The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: cmjb13 on April 21, 2009, 01:41:03 PM
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I've heard different things from he was fired, then rehired, then retired, to he was fired along with Janice & Kathleen.
Did Paul provide testimony in the Hallstrom case?
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If I recall, I THINK he testified on Holly's behalf, but I could be wrong.
Here's something that might be interesting. I believe Chris Jaunsen and I saw the LAST show Paul Alter directed in person. Of course there was no mention of it, but I remember that Bart took over VERY shortly after that. We also saw one of the FIRST shows with the rotating models, and of course someone asked about Janice and Kathleen. Bob only responded "Fremantle decided not to renew their contracts"
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Yes Paul Alter testified for Holly along with Janice and Kathleen, and was fired on the same day as them, IIRC what I read about this. Paul might have been brought in on a temp basis after, maybe to ease the transition. BTW, Paul Alter also directed episodes of TPIR with Bill Cullen. Shame that a man with such a long history with G-T got treated that way.
I was at a taping of TPIR in 1995. It was October, but they were taping shows for Christmas Week. Holly had been "let go" about this time. When asked about her, Barker said "Holly retired, she hasn't been with us all season." After about three seconds of awkward silence, Barker asked "Are there any other questions?"
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' post=\'213641\' date=\'Apr 21 2009, 01:41 PM\']
I've heard different things from he was fired, then rehired, then retired, to he was fired along with Janice & Kathleen.
Did Paul provide testimony in the Hallstrom case?
[/quote]
How very poetic! Move over Nipsey Russel (ducking).
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[quote name=\'BillCullen1\' post=\'213652\' date=\'Apr 21 2009, 02:27 PM\']
BTW, Paul Alter also directed episodes of TPIR with Bill Cullen. Shame that a man with such a long history with G-T got treated that way.
[/quote]
Indeed, his career in the game show industry went way back - he also directed many episodes of What's My Line (also part of the Goodson Todman stable) in the early 1960s.
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' post=\'213641\' date=\'Apr 21 2009, 10:41 AM\']
I've heard different things from he was fired, then rehired, then retired, to he was fired along with Janice & Kathleen.
Did Paul provide testimony in the Hallstrom case?
[/quote]
It wasn't the "Hallstrom case", it was the first lawsuit filed (Barker v. Hallstorm), in which Barker sued Holly for slander, which he lost. Hence all the firings, including Alter's.
He was rehired to "consult" with Eskander until Eskander was ready to take over, at which time Alter was "retired".
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'213975\' date=\'Apr 24 2009, 08:13 PM\']He was rehired to "consult" with Eskander until Eskander was ready to take over[/quote]
Then how come he only stayed until 2001? ;-)
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Note how none of these cases went to jury trial. In my humble opinion Mr. Barker has a great deal of difficulty wrapping his head around the concept of perjury. If a case went to trial and he was put on the stand and lied through his teeth, he could ultimately find himself on trial for lying under oath. That would explain why his attorneys wanted to settle at any cost and devoutly avoided jury trials.
All of this is just my opinion, of course.
As for Paul Alter, he may have been making a Goodson-size salary to direct TPIR and Pearson/Fremantle may have felt they could get Bart to direct for much less.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'214020\' date=\'Apr 25 2009, 07:43 AM\']
If a case went to trial and he (Barker) was put on the stand and lied through his teeth, he could ultimately find himself on trial for lying under oath. [/quote]
Yes but at least Barker wouldn't be alone. His boy Roger would be right there with him in the cell next to his!
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'214030\' date=\'Apr 25 2009, 12:44 PM\']
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'214020\' date=\'Apr 25 2009, 07:43 AM\']
If a case went to trial and he (Barker) was put on the stand and lied through his teeth, he could ultimately find himself on trial for lying under oath. [/quote]
Yes but at least Barker wouldn't be alone. His boy Roger would be right there with him in the cell next to his!
[/quote]
Ba-zing.
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Oh good lord, here it goes.
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Ba-zing.
Hi CountdownRound, I'm sorry, I'm new and don't speak "blog". What does "Ba-zing" mean?
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'214073\' date=\'Apr 25 2009, 05:12 PM\']
Hi CountdownRound, I'm sorry, I'm new and don't speak "blog". What does "Ba-zing" mean?[/quote]
He was taken by the biting nature of your comment.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'214080\' date=\'Apr 25 2009, 09:14 PM\']
[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'214073\' date=\'Apr 25 2009, 05:12 PM\']
Hi CountdownRound, I'm sorry, I'm new and don't speak "blog". What does "Ba-zing" mean?[/quote]
He was taken by the biting nature of your comment.
[/quote]
Indeed I was. Sorry for any confusion.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'214080\' date=\'Apr 25 2009, 06:14 PM\']
quote]He was taken by the biting nature of your comment.[/quote]
OK. Was it just my comment or was he also taken by the biting nature of chris319's comment?
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'214084\' date=\'Apr 25 2009, 09:27 PM\']
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'214080\' date=\'Apr 25 2009, 06:14 PM\']
quote]He was taken by the biting nature of your comment.[/quote]
OK. Was it just my comment or was he also taken by the biting nature of chris319's comment?
[/quote]
I think "he" was more piqued by yours than by Chris'. Not often that Roger Dobkowitz is referred to as Bob's "boy" around these parts. Plus I'm used to being bitten by Chris.
And just so we're clear, "ba-zing" is more Vegas Lounge Lizard than blog. :-)
(The smiley face means I'm being friendly.)
