The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: tpirfan28 on September 09, 2007, 04:14:14 PM
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Who here, honestly, is a little surprised that a Sale of the Century revival has hit the airwaves before a Passwordrevival?
I figured Password would have gotten a nod when All-American Television went on a failed revival spree (Card Sharks and Match Game come to mind). I thought for sure we would have seen it before Sale came back.
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I must have missed it... Where's the info about a revival of $OTC?
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[quote name=\'isucgv\' post=\'163137\' date=\'Sep 9 2007, 04:32 PM\']I must have missed it... Where's the info about a revival of $OTC?[/quote]
Just a little show premiering tomorrow* called Temptation, The New Sale of the Century.
* or last Wednesday, if you want to call the AI preview show the premiere.
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Who'da thunk "Wipeout" would have come back before "Password."? :)
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I, too, would like see Password revived. Perhaps in a format that would have the Alphabetics/Lightning Round as the show's climax.
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[quote name=\'tpirfan28\' post=\'163136\' date=\'Sep 9 2007, 01:14 PM\']
Who here, honestly, is a little surprised that a Sale of the Century revival has hit the airwaves before a Passwordrevival?
[/quote]
While Password in its many incarnations had a longer run and can be considered a far greater success than SOTC, it's no surprise to me that a Password revival hasn't been in the pipeline nor on the air.
SOTC is Q&A game that can be written to any level of intelligence and sophistication. Password requires a command of the nuances of language that is sorely lacking in modern times. Did you hear Miss Teen South Carolina try to speak about maps?! And from the living room side, a great part of the available audience lacks the language skills to play along. If you don't believe it, grab some random folks and try your own informal runthrough.
(harp gliss begins dream sequence)
"The Password is 'miser'"
Jack Benny: "Me"
Partner: "Celebrity"
Carol Burnett: ""Cheapskate"
Partner: "Rollerblade"
Jack: "Hoarder"
Partner: "Prostitute"
Carol: "Scrooge"
Partner: "Semen"
Jack: "Tightwad"
Partner: "Diarrhea"
Home viewer: disgusted or simply confused
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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I'd love to see Password come back, too. I think the biggest problem is that there's no good way to keep it from straddling, which in today's market seems to be a deal-breaker.
Seconding what Randy said, consider that even by 1984 they needed to allow opposites for the game to move forward.
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[quote name=\'tpirfan28\' post=\'163136\' date=\'Sep 9 2007, 04:14 PM\']
Who here, honestly, is a little surprised that a Sale of the Century revival has hit the airwaves before a Passwordrevival?
[/quote]
I'll agree with Randy and also offer this... $otC (nee Temptation) has had a decent enough track record overseas in recent years to make it a bit more attractive for American possibilities. On the other hand, as I understand it, Super Password (i.e., the most recent version of Password) lasted as long as it did mainly because of its low production costs and its time slot (where it faced little competition, especially in eastern markets). With its ratings, if it had been placed in a more competitive slot, it would have been clobbered.
That being said, my own personal preference would be for Password to return, but I totally understand (and have no problems with) Temptation getting the nod.
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Wasn't some exec quoted a few years back (maybe about the time Donny Pyramid was on) that "Password" would never come back because it was "too intelligent" for the average viewer.
Don't shoot the messenger...
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[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' post=\'163152\' date=\'Sep 9 2007, 06:21 PM\']
Seconding what Randy said, consider that even by 1984 they needed to allow opposites for the game to move forward.
[/quote]
Aside from most of the run of Password Plus, didn't Password always allow opposites? Seems like they did on the 1960s episodes I've seen.
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[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' post=\'163152\' date=\'Sep 9 2007, 04:21 PM\']
I'd love to see Password come back, too. I think the biggest problem is that there's no good way to keep it from straddling, which in today's market seems to be a deal-breaker.[/quote]
I assume the obvious solution to straddling - instead of a point limit for victory, impose a time limit (and maybe throw in a per-word amount in addition to a puzzle amount - say, $50 a word, plus $250 for the first puzzle, $500 for the second, $750 for the third, and so on), and play the bonus round at the end of each show - has a problem of some sort?
-- Don
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With all of the talk about Sale vs. Password, what chance is there of bringing back Concentration?
Is there still some sort of rights issue with NBC?
-- Don
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[quote name=\'That Don Guy\' post=\'163257\' date=\'Sep 10 2007, 12:54 PM\']
has a problem of some sort?
[/quote]
Yeah, it uses puzzles. :)
There has to be a way to develop a non-straddling Password format that just sticks with the very basic tenet of the game: one word, one response. Maybe it twists the rest of the formats we know around, but as long as you stick to the very simple word-communication thing, it's totally doable.
(Say, a Speed Round to end the game. Think Final Match-Up, but Password.)
