was probably insane to have started this wild goose chase in the first place but now I've got the bit between my teeth I'm determined to see it through - one way or another!
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[quote name=\'Britgirl57\' post=\'146475\' date=\'Feb 20 2007, 06:42 PM\']I'll keep you all posted about what I find out. Thanks for all your help. I was probably insane to have started this wild goose chase in the first place but now I've got the bit between my teeth I'm determined to see it through - one way or another![/quote]
Britgirl, trust me when I say that WE appreciate you doing all this legwork as well! Understanding precisely what the LOC and NBC have (and precisely what they're willing to do with it) is going to be very useful information, especially for us old-timers who have a fondness for the original Concentration.
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I was once told (I forget by whom) that the FCC ordered NBC to surrender the Downs/Clayton/McMahon episodes of Concentration to what is now Republic Pictures, part of the CBS Corporation. After she talks with NBC, Britgirl57 may want to call or write to Republic Pictures.
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Random question: would any of these shows fall under public domain in the near future? What rules govern public domain of specific episodes if the intellectual property (the format) is still "owned" by a certain group?
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[quote name=\'JamesVipond\' post=\'146539\' date=\'Feb 21 2007, 10:12 AM\']
I was once told (I forget by whom) that the FCC ordered NBC to surrender the Downs/Clayton/McMahon episodes of Concentration to what is now Republic Pictures, part of the CBS Corporation. After she talks with NBC, Britgirl57 may want to call or write to Republic Pictures.
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Barring something more substantial than "I forget by whom," Britgirl is probably best off not wasting her time going that route. Why would the FCC have that authority in the first place, never mind actually do it?
Sorry, but to me, that claim just has the "Merv ordered all the Woolery Wheel episodes erased because he hated Chuck" smell.
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Where the confusion may be happening was that ,in the early 70's the Justice Department ordered the networks to get out of the syndication business. NBC's syndication holdings (Bonanza, Get Smart, Car 54, etc.) went to National Telefilm Associates which also had possession of the Republic Pictures catalog. They later changed their name to Republic Pictures and that library in now in the hands of CBS. In 72, the CBS holdings formed what became Viacom and the ABC syndication arm's holdings were spun-off to Worldvision. What's ironic now is that Republic, Viacom and Worldvision are now under the CBS umbrella.
Not sure if "Concentration" was affected as the original never was in syndication and Victory Television distributed the Narz version. For some strange reason Victory also got a distribution credit on the Trebek version.
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[quote name=\'dzinkin\' post=\'146543\' date=\'Feb 21 2007, 07:29 AM\']
Barring something more substantial than "I forget by whom," Britgirl is probably best off not wasting her time going that route. Why would the FCC have that authority in the first place, never mind actually do it?
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Yeah, I wouldn't mind a little attribution on that myself.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'146547\' date=\'Feb 21 2007, 10:18 AM\']
Not sure if "Concentration" was affected as the original never was in syndication and Victory Television distributed the Narz version. For some strange reason Victory also got a distribution credit on the Trebek version.
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Victory had the license to produce, distribute and merchandise "Concentration," as Lorne Michaels' Broadway Video has (or partially has) the license to produce, distribute and merchandise "Saturday Night Live," both NBC properties. They chose to assign production to Goodson-Todman or Mark Goodson Productions, but it was still their property to assign, as NBC had assigned it to them. The fact that "Classic Concentration" was on NBC was no doubt due to the network having first call on any version of the show, but it may've been possible that Victory could've sold the show to someone else or put it in syndication if NBC wasn't interested.
That relationship seems to have ended, since NBCU has "Concentration" on its list of formats for overseas sales. There haven't been any new "Concentration" licensed items for a couple of years (slot machines, most likely), so I don't know if Victory's name would still appear on licensed items.
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FYI on the progress of my search - I am awaiting a reply from NBC to my e-mail regarding the existence and whereabouts of the early episodes of Concentration and I am currently frantically trying to find someone who can remember the exact dates of my father's appearances on the show, which may end up being the biggest obstacle (of many!) to me achieving this goal. Watch this space.....!
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[quote name=\'Britgirl57\' post=\'146653\' date=\'Feb 22 2007, 07:54 AM\']
I am awaiting a reply from NBC to my e-mail regarding the existence and whereabouts of the early episodes of Concentration and I am currently frantically trying to find someone who can remember the exact dates of my father's appearances on the show, which may end up being the biggest obstacle (of many!) to me achieving this goal. Watch this space.....!
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I hope I'm wrong, but I think getting past the NBC stonewall is going to be a bigger problem for you than figuring out when he was on. Because I just don't see them being willing to dub this off, even if you *could* produce an airdate.
But, again, I do hope I'm wrong.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'146656\' date=\'Feb 22 2007, 11:41 AM\']
I hope I'm wrong, but I think getting past the NBC stonewall is going to be a bigger problem for you than figuring out when he was on. Because I just don't see them being willing to dub this off, even if you *could* produce an airdate.
But, again, I do hope I'm wrong.
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Now that I'm working at an NBC affiliate, what I wouldn't give to find a back room of old film reels with some of these shows...but our station never kept anything like that. Some of the old newscasts are fun to watch though.
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[quote name=\'mitchgroff\' post=\'146657\' date=\'Feb 22 2007, 08:45 AM\']
Now that I'm working at an NBC affiliate, what I wouldn't give to find a back room of old film reels with some of these shows...but our station never kept anything like that. Some of the old newscasts are fun to watch though.
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One of the things I regret not doing when I was a the TV station was to go through the tape graveyard...if I remember correctly we had a BOATLOAD of old WML's back there, but I have no idea which version it was or if there were any rarities. I'm gonna guess there was some Classic Concentration, too, since my station was, for a little while (prior to me being there, of course; I was still in high school) in the strange position of running CC because the local NBC affiliate didn't want it for some reason.
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How about 1970-71 eps of the show, particularly from "Teen Week" or "Kids Week" or whatever it was called? Any status of the existence of those? Is it possible that those are at the LoC?
Am DYING to know!
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[quote name=\'PeterTomarkensGal\' post=\'146809\' date=\'Feb 24 2007, 04:03 PM\']
How about 1970-71 eps of the show, particularly from "Teen Week" or "Kids Week" or whatever it was called? Any status of the existence of those? Is it possible that those are at the LoC?
Am DYING to know!
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I know there's at least a week from 1971 in UCLA.
Can't remember if they're available for viewing, however.
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I talked to someone at the UCLA archive as part of my particular quest and all I know is that they have no episodes of Concentration before 1963 and those that they do have can only be viewed on-site. I didn't ask about later episodes but their phone number is: 310 206 5388 if you'd like to ask them yourself.
I'm also not clear whether or not the LoC has later episodes in its NBC archive, but since I have to talk to them again this week I'll ask and let you know. Watch this space....