The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: tvmitch on August 04, 2008, 09:22:15 PM
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What would be the top 3 things you would change for AG S3? My top choices:
-Extend Atlasphere to 1:30 or 2 minutes to give contenders the time to get used to the game
-Significantly increase possible points in Powerball
-One point = one second in Eliminator
I am nitpicking, because I think the remake is very good. But I think this would make an interesting thread.
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Oh, I'm sorry! The answer we were going for was "shiatcan Hogan." That's "shiatcan Hogan." Thanks for playing, though, did you have a good time?
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Would it be that difficult to bring back Mike Adamle, even if he's just the Disembodied Play-by-Play Guy?
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[quote name=\'J.R.\' post=\'193364\' date=\'Aug 4 2008, 10:40 PM\']
Would it be that difficult to bring back Mike Adamle, even if he's just the Disembodied Play-by-Play Guy?
[/quote]
Now if you bring him back, you have to make him General Manager of American Gladiators.
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I would paint the Pyramid purple.
//New fonts, aaah!!! <cries>
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[quote name=\'xavier45\' post=\'193365\' date=\'Aug 4 2008, 07:44 PM\']
Now if you bring him back, you have to make him General Manager of American Gladiators.[/quote]
I lol'd.
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The hosts, gratuitous smack talk and WWE-style roughness.
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[quote name=\'mparrish11\' post=\'193379\' date=\'Aug 4 2008, 11:24 PM\']
The hosts, gratuitous smack talk and WWE-style roughness.
[/quote]
In other words, the whole show.
/not that some of us can't get past it...
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What would I change? I'd actually make the show more game than glitz. Maybe then we wouldn't have to settle for just highlights from some events that supposedly didn't affect the outcome.
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'193380\' date=\'Aug 4 2008, 09:27 PM\'][quote name=\'mparrish11\' post=\'193379\' date=\'Aug 4 2008, 11:24 PM\']The hosts, gratuitous smack talk and WWE-style roughness.[/quote]In other words, the whole show.[/quote]If getting rid of the "extra stuff", and that meant there was room for an extra event or two, I'd consider that a good trade. Then again, I preferred the AG of old, which didn't have to resort to inane host chatter, catchphrases and "3...2...1...we'll be back!"
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'193384\' date=\'Aug 5 2008, 12:41 AM\']If getting rid of the "extra stuff", and that meant there was room for an extra event or two, I'd consider that a good trade. Then again, I preferred the AG of old, which didn't have to resort to inane host chatter, catchphrases and "3...2...1...we'll be back!"[/quote]
At least in terms of pacing and lack of gimmickry, the show pretty much seemed to hit a good stride from the near-end of the prelims on, with each of the first 4 segments having a men's and women's game and the Eliminator taking up the final two segments. Also, there was Atlasphere, a better scoring system for Gauntlet (the old one), and significantly less title sequence. It's a shame they couldn't have figured this out sooner, because the first handful of episodes probably helped kill the show for a lot of people with the 90-minute molasses-fests and marathon Eliminators.
In terms of stuff that's still cuttable, you'd be able to fit one extra event in safely (cut out all the spoilery stuff and you might have a round of Powerball right there). The other I'm not so sure; I like the occasional interview and enough shenanigans so the Gladiators can show off their character.
So I guess if I had to pick three improvements for Season 3, they would have to be 1) figure out the damn pacing, 2) More meat, less filler, 3) don't overextend with the newness
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[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'193388\' date=\'Aug 5 2008, 12:46 AM\']
2) More meat, less filler
[/quote]
http://www.askmen.com/video/images-clips/2...er_catfight.JPG (http://\"http://www.askmen.com/video/images-clips/2004_nov/nov26_miller_catfight.JPG\")
/are deciding what's better
//what?
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[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'193388\' date=\'Aug 5 2008, 06:46 AM\']
and significantly less title sequence. [/quote]
Ha, this was the most amusing bit, seeing how long they were prepared to extend the title sequence every time a new gladiator arrived. I think it got to about twenty minutes before they gave up and just did a sting.
* Why is a crossing on Sideswipe only worth one point when its worth two on Hit and Run which is pretty much the same game? Sort it out.
