The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: SteveRep on September 17, 2003, 05:37:56 PM
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Got two things to bring up involving TPIR.
1) In the pricing games, does Bob get any sort of silent communication, hand signal, clue, etc., that the pending reveal of a price is going to result in a win for the contestant? He seems to get in that \"i'm going to push the button now .... 'Wouldn't it be great if you won that _____?' ..... here we go, let's see if you've won\" stop-and-start tease mode more often before a win than a loss.
2) Any word as to which models are getting the early calls? I think Brandi and Shane deserve the first go-round.
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Got two things to bring up involving TPIR.
1) In the pricing games, does Bob get any sort of silent communication, hand signal, clue, etc., that the pending reveal of a price is going to result in a win for the contestant? He seems to get in that \"i'm going to push the button now .... 'Wouldn't it be great if you won that _____?' ..... here we go, let's see if you've won\" stop-and-start tease mode more often before a win than a loss.
I don't think so. He doesn't get any hand signals or silent communication. He might very well know the answers, but I don't think he does. He likes to play along.
2) Any word as to which models are getting the early calls? I think Brandi and Shane deserve the first go-round.
I don't think it's which ones they like the best as much as who's available when they request them. Don't expect any announcement on permanent models.
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Bob definitely does NOT get any clues about wins and losses. He has expressed during commercials that he thought a contestant had won or lost, and was surprised with the outcome of the game, which indicates he, like us, is playing along.
On the other hand, just about the entire crew (announcer included ;-) has access to the info as it is being screamed over the PL headsets. The director is told instantly after the contestant has made their decision, and the info is then broadcast loud and clear for all the folks who need to know... audio sfx, music, cameras, among them.
As of this moment Claudia remains the only regular \"Barker's Beauty\". Brandi is in rotation with folks like Shane and Rachel. There's even a Penelope, a Lanisha and a brand new Gabrielle, with more on the way; some quite lovely! ;-)
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Sep 17 2003, 05:32 PM\'] On the other hand, just about the entire crew (announcer included ;-) has access to the info as it is being screamed over the PL headsets. [/quote]
Randy, do you keep your PL headset on while you're making announcements or reading copy, or do you have some sort of mute switch, or something? I've had pieces in my ear when I was announcing sports, but they were never chattering at me when I was actually speaking, they were for me to hear the air feed and for communications during breaks. I would think it would be terribly distracting to hear director chatter while you were reading off a Showcase...
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Bob definitely does NOT get any clues about wins and losses. He has expressed during commercials that he thought a contestant had won or lost, and was surprised with the outcome of the game, which indicates he, like us, is playing along.
Thanks Randy. He's just so good at what he does that there are times I'd swear he knew beforehand, especially in a game like Temptation.
On the other hand, just about the entire crew (announcer included ;-) has access to the info as it is being screamed over the PL headsets. The director is told instantly after the contestant has made their decision, and the info is then broadcast loud and clear for all the folks who need to know... audio sfx, music, cameras, among them.
Very interesting info. I can see why all those folk would need to know.
As of this moment Claudia remains the only regular \"Barker's Beauty\". Brandi is in rotation with folks like Shane and Rachel. There's even a Penelope, a Lanisha and a brand new Gabrielle, with more on the way; some quite lovely! ;-)
You write that in almost announcer speak.
Bob: \"Randy, tell him what he could win ....\"
Randy: \"It's a brand new Gabrielle!\"
(and a case of Turtle Wax)
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I can't remember where I read it, but isn't it true that he's informed about especially close Showcase bids, so he'll know to put some drama into reading out the ARP?
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I can't remember where I read it, but isn't it true that he's informed about especially close Showcase bids, so he'll know to put some drama into reading out the ARP?