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[quote name=\'That Don Guy\' post=\'163257\' date=\'Sep 10 2007, 02:54 PM\']
[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' post=\'163152\' date=\'Sep 9 2007, 04:21 PM\']
I'd love to see Password come back, too. I think the biggest problem is that there's no good way to keep it from straddling, which in today's market seems to be a deal-breaker.[/quote]
I assume the obvious solution to straddling - instead of a point limit for victory, impose a time limit (and maybe throw in a per-word amount in addition to a puzzle amount - say, $50 a word, plus $250 for the first puzzle, $500 for the second, $750 for the third, and so on), and play the bonus round at the end of each show - has a problem of some sort?
-- Don
[/quote]
The problem is that you can build up such a lead that the last puzzle or two can't change the outcome. As I think about it, that's only a small problem if you're playing for cash. OTOH, if only the winner gets the money, which seems to be the case more and more, it's a big problem.
I'll back-pedal. If you get a host who can chew up time with the celebrities like Convy did, it would be fairly easy to make it self-contained. Short games keep all the chatter; long games get edited down; and unsolved puzzles get edited out most of the time.
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I don't understand how Feud plays to a dollar amount without any straddling issues, but it becomes a problem with Password. Does the celebrity spontaneity really provide that big of a problem? I mean, Feud is a pretty spontaneous show as well.
As for keeping the show from straddling, I have an idea, kinda half-assed.
If the puzzle's not completed, perhaps do a toss-up style puzzle where the remaining words are revealed one-at-a-time. First contestant (no celebrity) who thinks they have an idea about the puzzle can buzz in, but if wrong, the opponent gets a free guess. Kinda similar to what Scrabble used for Speedword. If no one guesses, maybe do one final word (similar to the qualifiers for the Password All-Stars format). Or maybe even do the one word regardless and have that add money to determine the game.
Do so after a team has already gotten a chance to convey a word, and to make it fair, have the other team get one more guess before starting the toss up.
If I come up with something better, I will.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'163265\' date=\'Sep 10 2007, 04:21 PM\']
I don't understand how Feud plays to a dollar amount without any straddling issues, but it becomes a problem with Password. [/quote]
There are those of us who believe that the Feud point structure is seriously flawed. It works, mostly because people aren't ultimately tuning in to see which team wins. And Password could/would work the same way. If producers want a show not to straddle, they'll do something to make it not straddle. We purists might not like it, but that's the way things are.
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I've got another idea...perhaps half-assed as well, but it would perhaps solve the straddling issue, and it borrows from Passwords of the past.
First round: two puzzles at, say, $250 each.
Second round: modified Ca$hword, with one word for each team. $1000 for the first clue, $500 for the second, $250 for the third.
Third round: old-school Password, with each word starting at $500 and losing $50 with each incorrect guess. Repeat until time is called.
And if a tiebreaker is needed:[quote name=\'fostergray82\']perhaps do a toss-up style puzzle where the remaining words are revealed one-at-a-time. First contestant (no celebrity) who thinks they have an idea about the puzzle can buzz in, but if wrong, the opponent gets a free guess.[/quote]
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You could always try something similar to the Scrabble Sprint/2-Minute Drill ending and have the two play a 60-second timed round (ala Alphabetics) separately, with the person behind in the game leading off. Very likely you'd be able to have 3 puzzles in there beforehand, so you'd end up having around 10-12 words and two speed rounds. That should leave enough room for celebrity banter.
The only problem is that it doesn't leave much for a bonus round. Of course, there might be enough excitement in the final round that a bonus round isn't entirely necessary.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'163265\' date=\'Sep 10 2007, 01:21 PM\']
I don't understand how Feud plays to a dollar amount without any straddling issues, but it becomes a problem with Password.[/quote]
With Feud, you have some control over how long a round lasts. If you plan for four rounds and need five, a 3-answer puzzle can be played very quickly (especially when they added the "I'll only read the question once, and when I get to you, you have three seconds to answer" rule). Password, on the other hand, not only had all of its puzzles the same size, but had the problem that it was possible for nobody to solve a puzzle (I'm not 100% sure, but I think there was at least one show where the game lasted so long that they didn't have time for the bonus round).
Here's a problem: what other solutions are there besides these three:
1. No significantly increased points in later rounds, which make the later rounds irrelevant in a blowout;
2. Significantly increased points in later rounds, which make the early rounds meaningless;
3. Straddling, which seems to be a problem in terms of "we want self-contained shows that we can show in any order"?
Jeopardy! doesn't seem to have a problem with "either someone is so far ahead that Final Jeopardy is meaningless, or it comes down to somebody with a big lead lost just because they didn't know the last question (er, answer)", so why do other shows?
(Here's an idea for Password: end the head-to-head game with a lightning round that's worth, say, $250 a word - that way, you give both players a reasonable chance to win and you don't use up too much time doing it. The problem is, you now have a bonus round that's almost exactly like the round you've just played twice in the main game.)
