The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: TimK2003 on June 24, 2007, 07:55:27 PM
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Was talking to another game show savvy person at work over the weekend, and the topic of game shows on Saturday Mornings came up with a lot of unanswered questions:
1) Were there any game show pilots that were made specifically for possible Saturday Morning kids programming, but were never picked up by the networks?
2) With all the 'politically correct' Saturday Morning animated and live-action E/I shows the FCC requires stations to air (which IMHO are far less entertaining than the Saturday morning fare from the 60s & 70s that many of us grew up with), has there been any interest by networks, producers or I/E groups to try to promote/do more game shows of late?
(I did remind him of the disasters known as "Wheel 2000" and "Jep" which didn't need to be tweaked so freakin' much to adapt to kids attention and intelligence -- see Squares, Storybook -- and that may be part of the reason why the nets have shied away from them).
3) That being said, aren't game shows (with kid-sized prizes) still cheaper to make per episode than the animation and/or live-action shows on there already? And wouldn't the I/E factor be more prevalent in a game show than what's in the current Saturday Morning shows out there?
4) To sum it all up, who is more at fault in the lack of educational game shows on Saturday Mornings nowadays -- Network Executives or Game Show Producers?
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I think kids prefer cartoons. Game shows and other live action kid shows become dated after a few years, whereas Dora the Explorer and Square Pants are still in vogue. For my generation, Bugs Bunny was going strong long before "Shenanagans" and "Runaround" and long after. Good cartoons have staying power.
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Racking my brain, I can't seem to think of one game show, aired specifically on Saturday mornings, that had any long-term success. You might argue that the Nick shows from late 80s and early 90s were successful - many of us remember them and they have spawned the "Retro Nick" product lines - but these never aired on Saturday morning network TV. Perhaps if they were to have repurposed those shows like Nick used to do for CBS Saturdays (and like Disney does on ABC), then they could have enjoyed more longevity. The key to Saturdays is to repurpose for kids without cable, those kids talk their parents into getting cable (in some cases perhaps even when it is not economically sound for the family to do), and there you have one more subscriber adding to the cable advertising audience.
As for failed game shows piloted for Saturday mornings only - navigate to starcade.tv to see the JM Productions version of "Finder Keepers." I, for one, am very glad that that show never made it to air.
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[quote name=\'SwohS Emag\' post=\'155965\' date=\'Jun 24 2007, 09:53 PM\']You might argue that the Nick shows from late 80s and early 90s were successful - many of us remember them and they have spawned the "Retro Nick" product lines - but these never aired on Saturday morning network TV. Perhaps if they were to have repurposed those shows like Nick used to do for CBS Saturdays (and like Disney does on ABC), then they could have enjoyed more longevity.
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Except that CBS and Nick are no longer part of the same family, since Viacom split up in two a couple of years ago. The split was part of the reason CBS switched from Nick to DiC for Saturday morning programming last year.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'155962\' date=\'Jun 24 2007, 07:45 PM\']
I think kids prefer cartoons. Game shows and other live action kid shows become dated after a few years, whereas Dora the Explorer and Square Pants are still in vogue. For my generation, Bugs Bunny was going strong long before "Shenanigans" and "Runaround" and long after. Good cartoons have staying power.
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The above reminded me of something I'd just as soon try and forget: When NBC tried Storybook Squares on Saturdays in 1968, I watched the first installment, but went back to its ABC competition, George Of The Jungle, the following week. Not long after, my younger brother decided he wanted to watch Storybook Squares, perhaps on a regular basis, which devastated me. I figured from that point on, I'd either be forced to miss George or resign myself to having to watch it in black and white on another set. So here he was, two or three years younger than me, and feeling superior over his preference of a noncartoon show, while making me feel bad for being older and yet preferring a cartoon. He, like my sister, was of the opinion that anything animated outside of a Peanuts special was juvenile, completely overlooking the fact that George was a quality production that even grownups could enjoy.
On the other hand, I did enjoy watching Shenanigans every week, but that was largely due to its huge tie-in with Milton Bradley. Something to think about.
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I tend to remember a game show on Saturday mornings on NBC, early to mid 70's with Paul Winchell. I can't remember the name but it would work today, with the FCC guidelines. I think it was a tame (and slime-less) version of Double Dare (Marc Summers not Mr. Trebek version).