Ah, you have found the exception to the rule. The announcer keeps the audience's attention and enthusiasm on his own during the final commercial break, just before the showcase actual prices are revealed. During that break Bob meets with Roger and Phil to decide in which order to reveal the prices for maximum drama. \"In the course of that discussion the actual identity of the winners and/or losers may be discerned\" ;-)
The director is informed as to which contestant Bob will talk with first, and whether or not it's a double showcase win or double overbid. Again he passes that info along on PL for all who need to know... cameras, sfx, stage hands (which doors), lighting, etc.. A lot depends on that information, including the producers' and PAs' prep of the winner's \"posse\" so they can join him on stage. No, the friends are NOT told, but the staff must have them ready.
I listen to know if it's a double overbid. Then I know whether or not Bob will be entering \"the pit\" and shaking hands with the audience. In which case I remember NOT to shake hands with him later! ;-p
[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Sep 17 2003, 08:06 PM\']Randy, do you keep your PL headset on while you're making announcements or reading copy, or do you have some sort of mute switch, or something? I've had pieces in my ear when I was announcing sports, but they were never chattering at me when I was actually speaking, they were for me to hear the air feed and for communications during breaks. I would think it would be terribly distracting to hear director chatter while you were reading off a Showcase...[/quote]
Oh Chris, you have identified the hardest part of the job! It is wildly distracting until you develop the knack. But the announcer MUST listen because some of the chatter is directed at him... cues to start reading at the top of each prize description, and after each of those reaction shots:
(\"Announce\") \"A lovely dinette set!\" [reaction]
\"Standby announce... and... announce\") \"From Broyhill it's....\"
(\"go ahead\") \"Or would you rather have.....\"
(\"Announce\") \"A new car!\" [reaction]
(\"Wait for it.... and... announce\") \"It's Ford F150....\"
And the announcer must listen, especially during the showcases, for the \"faster\" and \"slower\" cues shouted at him (nobody in a control room has ever whispered during a show!) in order to keep the show timed. It's especially critical in those last two long spiels of the hour. There's a lot of copy there that lasts several minutes. It's the last big chance to stretch or to make up for a long show The showcases have to end with enough time (but not too much time) for the rather brief reveal, goodbye and credits. As such it's not unusual to be prodded along or told to stretch during those reads
And the announcer has to listen in order to be corrected during those crazy moments... like when the grocery items are being shot in a different order than the script (watching the monitor is critical) or like when the announcer starts reading the wrong page, or other lapses of sanity. Otherwise you'd be merrily reading the wrong copy on-and-on without a clue while everyone in the studio is screaming that you're a jerk!
\"music, push 1, ready 2, announce, and take 2, push 2, ready 1, announce, take 1, chyron, push 1, ready 2, lights, take 2, open the doors, music, announce, pan 2, ready 1, take 1, roll (vtr) A, take A, and chyron in, who wants that crappy trip, ready 3, chyron out, take 3, follow her, ready Bob, take 3, cue Bob....\"
You have to \"listen\" to it all, but only \"hear\" the stuff relevant to you. The rest you sort of filter out of your consciousness.
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Sep 17 2003,11:13 PM\']You have to \"listen\" to it all, but only \"hear\" the stuff relevant to you. The rest you sort of filter out of your consciousness.[/quote]
That makes perfect sense, now that you explain it. When I worked in TV news it was the same thing...the director is shouting readies and cues to every member of the crew, but you're only interested in the ones directed at you. It's just far easier to do that when you're not talking yourself and instead moving a camera, or opening a mic, or shoving a tape into a machine and cueing it up...
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For a number of the years in the early 1980s on TPIR you could actually hear some of the headset announcements, although very faintly, over the air, primarily when Johnny was about to speak. You could hear \"music\" and then a cue would star to play or maybe \"open doors\" and the doors would open on a car. Probably the headsets leaking out and being caught by John's mic? It seemed to happen a lot on \"Pyramid\" as well, when the show started you could hear \"music\" and then the theme would play. Just another weird observation on a board full of 'em.