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[quote name=\'CountdownRound\' post=\'214140\' date=\'Apr 26 2009, 05:46 PM\'] Not often that Roger Dobkowitz is referred to as Bob's "boy" around these parts. [/quote]
I was just referring to one of Roger's nicknames on set "Bob's Boy" or "Barker's Boy".
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CountdownRound can you eMail me at pentellit@yahoo.com?
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'214164\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 01:21 AM\']
CountdownRound can you eMail me at pentellit@yahoo.com?
[/quote]
All-righty... you've got mail. :-)
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Was it just my comment or was he also taken by the biting nature of chris319's comment?
I don't know if my comment was that biting. I'm sure Barker's attorneys gave some thought to the prospect of putting him on the stand and the ramifications thereof, and the possibility of perjury may have been among their concerns.
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'214162\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 12:46 AM\']
[quote name=\'CountdownRound\' post=\'214140\' date=\'Apr 26 2009, 05:46 PM\'] Not often that Roger Dobkowitz is referred to as Bob's "boy" around these parts. [/quote]
I was just referring to one of Roger's nicknames on set "Bob's Boy" or "Barker's Boy".
[/quote]
I'm sure you would love to provide who used this name. Former models and employees don't count.
(Dear god please don't let this place turn into GSN...)
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[quote name=\'TroubadourNando\' post=\'214213\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 05:15 PM\']
I'm sure you would love to provide who used this name. Former models and employees don't count.[/quote]
Why don't they?
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'214216\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 08:26 PM\']
[quote name=\'TroubadourNando\' post=\'214213\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 05:15 PM\']
I'm sure you would love to provide who used this name. Former models and employees don't count.[/quote]
Why don't they?
[/quote]
Who are you to question TroubadorNando?
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[quote name=\'TroubadourNando\' post=\'214213\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 08:15 PM\']
Former models and employees don't count.
[/quote]
Because when it comes to reliable sources, fanboys populating online fever swamps are much more trustworthy than, oh, say, people who worked on the show, right?
You. Nando. Educate us. Enlighten us, please, as to the inner workings of this show. You're the expert, right? Why, it looks like you even host a chat version of the game on those ill-reputed GSN boards. Surely you know better than the rest of us. Expound on your knowledge! Let us learn at your feet!
What? Who are you to question TroubadorNando?
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[quote name=\'CountdownRound\' post=\'214218\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 07:29 PM\']
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'214216\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 08:26 PM\']
[quote name=\'TroubadourNando\' post=\'214213\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 05:15 PM\']
I'm sure you would love to provide who used this name. Former models and employees don't count.[/quote]
Why don't they?
[/quote]
Who are you to question TroubadorNando?
[/quote]
Approves (http://\"http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_d3S54zvGuxs/RvPFERHFO7I/AAAAAAAAABY/rTEye-HsGQc/s320/eldandy.bmp\")
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[quote name=\'CountdownRound\' post=\'214218\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 05:29 PM\']
Who are you to question TroubadorNando?[/quote]
I am the Director of Suck Consolidation. Now step to the side and let me do my job. :)
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'214226\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 09:04 PM\']
[quote name=\'CountdownRound\' post=\'214218\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 05:29 PM\']
Who are you to question TroubadorNando?[/quote]
I am the Director of Suck Consolidation. Now step to the side and let me do my job. :)
[/quote]
Well, if you were doing your job, his post count would be in the low 100s. :-P
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[quote name=\'TroubadourNando\' post=\'214213\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 05:15 PM\']
[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'214162\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 12:46 AM\']
[quote name=\'CountdownRound\' post=\'214140\' date=\'Apr 26 2009, 05:46 PM\'] Not often that Roger Dobkowitz is referred to as Bob's "boy" around these parts. [/quote]
I was just referring to one of Roger's nicknames on set "Bob's Boy" or "Barker's Boy".
[/quote]
I'm sure you would love to provide who used this name. Former models and employees don't count.
(Dear god please don't let this place turn into GSN...)
[/quote]
Let's review what pentellit said. (Emphasis mine.)
[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'214162\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 12:46 AM\']
I was just referring to one of Roger's nicknames on set "Bob's Boy" or "Barker's Boy".
[/quote]
This was his nickname on set. So citing people who were...on the set...doesn't count? My head hurts.
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[quote name=\'TroubadourNando\' post=\'214213\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 05:15 PM\']
I'm sure you would love to provide who used this name. Former models and employees don't count.[/quote]
Former models and employees don't count? Well then I guess that just leaves the guys in the carpenter shop, two janitors, and the busboy at the commissary.
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Hi countdownRound, Thank you for the mail. And is the Koji Clutch a hold, or a cocktail? :)
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'214246\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 10:59 PM\']
Hi countdownRound, Thank you for the mail. And is the Koji Clutch a hold, or a cocktail? :)
[/quote]
It's a hold (one of my other hobbies)... but it does sound like it'd make one hell of a drink. Any mixologists wanna help me out? :-D
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[quote name=\'CountdownRound\' post=\'214219\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 08:30 PM\']
[quote name=\'TroubadourNando\' post=\'214213\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 08:15 PM\']
Former models and employees don't count.
[/quote]
Because when it comes to reliable sources, fanboys populating online fever swamps are much more trustworthy than, oh, say, people who worked on the show, right?
You. Nando. Educate us. Enlighten us, please, as to the inner workings of this show. You're the expert, right? Why, it looks like you even host a chat version of the game on those ill-reputed GSN boards. Surely you know better than the rest of us. Expound on your knowledge! Let us learn at your feet!