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[quote name=\'toddyo\' post=\'155969\' date=\'Jun 24 2007, 10:54 PM\']
I tend to remember a game show on Saturday mornings on NBC, early to mid 70's with Paul Winchell. I can't remember the name but it would work today, with the FCC guidelines. I think it was a tame (and slime-less) version of Double Dare (Marc Summers not Mr. Trebek version).
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That would be Runaround, where the kids (9 of them?) competed in Q&A to earn enough tokens (balls) to fill up their container and win the game.
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[quote name=\'davidhammett\' post=\'155970\' date=\'Jun 25 2007, 12:14 AM\']
[quote name=\'toddyo\' post=\'155969\' date=\'Jun 24 2007, 10:54 PM\']
I tend to remember a game show on Saturday mornings on NBC, early to mid 70's with Paul Winchell. I can't remember the name but it would work today, with the FCC guidelines. I think it was a tame (and slime-less) version of Double Dare (Marc Summers not Mr. Trebek version).
[/quote]
That would be Runaround, where the kids (9 of them?) competed in Q&A to earn enough tokens (balls) to fill up their container and win the game.
[/quote]
So basically, the losers on that show just didn't have the balls.
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Given the e/i rules of 3 hours a week for each commercial TV station, would high school quiz shows like the long-running It's Academic on NBC-Channel 4 Washington and Hometown HighQ on CBS-Channel 2 Pittsburgh, both of which air on Saturday mornings, count? At least those shows have more educational value than a repurposed episode of Hannah Montana on ABC.
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[quote name=\'byrd62\' post=\'155975\' date=\'Jun 25 2007, 06:26 AM\']
Given the e/i rules of 3 hours a week for each commercial TV station, would high school quiz shows like the long-running It's Academic on NBC-Channel 4 Washington and Hometown HighQ on CBS-Channel 2 Pittsburgh, both of which air on Saturday mornings, count? At least those shows have more educational value than a repurposed episode of Hannah Montana on ABC.
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And, as we all know, Disney does not create TV shows - it creates "lifestyle brands". (http://\"http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6415754.html\") Any E/I content in "Hannah Montana" is purely a coincidence.
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[quote name=\'davemackey\' post=\'155976\' date=\'Jun 25 2007, 05:25 AM\']
And, as we all know, Disney does not create TV shows - it creates "lifestyle brands". (http://\"http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6415754.html\")[/quote]
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
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In other words, we no longer watch "TV shows" -- we instead watch half-hour messages for lifestyle brands on television.
In fact, is it still safe to call television "television"? Or is it a "visual entertainment device" now?
God, I hate modern buzzwords.
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For the record, here is how you play Runaround. There were nine kids. Paul Winchell read a question. The kids were given three possible answers. On the word, "Go," the kids ran to an answer but didn't have to run to the correct answer. When Winchell declared, "Last chance," the kids could change their answers. To see who, if anyone, who standing on the correct answer, Winchell would say, "who's right with the light?," and the correct answer would be illuminated. Those who were wrong would sit in a penalty box. Those who were right got what looked like a foam ball for score keeping purposes and continued to play until only one player, the winner, would remain. The winner would get a prize, eliminated players would be brought back in to play and the game would continue until time ran out. The player with the most foam balls at the end of the half-hour won a prize. Game over.
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In fact Runaround did quite good business in Europe, most recently as "1, 2 oder 3" (1, 2 or 3), a Swiss/German (and possibly one more) co-production.
Ryan.
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[quote name=\'alfonzos\' post=\'156003\' date=\'Jun 25 2007, 02:25 PM\']
For the record, here is how you play Runaround. There were nine kids. Paul Winchell read a question. The kids were given three possible answers. On the word, "Go," the kids ran to an answer but didn't have to run to the correct answer. When Winchell declared, "Last chance," the kids could change their answers. To see who, if anyone, who standing on the correct answer, Winchell would say, "who's right with the light?," and the correct answer would be illuminated. Those who were wrong would sit in a penalty box. Those who were right got what looked like a foam ball for score keeping purposes and continued to play until only one player, the winner, would remain. The winner would get a prize, eliminated players would be brought back in to play and the game would continue until time ran out. The player with the most foam balls at the end of the half-hour won a prize. Game over.