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Sep 17 2003, 08:32 PM\'] The director is told instantly after the contestant has made their decision, and the info is then broadcast loud and clear for all the folks who need to know... audio sfx, music, cameras, among them. [/quote]
$1201. Over
$1100. Over
$1000. Over
$1 Number 3. Number 3. Zoom to 3.
Couldn't they call people who don't win non-winners rather than losers?
At least on H2, when they pick the wrong key, it's \"Bad key, Bad key, Bad key\", rather than Loser.
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During that break Bob meets with Roger and Phil to decide in which order to reveal the prices for maximum drama. \"In the course of that discussion the actual identity of the winners and/or losers may be discerned\" ;-)
I wonder if there are some shows where they just leave it to Bob (or even a contestant) to decide who to reveal first. I was watching a CBS rerun over the summer, and after the commercial break, Bob asked one of the contestants which one she wanted him to reveal first.
Was that just for show, or would he have taken her decision regardless? If I recall, on that show the contestant said it didn't matter.
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They probably choose to do it that way every once in a while for variety's sake, but even then it's a carefully determined decision and not nearly as devil-may-care random as it appears. They must have scenarios where the producers decide there's not much difference in which price is revealed first.
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[quote name=\'Robair\' date=\'Sep 18 2003, 05:08 AM\'] For a number of the years in the early 1980s on TPIR you could actually hear some of the headset announcements, although very faintly, over the air, primarily when Johnny was about to speak. You could hear \"music\" and then a cue would star to play or maybe \"open doors\" and the doors would open on a car. Probably the headsets leaking out and being caught by John's mic? It seemed to happen a lot on \"Pyramid\" as well, when the show started you could hear \"music\" and then the theme would play. Just another weird observation on a board full of 'em. [/quote]
The \"bleed\" on Pyramid was extreme. I heard it also, but I think I remember it as being on the New York shows. As it was prevalent with many different announcers I suspect it was not about hot headphones too close to an open mic.
I never heard it on TPIR. Does anybody have an example of the audio that they can post? It's doubtful you'd hear the control room when Rod is announcing as he wears IFBs that fit into his ears, but in the earlier days he wore those Sennheiser foam-phones that were capable of some bleed if your headphones were up loud. Dear Johnny, on the other hand, had a single earphone that he held to his ear for cues and would sometimes place on his music stand or podium during long reads. That's a scenario that's more prone to bleed, except that I recall him running his volume quite soft (he used to let me listen ;-)
For the record, I wear them Sony \"studio monitor\" closed heaphones so I can play my custom mix LOUD (just me, Bob, the one-bid mics at half volume, and a little of the music - the audience and sfx are loud enough in the house). I believe Burton gets the full program mix in one ear and the booth in the other, and is still wearing the IFBs even though we're never on camera. Paul Boland hears the full program mix on Channel 2 at 10AM (ouch, did I really say that?! Sorry, brother. Although we've never met, I hear Paul's really a nice guy. I often step over the line in pursuit of a laugh, but I'm on medication for it ;-)
Just another moment of minutiae on a board wonderfully laden with them!
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Sep 18 2003, 09:36 AM\'] I believe Burton gets the full program mix in one ear and the booth in the other, and is still wearing the IFBs even though we're never on camera. [/quote]
Oddly, I remember seeing a screenshot from the first week that he announced which must have been one of the few (if only) times a guest announcer was seen on camera, and there he was, headphones and all. When did he switch to IFB's?
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' date=\'Sep 18 2003, 03:26 AM\'] Couldn't they call people who don't win non-winners rather than losers?
[/quote]
In most control rooms, the concept of \"political correctness\" is completely and utterly foreign. (As it should be, IMO, but that should surprise nobody. :)) That, and the risk of a crewmember mixing up \"winner\" and \"non-winner\" is far greater than if you use a less-aurally-similar designation like \"loser\".