What? Who are you to question TroubadorNando?
[/quote]
If you inspected my posting history there a little more closely, you would see that I have not posted there for at least five months, surely more. If there are posts from this year on GSN purportedly by me, something is up, because I abandoned that place as hopeless some time ago.
And would you care to know why? (I figure you'll say no, but you have me backed into a corner in that I have to defend myself now, so yeah)
It is because "pentellit" along with "DENo1MatchGameFan" and "atty1day" made it unbearable to be there. You can't have an even half-mature conversation, nay, even BRING UP Price on there without one of them (usually two or all) launching into some insane diatribe about how 'evil' Barker is, complete with arm-length lists of quotes attributed to former models and anyone else who came under his thumb. One person, albeit one outside that trio, recently made a post that seriously tried to equate Barker with Hitler, Pol Pot and Fidel Castro.
I know Barker's no saint. I freely acknowledge it, and I know that a lot of people have a lot of good reasons to dislike him. There's also a point where it gets ridiculous and THAT is why I called him out. I was willing to give him a chance when I saw him come here and behave normally, and he was really doing a good job until the "Roger is Bob's boy!!!" stuff started. Because that is exactly how it started on GSN and devolved into insane rants about how flawless old models were, how Barker is Satan, and so on.
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I have yet to see pentellit post any insane diatribes, arm-length lists of quotes, or invoke the names of any murderous dictators.
I do see TroubadorNando having a freaking cow, operating under the assumption that pentellit is absolutely going to commit those transgressions, and (quite hilariously) citing a post wherein a moderator calls for an end to pointless bickering... in a post full of nothing but pointless bickering.
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Okay, yeah, stepping back from this for a moment, I can see where I went wrong now that I've cleared my head a bit. I've been trying to not do this, yet I continue to...I clearly have much work still to do. I have REALLY got to learn to stop letting my mouth run.
pentellit, I owe you an apology, seriously. So...I'm sorry.
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[quote name=\'TroubadourNando\' post=\'214256\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 10:42 PM\']
Okay, yeah, stepping back from this for a moment, I can see where I went wrong now that I've cleared my head a bit. I've been trying to not do this, yet I continue to...I clearly have much work still to do. I have REALLY got to learn to stop letting my mouth run.
pentellit, I owe you an apology, seriously. So...I'm sorry.
[/quote]
If I was pentellit, I'd take the apology...but with a grain of salt.
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'214294\' date=\'Apr 28 2009, 02:25 PM\']
If I was pentellit, I'd take the apology...but with a grain of salt.
[/quote]
Believe me or don't - it's your choice. I meant it and I intend to show it, so at least give me that chance.
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[quote name=\'TroubadourNando\' post=\'214250\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 08:23 PM\']
I was willing to give him a chance when I saw him come here and behave normally, and he was really doing a good job until the "Roger is Bob's boy!!!" stuff started. [/quote]
Ok Guys, here’s the deal.
First off I'm a she and not a he.
My dear friend Linda Riegert worked on Price for years. Over the years I spent a lot of time on the set and at TV City. I didn’t go to the Goodson offices often. I spent most of my time at Price hanging with Linda, and flirting with the crew and with the cute actors over on Y&R and B&B. I made a lot of friends on Price and at TV City.
Sadly Linda was one of the women Barker fired after she testified in his lawsuit against Holly. It was excruciatingly painful to watch my dear friend lose her job, her friends, her career, and her whole life as she knew it, all because she wouldn’t lie for Barker. The deposition questioning and testimonies were grueling and unbearable.
As a result I cannot stand Barker or Roger Dobkowitz. Every ruthless dictator has a lieutenant that actually carries out the dictator’s orders and does his dirty work, the firings, the betraying, the snitching. On Price that was Roger. He was not well liked, and even less respected.
In the original post that started this controversy the subject was felony perjury, and I posted that at least Barker wouldn’t be alone because “his boy Roger” would be in the cell next to his, citing one of Roger’s nicknames from the show. Roger’s other nickname, that in hindsight would have been more accurate, is BobbleDob, because whenever and whatever Bob said, i.e. with every lie Barker told Roger was right there bobbling “Yes Bob, that’s exactly what happened. Yeah, yeah that’s it.” “Lying through his teeth” as the original post said, and costing the jobs of many hardworking, longstanding Price employees. Obviously not a well liked guy.
TroubadorNando cites posters on GSN that make it uncomfortable for him to post there, namely me, DeNo1MatchGameFan, and atty1day. I can’t speak for DeNo1, and atty1day seems to only post facts and quotes from court documents blah, blah, blah. But for myself, rather than accept TroubadorNando’s apology and then turn around and post something he considers not “behaving normally” i.e. posting benignly pleasant, non-threatening anecdotes about Price, I have to ask TNando (and anyone else here), “If the truth and facts of Barker and his boy Roger consistently show that Barker was an ass**** and Roger was his right hand man in all the bad stuff that happened on Price, are you okay with it?”
It’s ok if you say “no”, because I have been beaten and/or banned from numerous websites. Some websites don’t want to hear anything other than Price was one big happy family. Others have these pseudo authorities who absolutely cannot tolerate someone with genuine inside information or someone who was actually there, that clearly know more than they do.
I can handle the rejection and keep looking for a forum in which to share the good about Price, and the bad, with gamers who love the show and don’t have personal problems with the facts. Trust me, it’s ok.