* Given that generally speaking a win is worth ten points, a draw is worth five and a loss is worth zero, I'm not liking the scoring system they bought in for Powerball and Rocketball with 1 and 2 point baskets - there was nothing wrong with 2 and 3 points, and it would make the buckets a bit more meaningful and the scores a bit more cohesive with the rest of the events where currently a score of 3 or 4 is seen as a amazing. Failing that, making them 2 and 5 has worked quite well in the UK one, it makes the middle bucket properly worth a risk.
* But to be honest, unless they can be brave and shorten/tighten up the Eliminator so the time variances are less massive it's all much of a muchness anyway. Unfortunately it's not very likely to happen as the immutible law of US TV is that it can only become BIGGER! TOUGHER! and MORE BADASS! which is, you know, a shame.
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Let both contenders score ten in Pyramid instead of just one.
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The only thing that would make this show watchable for me is if they stopped doing so much editing of the events. I don't mind the general feel of the show, I'm occasionally amused by the gladiators' antics, etc. That stuff is fine. But I'm ultimately more interested in the game itself, and there's way too much post-production and cutting for my taste. It continues to baffle me that they can't seem to find time in an hour to show 15 minutes worth of game.
I've tried a few times (most recently one of the semifinals in season 2), but every time I try to watch the new AG I just find myself bored.
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[quote name=\'Brig Bother\' post=\'193391\' date=\'Aug 5 2008, 05:25 AM\']
Ha, this was the most amusing bit, seeing how long they were prepared to extend the title sequence every time a new gladiator arrived. I think it got to about twenty minutes before they gave up and just did a sting.[/quote]
I half-expected it to return for the finale, seeing as they would probably have a few extra minutes to kill, but they just decided to fuse the last two episodes together.
In an American TV landscape where your opening titles are lucky to last 30 seconds, AG had two sequences and they lasted an entire freaking segment.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'193361\' date=\'Aug 4 2008, 10:10 PM\']
Oh, I'm sorry! The answer we were going for was "shiatcan Hogan." That's "shiatcan Hogan." Thanks for playing, though, did you have a good time?
[/quote]
Well played!
Shiatcan Van Earl Wright too, and we've got something. Ali is "decent".
Oh, and cut the overdramatic crap. Trim that away and it's much more tolerable.
/but not the spashies
//or the slashies
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Is a season 3 for NBC even a guarantee? I know the Peacock announced its intentions to air a third season in summer 2009, but ratings have been pretty poor this time around (only hit 2.0 in the demo once, total viewers have averaged between 4.84 and 5.64 million), even for summer standards.
If I'm NBC, I'd just cut my losses and repackage this show for weekly syndication for Fall 2009.
JD
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[quote name=\'colonial\' post=\'193416\' date=\'Aug 5 2008, 10:30 AM\']
Is a season 3 for NBC even a guarantee? I know the Peacock announced its intentions to air a third season in summer 2009, but ratings have been pretty poor this time around (only hit 2.0 in the demo once, total viewers have averaged between 4.84 and 5.64 million), even for summer standards.
If I'm NBC, I'd just cut my losses and repackage this show for weekly syndication for Fall 2009.
[/quote]
Same here--and send "Nashville Star" back to USA and take "Last Comic Standing" out of its misery, as well. As a prime time network series, "Gladiators" was nothing more than a few weeks of a season thing.
(The Magical Elves people have to be enjoying the fact that the first season of "LCS" after Peter Engel kicked them out got really bad ratings.)
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The Olympics-shortened format ain't exactly doing LCS favors either.
Last week...the final eight gave their final performance...and immediately afterward were told whether or not they were eliminated the PREVIOUS week? Come on.
Not to mention the entire tease of them trying to fill however-long-the-show was with eight acts...and then only letting America vote for five of them.
Oh, right, where were we, Gladiators? Hmm...how about not trying to introduce seventeen thousand new events in one season. If you're not going to get to the only one that anyone cares about until the final three weeks, who cares?
That said...yeah, the scoring needs to be tweaked. One point per second, at the VERY least, please. And Powerball is woefully weak in that department...2-3 or 3-5 would make a little more sense. (Rocketball I'll let slide, since at least one contender racked up 12 in it.)
Other than that...um, moar Crush please? :-)
(I have to say though, I did get a perverse pleasure out of seeing that virtually every single time it was played, SkyTrack got edited out.)