[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Sep 18 2003, 07:36 AM\']For the record, I wear them Sony \"studio monitor\" closed heaphones so I can play my custom mix LOUD [/quote]
V-6's, or the newer V-600's? I got a set of V-6's in college that I still use today, and you will pry that headset from my cold dead fingers. My brother has the V-600's, and while they seem to be lighter and possibly more comfortable for long-term wear, I still prefer my V-6's. In fact, every so often I see a store still selling them, I should pick up another pair next time I see one just to put on a shelf in case my current ones ever die...
And what is it with you former DJ's being half-deef anyhow? ;) When I was working at a rock radio station in the summer of '93, I would on occasion come in after the Grizzled Veteran who had been doing middays at that place since I was teeny. (He's still there today, in fact. Rich Berlyn. Great guy.) I would invariably forget to turn down the studio monitors when I took over, and I would invariably be blasted out of my shorts with the first few bars of AC/DC or whatever until I could force my way through the sonic shockwave to the monitor volume knob. :)
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Sep 18 2003, 10:36 AM\'] I believe Burton gets the full program mix in one ear and the booth in the other, and is still wearing the IFBs even though we're never on camera. Paul Boland hears the full program mix on Channel 2 at 10AM (ouch, did I really say that?!
Randy
tvrandywest.com [/quote]
Oooh, Good One Randy. I'm sure he's a nice guy as well, but similar to my philosophy in life, you must always go for the joke! :-)
John
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(Re: Burton) Oddly, I remember seeing a screenshot from the first week that he announced which must have been one of the few (if only) times a guest announcer was seen on camera, and there he was, headphones and all. When did he switch to IFB's?
Well, we're never in the same room at the same time, so I don't know. But Diedre (a duchess of decibels at TPIR) asked me if I wanted the IFBs \"like Burton uses\". Someone who sees him at one of the tapings can ask him all about it and post his response to this fascinating discourse ;-)
And what is it with you former DJ's being half-deef anyhow? ;)
What? Can you type louder please? Volume is like heroin, you need more every day! :-|
V-6's, or the newer V-600's?
V-6, me thinks. I'll check. Yes, they rock!!
Gotta run - we play Master Key today ;-)
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Sep 18 2003, 09:36 AM\'][quote name=\'Robair\' date=\'Sep 18 2003, 05:08 AM\'] For a number of the years in the early 1980s on TPIR you could actually hear some of the headset announcements, although very faintly, over the air. It seemed to happen a lot on \"Pyramid\" as well, when the show started you could hear \"music\" and then the theme would play. Just another weird observation on a board full of 'em. [/quote]
The \"bleed\" on Pyramid was extreme. I heard it also, but I think I remember it as being on the New York shows.[/quote]
I have on tape a pair of N.Y. episodes of Pyramid where you can hear background sounds. One is some sort of conversation which I can't make out but which could be from the control room. The other is a siren!
As an aside, it is really cool to have someone who works on a show visiting the board and telling us what goes on. Thank you so much!
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[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' date=\'Sep 18 2003, 12:14 PM\']I have on tape a pair of N.Y. episodes of Pyramid where you can hear background sounds. One is some sort of conversation which I can't make out but which could be from the control room. The other is a siren![/quote]
IIRC, the Elysse Theatre was across the street from a fire station and when the firemen got the call, you could always hear the sirens in the theater (and on the air). Dick Cavett did his show from the Elysse and made jokes about the fire truck sirens wailing during his show--once they moved a camera across the street (in the days before hand-helds were prevalent) to allow Cavett to chat with the firemen and make some mock complaining about them running the siren while he was doing his show.
I know the Elysse is long gone, but if a fire station was anywhere near the Ed Sullivan Theatre, you know Dave would be playing pranks on them all the time short of false alarms.
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You could hear Marc Breslow quite distinctly on Johnny's earphone when Lucky Seven was being played, during that pregnant pause between the emcee's cue and the appearance of the car.
Randy - how much do you rely on cues from the booth vs. your own timing instincts? Could you announce the show just as effectively without the booth? I'm surprised they don't have you on an interrupt where you would hear the booth only when the appropriate key is pressed. The production people might argue that it's too inconvenient but they're not the ones having to read announce copy and listen to camera cues at the same time.