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I don't speak for anyone here, but please do not allow some posters' doubts and comments to run you away. This is a very welcoming forum, despite the heated threads. I would hate to see a few rude views (one of which was apologized for) give you the impression that the powers that be run some sort of elitist exclusive club.
Barker's actions have been argued here before, so don't think that anything you mentioned might have stirred any ill will. Trust me, that ill will was there before you arrived as well, as has been evidenced by numerous threads surrounding the show... ;-)
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I, for one, am glad to see someone come out who a) apparently actually DOES have some inside information on Price's goings on. and b) has the story and information to support the claims. We definitely welcome you, pentellit, as long as anything you dish out can be backed up. :)
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[quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'214337\' date=\'Apr 28 2009, 09:36 PM\']
I, for one, am glad to see someone come out who a) apparently actually DOES have some inside information on Price's goings on. and b) has the story and information to support the claims. We definitely welcome you, pentelit, as long as anything you dish out can be backed up. :)
[/quote]
Thirded.
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[quote name=\'CountdownRound\' post=\'214247\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 11:03 PM\']
[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'214246\' date=\'Apr 27 2009, 10:59 PM\']
Hi countdownRound, Thank you for the mail. And is the Koji Clutch a hold, or a cocktail? :)
[/quote]
It's a hold (one of my other hobbies)... but it does sound like it'd make one hell of a drink. Any mixologists wanna help me out? :-D
[/quote]
Sake and soy sauce.
Koji (http://\"http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=koji&x=0&y=0\")
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I can handle the rejection and keep looking for a forum in which to share the good about Price, and the bad, with gamers who love the show and don’t have personal problems with the facts.
Pentellit -
You don't have to keep looking (there aren't that many other game show boards to look at). You are welcome here and free to speak your mind without fear of repercussion. Yes, there will be vociferous debate but you shouldn't let that intimidate you or scare you away. Speaking as one of the two guys who decides who participates here and who doesn't, I can tell you that you won't be banned for expressing unpopular opinions about Barker/Roger/Price no matter what other members have to say about it.
I'm sorry if your experience on other boards has been less than positive. I hope you find us more hospitable.
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Just to make a quick clarification, since some may generalize Golden-Road.net with the statement "some websites only want to believe Price was a big happy family," neither pentellit nor atty1day have ever been banned from the site.
Right, pen? :)
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[quote name=\'ClockGameJohn\' post=\'214346\' date=\'Apr 28 2009, 08:15 PM\']
Just to make a quick clarification, since some may generalize Golden-Road.net with the statement "some websites only want to believe Price was a big happy family," neither pentellit nor atty1day have ever been banned from the site. Right, pen? :)[/quote]
Absolutely John, not banned, just beaten :)
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'214345\' date=\'Apr 28 2009, 11:13 PM\'] Speaking as one of the two guys who decides who participates here and who doesn't, I can tell you that you won't be banned for expressing unpopular opinions about Barker/Roger/Price no matter what other members have to say about it.[/quote]
Speaking as the other one, he's exactly right.
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'214345\' date=\'Apr 28 2009, 11:13 PM\']I'm sorry if your experience on other boards has been less than positive. I hope you find us more hospitable.[/quote]
Absolutely. We are a privately run board without a specific agenda. We allow things to get a little more heated than they would at GSN, for example, but we're also not going to try to run you out of town just because your opinions might not match the majority. And in this case (what Bob Barker was like behind the scenes), I'm not even sure that you're expressing a minority opinion among OUR members. Plus you clearly have insight, which is always appreciated.
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I apologize for not realizing you were a 'she,' pentellit. I also give you a lot of credit for standing up to me and putting me in my place when I acted, well, like a real prick.
I realize now that you actually do have inside information, and my (stupid) remarks were based on the assumption that you were just shooting your mouth off. So, let's actually have the discussion we should have been having from the start, if it wasn't for my arrogance.
I guess I've always been the type to want to see both sides of the story. I always hear about all the bad things Bob and Roger apparently did, yet I've never seen the flipside of that. I just have a hard time believing that both of them were simply pure evil with absolutely not a trace of good in them. I always knew Bob did a lot of bad things, though I will admit the stuff about Roger is new to me; however, I don't think using terms like 'ruthless dictator' really work here either.
Now to your question:
“If the truth and facts of Barker and his boy Roger consistently show that Barker was an ass**** and Roger was his right hand man in all the bad stuff that happened on Price, are you okay with it?”
First off, I can't say I completely understand the line that followed this ("It's okay if you say no..."), since it looks to me like that should say "It's okay if you say yes," but I digress.
I'm not okay with things like what happened to Holly, where she became so destitute that she had to live out of her car after he fired her. But I just can't get myself worked up over two guys being, as you put it, assholes. (I think swearing is okay here...I hope) Being an asshole isn't a crime, otherwise our jails would be one hundred times more overcrowded with prisoners.
In the grand scheme of things for me (and only for me) I have many more worse things to worry about than whether or not a decrepit old man and his best friend are assholes. But, now I understand that it is different for you, and you know, I actually DO completely understand your motivation now. I really do.
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Thank you TNando, you're a stand up guy.
Now on the lighter side of posting things, have you guys seen this video? (Let it be a warning to all of us!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBJB-nunxgE (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBJB-nunxgE\")
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'214333\' date=\'Apr 28 2009, 10:20 PM\']
“If the truth and facts of Barker and his boy Roger consistently show that Barker was an ass**** and Roger was his right hand man in all the bad stuff that happened on Price, are you okay with it?”