/Heh...I actually managed to not use 'Crush' and 'perverse pleasure' in the same sentence!
//Oh wait....
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From a Gladiators forum board that I read, it's looking like they are leaning toward doing S3, but they need to rework the budget before it's official (the 18-49's are decent for a summer show)- this probably means fewer Gladiators and maybe they cut a host-please let it be Hulk- a big thing will be if Ben Silverman survives the fall season first..we won't hear anything for a while most likely- If they go ahead, they probably won't tape til November or December at the earliest...
(and for the Crush fans- Gina Carano will be fighting on CBS October 4th, and she has a part in the new Command and Conquer: Red Alert 3 videogame coming out in October as well...loved the cartwheel celebration into the water BTW)
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As far as our version goes, I would hope that it would turn into more of a sports show than a WWE type show. One of the small things I liked about the original version was when they showed the gladiator's stats for the event they competed in. That, combined with other small things like the telestrator and the decent commentary, made it feel like I was watching something somewhat sporty.
Something that would be cool (but they'll never add) is an on screen score line , like what you see on NBC's hockey and football games. If NBC orders a third season for '09, they should pimp the series' 20th Anniversary. Hard. Do what the UK Gladiators did and have original gladiators playing against the new gladiators. Since Adamle is already working for an NBC owned station, there's no conflict of interest to bring him back for a show or even a segment.
This past season, they made a mistake that many up and coming businesses make: they grew too fast. They added too many gladiators and events for people to keep up with.
Well, it could be worse. Here's the Australian version of Atlasphere. The announcer sounds like he's announcing a monster truck rally, and after the game, the referee actually hands out red cards. I'm all for letting the characters advertise their personalities, but don't tie it in to the proceedings like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PtWKpYWYY0 (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PtWKpYWYY0\")
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Cutting a host...I'll bet a digital Benjamin it's Ali since she's pregnant.
And the vid is a point-and-shoot, but the glad's actions definitely deserved a penalty.
And I would never be the ref in THAT version....
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[quote name=\'weaklink75\' post=\'193431\' date=\'Aug 5 2008, 03:14 PM\'](and for the Crush fans- Gina Carano will be fighting on CBS October 4th, and she has a part in the new Command and Conquer: Red Alert 3 videogame coming out in October as well...loved the cartwheel celebration into the water BTW)[/quote]
Carano also has several cards in the recently released Americana II card series from Donruss, the follow-up to the series which had Woolery, Eubanks, Martindale, and Peter Marshall cards. Carano signed about 1000 autographs for the series--400 for swatch cards, 492 plain cards, and 100 "cut" autographs. For more traditional game show fans, Regis Philbin and Vicki Lawrence are in Americana II.
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AG is a bloated show altogether -- too many Gladiators, too many events, too many hosts.
Dumping Hulk Hogan should be the top priority -- he's a PR liability due to his personal and potential financial problems (from divorce proceedings and potential civil damages to John Graziano's family). Get rid of Van Earl Wright as well, and pair Laila Ali with someone with sports PBP experience -- I could see Matt Vasgersian working well in this format (probably not available due to Fox Sports commitments). Have Ali/PBP provide commentary during the events.
Reduce the number of events per show, and make sure that all events air -- no "highlights" of events that didn't make it to air.
Reduce the number of Gladiators -- NBC's AG Web site lists SEVENTEEN Gladiators. Cut the number down to 8-10, with an equal number of male and female Gladiators.
I'd also move tapings from the L.A. Sports Arena, which probably costs a fortune to rent, and move it to, say, Universal Studios.
JD
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Actually, I'm not sure why everyone seems to want to keep Ali around, either. Her only redeeming feature is that she's less annoying than Hogan, but she's not any more talented than he is either.
The thing about moving to a small facility: I don't want it to dick with the quality of the games. If they're gonna insist on keeping that swimming pool (and you know they will, everybody likes splashies!), would a move to Universal necessitate the re-shrinking of Hang Tough? Or would it force the Atlasphere field to a) shrink or b) be removed entirely?
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'193442\' date=\'Aug 5 2008, 03:13 PM\']
The thing about moving to a small facility: I don't want it to dick with the quality of the games. If they're gonna insist on keeping that swimming pool (and you know they will, everybody likes splashies!), would a move to Universal necessitate the re-shrinking of Hang Tough? Or would it force the Atlasphere field to a) shrink or b) be removed entirely?