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The added value was that almost every question had some sort of visual attached to it, even if was nothing more than Paul Winchell joking around with Jerry Mahoney or Knucklehead Smith (his dummies only appeared in certain bits and were not with him for the entire show). I recall the San Diego Zoo's Joan Embry appearing with animals for certain questions.
The other rule worth noting is that if time ran out at the end of the show or in a round and there was a tie (if it looked a tie was never going to be broken, they would call a round over), the tied players would be asked a question with a numerical answer. They wrote their answers on slates and the closest, high or low, to the correct answer was declared the winner of the round or the game.
And a "Runaround" audience screaming (with a missplice letting in a bell SFX) was used as a MacKenzie track on NBC for Kids' Weeks and, for some reason, "The Gong Show," for years.
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[quote name=\'alfonzos\' post=\'156003\' date=\'Jun 25 2007, 02:25 PM\']
For the record, here is how you play Runaround. There were nine kids. Paul Winchell read a question. The kids were given three possible answers. On the word, "Go," the kids ran to an answer but didn't have to run to the correct answer. When Winchell declared, "Last chance," the kids could change their answers. To see who, if anyone, who standing on the correct answer, Winchell would say, "who's right with the light?," and the correct answer would be illuminated. Those who were wrong would sit in a penalty box. Those who were right got what looked like a foam ball for score keeping purposes and continued to play until only one player, the winner, would remain. The winner would get a prize, eliminated players would be brought back in to play and the game would continue until time ran out. The player with the most foam balls at the end of the half-hour won a prize. Game over.
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Thanks, Alfonzo... it all comes back now! I'm trying to remember, though... there was a limited amount of space in those chutes that the kids had for their, yes, balls... was there ever a time that they overflowed? Or did a full chute automatically end the game early?
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[quote name=\'davidhammett\' post=\'156082\' date=\'Jun 26 2007, 09:25 AM\']
[quote name=\'alfonzos\' post=\'156003\' date=\'Jun 25 2007, 02:25 PM\']
For the record, here is how you play Runaround. There were nine kids. Paul Winchell read a question. The kids were given three possible answers. On the word, "Go," the kids ran to an answer but didn't have to run to the correct answer. When Winchell declared, "Last chance," the kids could change their answers. To see who, if anyone, who standing on the correct answer, Winchell would say, "who's right with the light?," and the correct answer would be illuminated. Those who were wrong would sit in a penalty box. Those who were right got what looked like a foam ball for score keeping purposes and continued to play until only one player, the winner, would remain. The winner would get a prize, eliminated players would be brought back in to play and the game would continue until time ran out. The player with the most foam balls at the end of the half-hour won a prize. Game over.
[/quote]
Thanks, Alfonzo... it all comes back now! I'm trying to remember, though... there was a limited amount of space in those chutes that the kids had for their, yes, balls... was there ever a time that they overflowed? Or did a full chute automatically end the game early?
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I recall that the chutes had numbers on the sides to give a quick count of the balls and that 9 was the highest number. With all of the sketches/routines/demonstrations and other visuals, they probably rarely did any more than 10 or 11 questions on any particular show, so it wasn't a potential problem.
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don't forget "I'm Telling" with Lori Fazo on NBC, and Animal Crack-Ups (which also aired in primetime) on ABC, both in the late 80s.
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[quote name=\'bellbm\' post=\'156145\' date=\'Jun 26 2007, 10:02 PM\']
don't forget "I'm Telling" with Lori Fazo on NBC, and Animal Crack-Ups (which also aired in primetime) on ABC, both in the late 80s.
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I do believe the correct spelling is Laurie Faso.
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Animal Crack-Ups lasted a couple of years.
The problem most of the Saturday game shows had is they seemed to run around 12 noon (only Video Village Jr. and Shenanigans avoided this; CBS aired them at 10 a.m.). 12 noon and later means frequently bumping and pre-emptions for sporting events, news broadcasts, and affiliate whims.
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' post=\'156205\' date=\'Jun 27 2007, 10:52 PM\']
Animal Crack-Ups lasted a couple of years.
The problem most of the Saturday game shows had is they seemed to run around 12 noon (only Video Village Jr. and Shenanigans avoided this; CBS aired them at 10 a.m.)
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Shenanigans was on ABC, not CBS. Some markets without a full-time ABC station (there were a number of these in 1964-65) might have seen it on a one- or two-week delay on a mostly CBS or NBC station earlier or later in the morning.