It’s ok if you say “no”, because I have been beaten and/or banned from numerous websites. Some websites don’t want to hear anything other than Price was one big happy family. Others have these pseudo authorities who absolutely cannot tolerate someone with genuine inside information or someone who was actually there, that clearly know more than they do.
[/quote]
Pentellit, I really enjoy reading your posts. I have been fortunate enough to visit TPIR many times over the past few years. One incident always sticks out in my mind...
I was visiting TPIR in November 2002. I was in the control booth watching the show. After a contestant won playing 10 chances, she chased after Barker. He tried to hide behind the game until the contestant dragged him out on stage. She was so rough with him, he proceeded to fall to one knee. During the commercial break, Bart was thinking about what should be done. Bob Chic said Barker wants to come back to the control room after the show to see how it looks. After the show is over, I say thank you to Bart for allowing me to watch the show in the booth and proceed to leave. Roger is heading towards the control room and asks where I'm going. I say that I'm leaving as if Barker comes back here, I know my place and it's time to go. He proceeds to tell me to stay. I reluctantly agree. Barker comes in the room and is watching the tape. While the tape is running, he turns his head slightly to the right and gives me the most evil look anyone has ever given me. I'll never forget that as long as I live. Bart eventually decided to eliminate the footage of Barker falling to one knee.
Then there was the 30th Anniversary special from Las Vegas, where after the show Barker came backstage with Syd Vinnedge giving him a standing ovation like it was the best performance he'd ever seen. This after Barker walked off stage during the show.
Man, I really wish I kept a diary/log book of all the stuff I've seen.
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[quote name=\'TroubadourNando\' post=\'214350\' date=\'Apr 28 2009, 10:43 PM\']
Being an asshole isn't a crime, otherwise our jails would be one hundred times more overcrowded with prisoners.
[/quote]
TN:
You're not seeing the point that pentellit is trying to make - that both Bob/Roger would lie through their teeth in order to put other working people down. Last time I checked, perjury is a crime. My .02? You're seeing the label only, not what's wrapped inside it.
What's she's saying, btw, is that it's OK to agree to disagree, which is obvious between you two.
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I question if all the behind-the-scenes through the years resulted in FremantleMedia canning "Bob's Boy" after Season 36, in the way of getting back at him and using the terms "new direction" in that light.
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This thread is fascinating reading. Y&R and B&B viewers are missing CBS' most compelling, longest running soap - it's been playing out in 33.
I won't be adding my recollection of any specific incidents or sharing my direct observations or analysis of any of the people being discussed. Instead, I'd like to make a more global comment based on my months working on Price, with many of the people mentioned here, as filtered through my general thoughts on life and people. Just my opinions, no more.
Opinion #1: It's the usual office politics or schoolyard dynamics you'd find anywhere, except on steroids. The same people have worked together for years - some for as long as half a lifetime, Because it's TV it's all with supersized salaries, supersized egos and high stakes. And because it's show biz it remains mostly hidden and sometimes festering behind a benign facade, unlike the office or fast food workers who act outwardly hostile. The result: it's a hothouse environment where things grow bigger, faster, and hotter, with deeper roots and more grandiose blossomings.
Opinion #2: Few people in life are purely evil or purely benevolent. Everyone's primary motivation is survival - creative, financial, and/or emotional nurturing. When people sense their survival is threatened, they respond. Those who respond most are the most insecure. When I see someone behaving with hostility or deceit, I find it as offensive as anyone else does. But I also can see that the person is acting out of their own sense of having their survival threatened. Those who are threatened most easily and react most profoundly are usually the people who have more pain, fear and insecurity in their lives a.k.a. "baggage". When my anger subsides I feel sadness and compassion for those people.
Summary: The basic drama on that set is no different than the drama on other sets I've worked. But it is far bigger, brighter, more colorful, louder, more energized, more pronounced and sometimes more hostile. And because some of it has been playing out for decades, some of it is far more complex and convoluted. It was certainly a learning experience for me, and I now understand that I was already in the drama and politics long before I realized it, by virtue of whose "side" I appeared to be on. It's sad that something that has brought so much joy to the viewing public has been the source of so much hurt and sadness for others.
With respect and with appreciation for the experience,
Randy
tvrandywest.com
OT: I found Paul Alter to be a friendly guy with great stories, who seemed to care about his work and wanted to include some creative shots.
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Standing ovation for Randy.
And Pentellit, here's to a long and healthy stay with us. (Raising an Aquafina.)
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' post=\'214364\' date=\'Apr 29 2009, 06:12 AM\']
Barker comes in the room and is watching the tape. While the tape is running, he turns his head slightly to the right and gives me the most evil look anyone has ever given me. I'll never forget that as long as I live.
[/quote]
Ahhhh cmjb13, you met The Man Behind The Mask. Its scary isn't it...…
One time I was on the set and I was in the area offstage back behind the production table, and the show was taping, and of course it was really loud with lots of buzzers and clapping and the audience is shouting numbers etc, and then suddenly everything stops. Barker is yelling, he is furious. I peeked around the curtain but I couldn't see who Barker was yelling at, so I looked out over the audience and saw 300 people absolutely frozen in their seats. Their mouths were open, eyes wide, frozen like statues, watching Barker rage. It was surreal because the whole stage was suddenly totally hear-a-pin-drop silent, except for Barker's fury. And I realized that I was looking at 300 people who were not breathing.