[/quote]
If they move to a smaller venue, say goodbye to Atlasphere and say hello to Season 1 of Hang Tough and Assault. Any shrinkage in field size, and you automatically dick with the quality of those two, at least.
Atlasphere would be a complete and utter traffic jam (more than it is already), and a waste of time if put on a smaller field. Unless of course, they put it in the pool as a sudden death event...now THAT's good TV.
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[quote name=\'colonial\' post=\'193440\' date=\'Aug 5 2008, 03:52 PM\']
I'd also move tapings from the L.A. Sports Arena, which probably costs a fortune to rent, and move it to, say, Universal Studios.[/quote]
A quick look of upcoming events in the Sports Arena makes me think that the owners of the would want to keep AG there. I would also see no reason for NBC to want to move, especially if the Pyramid and Wall are still going to be permanent set fixtures. The arena is a little narrow for Atlasphere, but it seems to keep all the other events at a nice size and doesn't look like a storage warehouse like the studio did.
If I had to cut events, I would remove Hit and Run, Vertigo, Earthquake, and Skytrack. That leaves us with 12 events, which is fine (since about 9 are going to be used per match).
In terms of hosts, I keep remember that Dan "Nitro" Clark is Associate Producer and would probably be good for a quick fix if you wanted to dump both Hogan and Ali.
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1) Tell NBC to make their mind up. 60 minutes makes them cut events out completely, 120 minutes stretched everything to death, and even with 90 minute shows, some flowed well, others started and ended slow.
2) I don't want to be the guy who says "bring back Adamle and Csonka, damnit" but... bring back Adamle and Csonka, damnit! Or at the very least, get a competent play-by-play guy and a competent interviewer. At best, they're currently batting about 0.5 out of 3, only because Laila had a few moments where her personality escaped the NBC edit machine.
3) They've spent two seasons making everything bigger and more intense. How about spending a season ironing out the fine details? Perhaps some work that makes it seem like they didn't just show up, throw the Pyramid in one corner, fill up the pool, load in the pyrotechnics, and start taping?
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[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'193388\' date=\'Aug 4 2008, 10:46 PM\']In terms of stuff that's still cuttable, you'd be able to fit one extra event in safely (cut out all the spoilery stuff and you might have a round of Powerball right there). The other I'm not so sure; I like the occasional interview and enough shenanigans so the Gladiators can show off their character.[/quote]There's a difference between "character" and "caricature." On the old version, the Gladiators were the tough enforcers. They didn't rely on "acting" in a certain way, because they had a job to do and that was it. The drama was in the contender/Gladiator conflict, and ultimately in the Eliminatior. AG'08 manufactures that drama in their ham-fisted way and it sucks. Get rid of the "What are you gonna do to HIM? And what're YOU gonna do to HIM?" bit, as well as the stat-sheet cutaways (rather than fonting up the height-weight-girth-allergies) thing while preparing for battle, and you can easily get more actual content.
[quote name=\'Brig Bother\' post=\'193391\' date=\'Aug 5 2008, 02:25 AM\']Failing that, making them 2 and 5 has worked quite well in the UK one, it makes the middle bucket properly worth a risk.[/quote]This is interesting. For all the extra effort and risk you have to undertake to turn an outer bucket score into an inner bucket score, here in the states the delta hasn't been all that much. Two or five is neat.
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I don't mind Hogan. I bet he is getting paid a good amount to do the show, but he's not something I would cut. His over-the-top cheeseball attitude doesn't get old for me for some reason. Laila Ali (or any other second host) isn't necessary UNLESS that second host also does commentary, but I don't see a female play-by-play person, so that really goes out the window. Now, show me two good hosts who can do commentary, fit the mold, and are recognizable* and I'd show Hulk the door.
Just about all the set pieces and props for the show are fixed costs. I don't see them needing to introduce new events for S3, and if they do, shame on them, because there have to be at least as many events as there are gladiators. So the costs for the set, minus rent for the stadium, are nil except for maintenance.
And agreed with the cost-cutting move of paring down to 8-10 Gladiators. Keep the ones that are most well-known. I'd rather see the same Gladiator in every event the entire show than see a different Gladiator in every event.
*Antndec!