(Er, yes, that is pretty much what chill411 suggested, isn't it...)
-- Don
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[quote name=\'That Don Guy\' post=\'163257\' date=\'Sep 10 2007, 02:54 PM\']
[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' post=\'163152\' date=\'Sep 9 2007, 04:21 PM\']
I'd love to see Password come back, too. I think the biggest problem is that there's no good way to keep it from straddling, which in today's market seems to be a deal-breaker.[/quote]
I assume the obvious solution to straddling - instead of a point limit for victory, impose a time limit (and maybe throw in a per-word amount in addition to a puzzle amount - say, $50 a word, plus $250 for the first puzzle, $500 for the second, $750 for the third, and so on), and play the bonus round at the end of each show - has a problem of some sort?
-- Don
[/quote] College Bowl played to a time's-up whistle. Wheel of Fortune does that too. As does Jeopardy!. I wouldn't have a problem with "and at the bell, our winners are Carol and Bob with 49 points."
But if you're not keen on that, I think a lightning round would be a fine cap to the game. It's not hard to come up with something where the main game isn't peanuts, but the game doesn't feel like it's decided just by the Big Final.
The problem, of course, is that the game requires a familiarity with the English language, and its nuances, that just doesn't exist anymore.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'163470\' date=\'Sep 11 2007, 11:41 PM\']
College Bowl played to a time's-up whistle. Wheel of Fortune does that too. As does Jeopardy!.
[/quote]
College Bowl had a visible clock. There was no mystery on when it was going to end.
--Mike
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As for "Concentration," NBCU now owns that lock, stock and barrel--I assume that the license with Victory under which MGP had a sublicense to produce is over. Since NBCU does sell the format overseas, I assume that it's come up, especially if they decide to have a stablemate to syndicated "DOND" in 2009-10. For whatever reason, nothing's happened.
And I would almost assume that if "Concentration" is revived, NBCU would probably give it to Phil Gurin, since he seems to have a favored nations' status at that company.
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[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'163500\' date=\'Sep 12 2007, 12:14 PM\']
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'163470\' date=\'Sep 11 2007, 11:41 PM\']
College Bowl played to a time's-up whistle. Wheel of Fortune does that too. As does Jeopardy!.
[/quote]
College Bowl had a visible clock. There was no mystery on when it was going to end.[/quote]
...and Jeopardy doesn't end when time runs out. Most of the time, the clock doesn't even come into play anyway, but the game isn't over when the bell sounds, only a round is over.
...and Wheel says (more or less) "time's about to run out, and here's what we're going to do about it."
In all three cases, you have knowledge and/or warning as to when the end of the game arrives. Good game formats have that. Bad game formats don't.
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Well, if fixing it is as easy as adding a "minute to go" sound...
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[quote name=\'HYHYBT\' post=\'163613\' date=\'Sep 13 2007, 12:09 AM\']
Well, if fixing it is as easy as adding a "minute to go" sound...[/quote]
I don't think it's a fix, but it's an easy improvement. For a game that borrows so liberally from Jeopardy, I'm surprised they didn't think of it.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'163515\' date=\'Sep 12 2007, 02:11 PM\']
...and Jeopardy doesn't end when time runs out. Most of the time, the clock doesn't even come into play anyway, but the game isn't over when the bell sounds, only a round is over.
[/quote]
Maybe I'm the only one, but I think Jeopardy works better when the time limit comes into play. Now, once the second Daily Double is called, picking clues has no importance. If you leave a couple on the board, it does, which seems to lend some small bit of tension.
Even playing the home game, the host would note in advance how many clues we'd leave on the board.
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[quote name=\'chops\' post=\'163317\' date=\'Sep 10 2007, 06:55 PM\']
I've got another idea...perhaps half-assed as well, but it would perhaps solve the straddling issue, and it borrows from Passwords of the past.
First round: two puzzles at, say, $250 each.
Second round: modified Ca$hword, with one word for each team. $1000 for the first clue, $500 for the second, $250 for the third.
Third round: old-school Password, with each word starting at $500 and losing $50 with each incorrect guess. Repeat until time is called.
[/quote]
I think this is nearly perfect. Maybe puzzles for $500 each, to be more at par with the old-school segment. Maybe do up to three puzzles, whoever gets two first plays Ca$hword, then switch partners. This seems perfect to me. Then do Alphabetics at the end, but call it the Lightning Round. Get Oprah to executive produce so big-time stars will show up and it'll do gangbusters.
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[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'163661\' date=\'Sep 13 2007, 01:16 PM\']
Get Oprah to executive produce so big-time stars will show up and it'll do gangbusters.
[/quote]
Ooh...Tom Cruise week...I can see him jumping on the desk!
ANNOUNCER: "The Password is ASPIRIN" (ding).
CONTESTANT: "Medicine..."
TOM CRUISE: "Bull-(bleep)!"