I really quickly hurried back to the Green Room and thought, “Boy, everyone in that audience is going to have some story to tell the folks back home about their visit to The Price is Right.” Scary.
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Pentellit! You can't leave us hanging like that! Did you ever learn the reason for this outburst?
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^Oh Chris319, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to leave you hanging! I really don't know what it was about but I vaguely and I mean vaguely recall something about something not working, or something not being where it was supposed to be. I didn't stick around to find out! Sorry :(
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Pentellit -
You may call me Chris. Just don't call me late for dinner :-)
I've been in the studio when things have broken down and he didn't fly into a rage, but I don't doubt your account. One time they were playing Bargain Game and the numbers failed to turn. Barker didn't have a tantrum but a certain cranky A.D. did, and this delayed finding an edit point to make an edit and continue. While this was going on, Bob Chic's voice came over the intercom saying "Bob will see you after the show" in a most ominous tone.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'214621\' date=\'May 1 2009, 03:49 PM\']...Bob Chic's voice came over the intercom saying "Bob will see you after the show" in a most ominous tone. [/quote]
Ouch. I'm guessing he wasn't talking about one of the models...
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^Oh Chris319, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to leave you hanging! I really don't know what it was about but I vaguely and I mean vaguely recall something about something not working, or something not being where it was supposed to be. I didn't stick around to find out! Sorry :(
pentellit, interesting story. Just out of curiousity, do you recall approximately what year this occurred?
I'm under the impression Barker was a nice guy in the beginning, but got harder and harder to work with as time went on. Am I on track?
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'214631\' date=\'May 1 2009, 05:46 PM\']
I'm under the impression Barker was a nice guy in the beginning, but got harder and harder to work with as time went on. Am I on track?
[/quote]
I read somewhere (prolly here) that a lot of it stemmed (understandably) from his wife Dorothy Jo's death in 1981. Someone mentioned that she held him in line in many cases, esp. his attitude.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'214621\' date=\'May 1 2009, 04:49 PM\']
certain cranky A.D.
[/quote]
Who was the AD? Bob Gray?
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[quote name=\'davemackey\' post=\'214636\' date=\'May 1 2009, 03:05 PM\']
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'214621\' date=\'May 1 2009, 04:49 PM\']
certain cranky A.D.
[/quote]
Who was the AD? Bob Gray?
[/quote]
I said "cranky". Worthy of the monicker "Little Breslow".
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'214643\' date=\'May 1 2009, 05:36 PM\']
[quote name=\'davemackey\' post=\'214636\' date=\'May 1 2009, 03:05 PM\']
Who was the AD? Bob Gray?
[/quote]
I said "cranky". Worthy of the monicker "Little Breslow".
[/quote]
Wouldn't happen to be a certain individual who, as of earlier this year, became an ex-director of "Price"??
/oh wait, he doesn't deserve any comparison to Breslow
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'214632\' date=\'May 1 2009, 05:49 PM\']
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'214631\' date=\'May 1 2009, 05:46 PM\']
I'm under the impression Barker was a nice guy in the beginning, but got harder and harder to work with as time went on. Am I on track?
[/quote]
I read somewhere (prolly here) that a lot of it stemmed (understandably) from his wife Dorothy Jo's death in 1981. Someone mentioned that she held him in line in many cases, esp. his attitude.
[/quote]
This is what I personally agree with, and why in the end I actually pity him.
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[quote name=\'Chief-O\' post=\'214647\' date=\'May 1 2009, 04:39 PM\']
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'214643\' date=\'May 1 2009, 05:36 PM\']
[quote name=\'davemackey\' post=\'214636\' date=\'May 1 2009, 03:05 PM\']
Who was the AD? Bob Gray?
[/quote]
I said "cranky". Worthy of the monicker "Little Breslow".
[/quote]
Wouldn't happen to be a certain individual who, as of earlier this year, became an ex-director of "Price"??
/oh wait, he doesn't deserve any comparison to Breslow[/quote]
Naw, no WAY could it be the current former director as of several months ago :-P
I have to put in a good word for the original subject of this thread. Though he wasn't as creative or imaginative a director as Breslow, Paul Alter was the Rock of Gibraltar. He was gold to Goodson, always professional and much more even-keeled. He directed all of Goodson's pilots including rehearsals which went on until 10 o'clock at night.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'214643\' date=\'May 1 2009, 05:36 PM\']
[quote name=\'davemackey\' post=\'214636\' date=\'May 1 2009, 03:05 PM\']
Who was the AD? Bob Gray?
[/quote]
I said "cranky". Worthy of the monicker "Little Breslow".
[/quote]
Okay, we've outed Eskander.
Can any Price-niks remember who was Eskander's first AD? Was it Andy Felsher? I'm certain that Fred Witten joined in the middle of Eskander's reign - I think Freddy was still working on "Wheel of Fortune".
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who was Eskander's first AD? Was it Andy Felsher?
No, the building would have shaken so violently that it would have collapsed and there would be a shopping center today at the corner of Beverly and Fairfax.
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^Speaking of collapsing, I was in the building one day when the Fire Department was swarming all over with instruments and meters. Turns out that TV City sits on a huge natural underground gas deposit connected to the La Brea Tarpits which besides being potentially toxic, could blow at anytime like a giant Molotov Cocktail, or dissappear into an imploding sink hole! Kinda scary! Think about that next time you attend a taping (hee, hee!).