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[quote name=\'mitchgroff\' post=\'193529\' date=\'Aug 6 2008, 01:51 PM\']
I don't mind Hogan. I bet he is getting paid a good amount to do the show, but he's not something I would cut. His over-the-top cheeseball attitude doesn't get old for me for some reason.[/quote]
How about his utter overuse of the word "awesome"?
I'm sitting here watching the final right now, and I'm more certain than ever: he's the FIRST thing I would kill. If I had to axe him or Van Earl Wright, Van Earl would still be working.
Now, show me two good hosts who can do commentary, fit the mold, and are recognizable* and I'd show Hulk the door.
How about one host better than Hogan? 'Cuz I'm telling you, that wouldn't be hard to find AT ALL.
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One note about the "new events, new gladiators" deal:
I found it really frustrating that they were still introducing gladiators during the semi-final rounds. One would think that they would get all of the new stuff out of the way by the time the first TEN preliminary episodes came out, so that more time could be focused on the returning contenders and not waste time introducing new event #6 and new gladiator #25.
And for what it's worth, the whole point of the gladiators is to be all-around superior athletes to the contenders, so the fact that some of the glads are being reserved for specific events just cheapens the effect. If Rocket, Zen and Hurricane won't been seen on a Powerball tarp, then don't use them. Awarding Gladiator status to season champions is a nice gesture, but it doesn't translate well when they actually have to compete against other contenders.
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[quote name=\'Loogaroo\' post=\'193567\' date=\'Aug 6 2008, 07:00 PM\']
Awarding Gladiator status to season champions is a nice gesture, but it doesn't translate well when they actually have to compete against other contenders.[/quote]
At least, not without 'roiding them up.
/what?
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Just to add to the conversation:
Some of you guys already know this, but for those who don't, the female Gladiator "Steel," AKA mixed martial arts fighter Erin Toughill, added this season, is my old boxing coach. In interviews promoting the show she has already called Gina Carano out.
That's the reason they made her the "strong, silent" Gladiator; she's an insufferable trash-talker.
/not that I would mind, truthfully; I think she's as hot as Crush myself.
//frak it, I'll take 'em both; I'm hardcore.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'193537\' date=\'Aug 6 2008, 05:35 PM\']
Now, show me two good hosts who can do commentary, fit the mold, and are recognizable* and I'd show Hulk the door.
How about one host better than Hogan? 'Cuz I'm telling you, that wouldn't be hard to find AT ALL.
[/quote]
Thinking about this more, I posit that the host role isn't important in the way the show is run now. If the show was run like the earlier version, then yes, the hosts are essential, because they're the announcers and huge utility players, etc.
Hulk and Laila fit into the host roles as the show is produced and directed right now, because the hosts really don't matter. They are both eye and ear candy, and they really have nothing to do with how the show runs. Take them away, and it's very possible that the show wouldn't lose much. Seriously.
Mike Adamle would be great to have here in this version, but some dramatic changes in the "flow of the show" would need to be made to accommodate him.
Is there room for improvement or room for a better host? Of course. But even if you were to find a better host than Hulk, the way the show is done, that host wouldn't get a chance to shine.
I guess what I'm saying is that Hulk is good for a laugh, and I don't think too many folks take his hosting role seriously. He's there to spike the crowd, and that's about it.
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Whoo... yeah, it's a hassle for sure. No way I can limit this to three things. Here's my all-around take:
1) Hosts & Commentators: Collectively, only Laila doesn't come off as a cliche machine. I don't mind Van Earl Wright's commentary, but he has to put a little more analysis behind the play-by-play now that he's had two seasons of familiarity. I'd say if he can't, then get someone who can. Sadly, in the increasingly short-attention-span society we live in where no one has time to look & learn, this probably won't change, and that's pretty sad. I like the idea of Nitro, though...
2) Smack talk: Yes, major time killer, and that's because we care more about that in American sports than... oh, I don't know... working on having and showing ACTUAL ATHLETIC ABILITY. I'm all for competitiveness, but excess is excess. Seeing the pre-match talk reminds me of the "acting" that the original 6 glads did in the "Dark" Season 1. Therefore, ditch it. It's much more relevant to do the talking AFTERWARD, because then you can get the take from both sides on what happened.