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Way Out Games also suffered from the "post noon" slot. Do You Know? was also late in the day. IIRC, the kids' version of Make A Face was pre-noon. Any of our old TV Guide collectors have the air time for Choose Up Sides?
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"Choose Up Sides" was on at noon. It would have to be, what with Gene up till 1am that morning announcing "The Tonight Show," maybe catching a jazz show and a few drinks right after with dinner.
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[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'156218\' date=\'Jun 28 2007, 10:26 AM\']
"Choose Up Sides" was on at noon. It would have to be, what with Gene up till 1am that morning announcing "The Tonight Show," maybe catching a jazz show and a few drinks right after with dinner.
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And Pardo was just coming out of the first shift at Hurley's. [Angus Deayton] Allegedly.[AD]
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The TV Schedule Book by Castleman & Podrazik (the first time I've ever sited this book) puts "Chose Up Sides" on the NBC Winter '56 schedule at 12:30 p.m. ET. It was replaced in the summer by "Watch Mr. Wizard."
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Wasn't there a Junior Almost Anything Goes? I can't recall if that was an early Saturday afternoon offering, or an early Sunday evening show to go up against Disney... didn't it have teams from different states? I'm relying on way-past-expiration-date memories.
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[quote name=\'mcsittel\' post=\'156265\' date=\'Jun 28 2007, 07:06 PM\']
Wasn't there a Junior Almost Anything Goes? I can't recall if that was an early Saturday afternoon offering, or an early Sunday evening show to go up against Disney...
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I see The TV Schedule Book and raise Wesley Hyatt's Encyclopedia of Daytime Television. It was a noon Saturday show from September 1976 to early January 1977, then switched to Sunday mornings until September 1977.
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' post=\'156205\' date=\'Jun 27 2007, 11:52 PM\']
Animal Crack-Ups lasted a couple of years.
The problem most of the Saturday game shows had is they seemed to run around 12 noon (only Video Village Jr. and Shenanigans avoided this; CBS aired them at 10 a.m.). 12 noon and later means frequently bumping and pre-emptions for sporting events, news broadcasts, and affiliate whims.
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But even with a before noon timeslot to help it, Wheel 2000, only had 13 episodes made, and repeated ad infinitum on GSN Cable in the Classroom, before it went bankrupt. (Wheel 2000 was on at 11:30a ET.)
What is David Sidoni up to these days anyway?
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For whatever reason, I was curious to that myself after you posted it....Wikipedia (http://\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sidoni\") says he's in real estate. Take that for what you will.
-Jason
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[quote name=\'SwohS Emag\' post=\'156281\' date=\'Jun 28 2007, 10:51 PM\']
Wheel 2000, only had 13 episodes made, and repeated ad infinitum on GSN Cable in the Classroom, before it went bankrupt.[/quote]
I think this statement is ironic. Am I wrong?
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[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'156299\' date=\'Jun 28 2007, 10:39 PM\']
I think this statement is ironic. Am I wrong?
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Yes.
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[quote name=\'alfonzos\' post=\'156253\' date=\'Jun 28 2007, 08:42 PM\']
The TV Schedule Book by Castleman & Podrazik (the first time I've ever sited this book) puts "Chose Up Sides" on the NBC Winter '56 schedule at 12:30 p.m. ET. It was replaced in the summer by "Watch Mr. Wizard."
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According to Hyatt, CUS aired at noon for the majority of its NBC run from 1/7-2/25/56 and 12:30 from 3/3-3/31/56, but still within the noon hour.
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David Sidoni and Real Estate, huh? Further research (read: Yahoo!) made me find this:
http://davidsidoni.prudentialcal.com/AgentHome/Homepage.aspx (http://\"http://davidsidoni.prudentialcal.com/AgentHome/Homepage.aspx\")
Maybe he'll help find your dream ROUND-house :-D...this is why I didn't go into stand-up, friends.
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And weren't there 26 eps made of "Wheel 2000?"
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[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'156297\' date=\'Jun 29 2007, 01:12 AM\']
For whatever reason, I was curious to that myself after you posted it....Wikipedia (http://\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sidoni\") says he's in real estate. Take that for what you will.
-Jason
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Who's to say David wasn't already doing it? If Joey Greco can do TV and real estate, surely David could.