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'214668\' date=\'May 1 2009, 07:13 PM\']
^Speaking of collapsing, I was in the building one day when the Fire Department was swarming all over with instruments and meters. Turns out that TV City sits on a huge natural underground gas deposit connected to the La Brea Tarpits which besides being potentially toxic, could blow at anytime like a giant Molotov Cocktail, or dissappear into an imploding sink hole! Kinda scary! Think about that next time you attend a taping (hee, hee!).
[/quote]
Yep, that giant gas deposit was the cause of a 1985 methane explosion in the basement of a Ross store near TV City, which halted construction on the Wilshire subway, which is why it currently only goes as far west as Vermont Avenue.
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pentellit, welcome to the board. :) Being in the industry myself and felt those wraths you mentioned within this thread, you have my respect.
-Dan
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[quote name=\'davemackey\' post=\'214655\' date=\'May 1 2009, 08:53 PM\']Can any Price-niks remember who was Eskander's first AD? Was it Andy Felsher? I'm certain that Fred Witten joined in the middle of Eskander's reign - I think Freddy was still working on "Wheel of Fortune".[/quote]
I seem to remember that it was Bob Welsh, although I don't think he lasted very long. I want to say Witten was there by the end of Season 29.
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I seem to remember that it was Bob Welsh, although I don't think he lasted very long.
Any relation to Barbara Hunter-Welsh?
I was in the building one day when the Fire Department was swarming all over with instruments and meters. Turns out that TV City sits on a huge natural underground gas deposit connected to the La Brea Tarpits which besides being potentially toxic, could blow at anytime like a giant Molotov Cocktail
Pentellit, there have been days when I wished that whole building would have gone ka-blooey and taken all the CBS managers with it (with all of the Goodson people out of there, of course).
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'214676\' date=\'May 1 2009, 09:02 PM\']
(Bob Welsh) Any relation to Barbara Hunter-Welsh?[/quote]
Husband, great guy, great lady!
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'214678\' date=\'May 1 2009, 09:07 PM\']
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'214676\' date=\'May 1 2009, 09:02 PM\']
(Bob Welsh) Any relation to Barbara Hunter-Welsh?[/quote]
Husband, great guy, great lady![/quote]
Are they still married?
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'214679\' date=\'May 1 2009, 09:33 PM\']
[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'214678\' date=\'May 1 2009, 09:07 PM\']
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'214676\' date=\'May 1 2009, 09:02 PM\']
(Bob Welsh) Any relation to Barbara Hunter-Welsh?[/quote]
Husband, great guy, great lady![/quote]
Are they still married?
[/quote]
She still uses his name, Welsh.
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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So they're not married.
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[quote name=\'TroubadourNando\' post=\'214648\' date=\'May 1 2009, 08:03 PM\'][quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'214632\' date=\'May 1 2009, 05:49 PM\']
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'214631\' date=\'May 1 2009, 05:46 PM\']
I'm under the impression Barker was a nice guy in the beginning, but got harder and harder to work with as time went on. Am I on track?[/quote]
I read somewhere (prolly here) that a lot of it stemmed (understandably) from his wife Dorothy Jo's death in 1981. Someone mentioned that she held him in line in many cases, esp. his attitude.
[/quote]
This is what I personally agree with, and why in the end I actually pity him.
[/quote]
I have no pity at all for him. Even if his wife kept his ego in check, bottom line he brought all the lawsuits and stuff on himself. He has a "Napoleon Complex" and thinks everything should revolve around him. People like that I can't stand or deal with.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'214631\' date=\'May 1 2009, 02:46 PM\']pentellit, interesting story. Just out of curiousity, do you recall approximately what year this occurred? I'm under the impression Barker was a nice guy in the beginning, but got harder and harder to work with as time went on. Am I on track?[/quote]
Hi Ian, Sorry I don't remember what year that was. It was my experience that Barker's outbursts became more frequent as the years went by, and were really bad in his last years hosting.
Regarding Barker becoming progressively more difficult to work with (and for), it seemd to be directly related to the popularity of the show. As the Wolpert produced show became more and more popular and eventually went to an hour (a first in game show history), Barker's ego became proportionately more inflated with the show's success. I thought he was an ass**** long before his wife died, i.e. about the time he wanted the name of the show to be changed to Bob Barker's Price Is Right, and around the same time he also insisted on being made Exec. Producer so he could fire director Marc Breslow.
I personally think Barker was an ass all along, but that it was only as the show became bigger, his gynormous ego became apparent and ultimately out of control, especially after Mark Goodson died.
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215292\' date=\'May 9 2009, 02:08 PM\']i.e. about the time he wanted the name of the show to be changed to Bob Barker's Price Is Right[/quote]
Approves (http://\"http://www.speakers.co.uk/csaWeb/media/pix/h250/BRUFOR_h250.jpg\")
/hotlinked like a streak
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'215293\' date=\'May 9 2009, 02:11 PM\']hotlinked like a streak[/quote]
Hi, I'm still learning post-speak, what does "/hotlinked like a streak" mean?
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215295\' date=\'May 9 2009, 04:22 PM\'][quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'215293\' date=\'May 9 2009, 02:11 PM\']hotlinked like a streak[/quote]
Hi, I'm still learning post-speak, what does "/hotlinked like a streak" mean?
[/quote]
The picture Chris L. linked to is of Bruce Forsyth, a big presenter in the UK, but who's one U.S. show of note (at least among us) was a show called "Bruce Forsyth's Hot Streak" (IIRC, aired opposite TPiR and WoF in the 11AM ET slot on ABC in 1986).