Paul Boland hears the full program mix on Channel 2 at 10AM
In stereo where available.
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I have to say, Randy, that this is fascinating stuff, at least for me. I'd be afraid my brain would explode trying to deal with everything going on at the same time and still sound like I knew what I was doing.
This kind of discussion is why I come to this board. It's great to be able to interact with someone who is directly involved in our favorite pasttime.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Sep 18 2003, 03:58 PM\']Randy - how much do you rely on cues from the booth vs. your own timing instincts? Could you announce the show just as effectively without the booth? I'm surprised they don't have you on an interrupt where you would hear the booth only when the appropriate key is pressed. The production people might argue that it's too inconvenient but they're not the ones having to read announce copy and listen to camera cues at the same time.
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Chris, I'd be NOTHING without the genius of the director! The director is the conductor, the maestro, the master of all... he told me so himself!! ;-)
Truly, I rely on the cues and find them reassuring. With an audible cue I KNOW it's my turn, and it keeps me from having to keep one eye focused intently on the monitor while reading with the other eye to see exactly when an item/prize first enters the frame. With cues I can relax and simply dart my eyes back and forth more \"leisurely\" instead of constantly staring to check that every item is clearly visible before I announce it. But I think it's vital that I watch the reveals during the showcase reads as a second pair of eyes to be sure we're in snyc. \"Tipping the reveals\" would kill a lot of the excitement and drama of the show.
Happily I'm left to take my own cues for the \"Who's our next player\" interplay/dialogue with Bob; it keeps the conversation natural. But I get cued for all other reads so we can have perfect sync with the reveal of items/prizes. Still, I occasionally jump the cue on the reveal of one-bid items (and the car in \"Lucky 7\" and/or the money reveals for \"Plinko\", \"Grand Game\", \"Punchboard\", etc), because sometimes Bob has already thrown it to me (\"Randy, what is the next item\") and I want to avoid the \"dead air\" / delayed response that I think can be awkward. I fill with a stretch until I see the item or get the cue. I would guess that's most obvious on the \"train\" and \"tugboat\" one-bid reveals.
The only show I EVER worked with my own PL was \"Hollywood Showdown\". Associate Director Lisa Todd would cue me... it was just she and I in that cozy little set-up. Damned if I know WHY it was that way (I was on Charlie O's mic at the WOF studio at Sony for that show; perhaps Charlie gets the luxury of working that way. I never asked him). Too bad that show had so little copy. It would be sweet for a copy-intensive show like TPIR! But it's a rare luxury that makes more work for the booth. Clearly the expectation on any show is that the announcer can find his cues in the cacophony; I'd never expect to see it again. Hell, if you rent your services as a professional, union, experienced truck driver it's expected that you can handle the biggest 18-wheeler, double, cab-over-Pete with a reefer on. (I have no idea what that means, but it's on that 1970s hit record \"Convoy\")! ;-)
At TPIR the gig is clearly about me fitting into the well oiled mechanism that has been cranking so successfully with comfortable consistency for the many staffers who have worked 25+ years on the show. Besides, I'd be terribly disappointed to think that the bar had been lowered from the expectations placed on Johnny and Rod.
To those enjoying the thread, it's MY pleasure. I only wish I had this kind of internet capability and access when I was thirsting for the knowledge. I had to evade the security staff at 30 Rock until Johnny appreciated and nurtured my interest in his career.
But if you're REALLY grooving on this, gifts are accepted for my birthday on the 29th ;-))
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Sep 18 2003, 01:58 PM\'] In stereo where available. [/quote]
It's more than stereo, it's CBS StereoSound.
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And what is it with you former DJ's being half-deef anyhow? ;)
What? Can you type louder please? Volume is like heroin, you need more every day! :-|
Randy's not going deaf, he just uses selective hearing...
;-)
Josh