3) Pacing: Fix the smack talk thing, as well as put both Eliminator segments in one segment, and you can easily fit all the events. As far as the intro, I'm not bothered if they show glads or not. I liked the intro that they did early in the season with the larger-than-life thing. Just keep that, and go right to the logo, then start the show.
4) Gladiators: Agreed, too many. And seeing Matt Morgan get involved now, I start to get more worried about those that have double sports careers. I would cut down to 12 at most. Allows for variety and reserve. And yes, get involved in EVERY event. It's Hellga's own fault if she can't climb the Wall (for example).
5) Tournament: I was never a fan of making the tournament only 3 levels. Make it 4: Prelims, quarters, semis and Grand Finals. This way, you've got 32 contenders, it's single elimination where everyone advances when they win. 4 rounds always made me feel like they were more battle-tested, plus you develop more of a fanbase for these guys. At the least, I hope the winners get something for winning a heat. Does anyone know?
Events: The biggest deals:
Powerball: Re-raise that scoring back to 2 & 4. or 2/3 or 2/5. Also, it was the staple of AG. Make it played in every competition again.
Hit & Run vs. Sideswipe: Agreed, no point of having both, just like Duel & Joust didn't combine in the UK. Keep one, and stick to 2 points per goal.
Rocketball: Me like lots. It's a new-age Swingshot. Don't change a thing.
Gauntlet: Glad they changed it back to the old scoring.
Earthquake: Good event, reasonable replacement for Breakthrough & Conquer due to the pool eating up the space. Right that they put it over the pool, too. The glads just need to get a little better at it, they give up a lot of points.
Skytrack: Start showing it in full, or ditch it. Defeats the purpose otherwise.
Events to absolutely ditch: Vertigo & Snapback. They didn't do it for me.
In spite of all this, this season was still better for me, and I'm still a fan through and through. Doesn't mean it can't become the phenom of old again.
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[quote name=\'mitchgroff\' post=\'193594\' date=\'Aug 7 2008, 06:31 AM\']
Thinking about this more, I posit that the host role isn't important in the way the show is run now.[/quote]
Take them away, and it's very possible that the show wouldn't lose much. Seriously.
Hey, works for me. I think you're underestimating the need for someone to be there to prompt the Gladiators so that they can deliver their lines that actually give them (okay, give Wolf and Titan) some semblance of a personality, but I'm behind any change that gets that orange goblin off of my screen.
Is there room for improvement or room for a better host? Of course. But even if you were to find a better host than Hulk, the way the show is done, that host wouldn't get a chance to shine.
Okay. I fail to see where this has bearing on the discussion of whether Hogan is tolerable or not. You're changing the argument.
I guess what I'm saying is that Hulk is good for a laugh, and I don't think too many folks take his hosting role seriously. He's there to spike the crowd, and that's about it.
See above. I came into this discussion only because you said "hey, Hogan isn't that bad," and I felt compelled to point out that yes, yes he is. He is uncomfortably bad. For me, he is UNWATCHABLY bad. The only reason I still watch the show is because I own a Tivo and can judiciously exercise the 30-second skip. If I actually had to sit there and watch Hogan alternate between including "brother" and "awesome" in every sentence he utters, there is no way I would have followed the series to completion.
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Oh, and bring back The Balls for more than one (or two?) appearances.
I didn't see the finals, so I don't know if Atlasphere was in them or not. I know they made their debut a couple of weeks ago.
And, is it sad I was watching AG just for the debut of Atlasphere? None of the new events really did it for me (among other things.)
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[quote name=\'tpirfan28\' post=\'193607\' date=\'Aug 7 2008, 08:53 AM\']
And, is it sad I was watching AG just for the debut of Atlasphere?[/quote]
Yes.
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[quote name=\'tpirfan28\' post=\'193607\' date=\'Aug 7 2008, 11:53 AM\']
Oh, and bring back The Balls for more than one (or two?) appearances.
I didn't see the finals, so I don't know if Atlasphere was in them or not. I know they made their debut a couple of weeks ago.[/quote]
Fwiw, Altaspheres was semi-finals only. The men played it thrice and the women twice.
I don't know off-hand, but I have to think that a couple of events were played less.
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[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'193651\' date=\'Aug 7 2008, 05:51 PM\']I don't know off-hand, but I have to think that a couple of events were played less.[/quote]That's gonna happen when you add events, y'know.
How often was Assault played?