So Chris did a little play on words with both the link and the slashie.
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Thanks SRIV94 for interpreting for me. Now how in post-speak, or what emoticon, do I express "Waaaaay over my head"! :)
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'215297\' date=\'May 9 2009, 05:52 PM\']So Chris did a little play on words with both the link and the slashie.[/quote]A "slashie", if you didn't know, is also just a little aside in the post, usually a joke or a sort of reference.
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215298\' date=\'May 9 2009, 04:59 PM\']Thanks SRIV94 for interpreting for me. Now how in post-speak, or what emoticon, do I express "Waaaaay over my head"! :)[/quote]
First, you're welcome.
Second, we usually use "Whoosh" (but directed at someone else, not at themselves).
Third, you can call me Doug. Almost everyone else does. :)
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he wanted the name of the show to be changed to Bob Barker's Price Is Right
I never heard this one, either during or after my time at G-T. Pentellit, do you think Dennis James leaving the show had anything to do with Barker's increased sense of self importance, as he was no longer one of two emcees doing the same show?
This is what most of the fan base wants to believe: that Barker was the sole reason for the show's success, and that the format and production values all count for nothing. I point out that without the pricing games, the set, the music, the direction, etc. that Barker would have nothing to do but stand on the lip of the stage with his skinny microphone and talk to the audience, but they won't hear of it. The fact is, Dennis James' nighttime version was quite popular on its own in syndication. When Barker got his bit part in Happy Gilmore in 1996, it seemed that every college student with access to a TV set suddenly became a huge Barker fan and entire dormitories made pilgrimages to Hollywood to see the Great One in person. When Barker announced his retirement, there was great weeping and wailing among the fans and one person even posted that Barker was like a second father to him, which has become a running joke around here. My theory is that the bulk of the credit for TPIR as we knew it under the Goodsons goes to Frank Wayne. As pompous as he was, he was a talented man, no doubt about it.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215305\' date=\'May 9 2009, 04:39 PM\']I never heard this one, either during or after my time at G-T.[/quote]
I'm going from an interview with Holly Hallstrom.
Q. Why was Bob angry at Mr. Goodson?
A. Barker wanted the name of the show to be changed to Bob Barker's The Price Is Right.
Q. Who told you that?
A. Mark. (Goodson)
Q. What did Mr. Goodson say?
A. Absolutely not!
Holly Hallstrom
Los Angeles 2001
Pentellit, do you think Dennis James leaving the show had anything to do with Barker's increased sense of self importance, as he was no longer one of two emcees doing the same show?
Again from interview;
A. Barker loved (emphatic)I mean he LOVED when a nightime Price was cancelled. No matter who was hosting. He was, he was like, giddy he was so happy.
Holly Hallstrom
Los Angeles 2005
My theory is that the bulk of the credit for TPIR as we knew it under the Goodsons goes to Frank Wayne. As pompous as he was, he was a talented man, no doubt about it.
My understanding has always been that it was Mark Goodson and Jay Wolpert who were responsible for the success of TPir.
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My theory is that Frank came up with the idea of reviving it, playing all One Bids followed by the stage games we know today, the showcases, etc. The old TPIR with Bill Cullen was less formatted and they made up a lot of it as they went along. The old TPIR was in dreary black & white for the most part, had dreary sets, dreary music and dreary old Don Pardo. Being in snappy color with a snappy set and snappy music and snappy Johnny Olson reading the copy made a huge difference, combined with Breslow's snappy directing.
Also snappier models than June Ferguson and Toni Wallace: http://timstvshowcase.com/priceis2.jpg (http://\"http://timstvshowcase.com/priceis2.jpg\")
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215325\' date=\'May 10 2009, 02:46 AM\']I'm going from an interview with Holly Hallstrom.
Q. Why was Bob angry at Mr. Goodson?
A. Barker wanted the name of the show to be changed to Bob Barker's The Price Is Right.
Q. Who told you that?
A. Mark. (Goodson)
Q. What did Mr. Goodson say?
A. Absolutely not!
Holly Hallstrom
Los Angeles 2001[/quote]
Were the "personalized" Pricing Games (Barker's Bargain Bar, Trader Bob, etc...) named in lieu of giving Bob the ultimate title he so wanted, or were these PGs fodder for Bob to want even more?
Im sure ol' Zeke was just tickled to find out when "Bruce's Price Is Right" was given the greenlight in England!!!
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'215327\' date=\'May 10 2009, 09:09 AM\']Were the "personalized" Pricing Games (Barker's Bargain Bar, Trader Bob, etc...) named in lieu of giving Bob the ultimate title he so wanted, or were these PGs fodder for Bob to want even more?[/quote]
Interesting list of "Barker" debuts:
Barker's Bargain Bar: 4/22/80
Trader Bob: 4/29/80
Barkers Markers: 9/12/94
You might be on to something.
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[quote name=\'tpirfan28\' post=\'215329\' date=\'May 10 2009, 09:51 AM\'][quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'215327\' date=\'May 10 2009, 09:09 AM\']Were the "personalized" Pricing Games (Barker's Bargain Bar, Trader Bob, etc...) named in lieu of giving Bob the ultimate title he so wanted, or were these PGs fodder for Bob to want even more?[/quote]
Interesting list of "Barker" debuts:
Barker's Bargain Bar: 4/22/80
Trader Bob: 4/29/80
Barkers Markers: 9/12/94
You might be on to something.
[/quote]
IIRC wasn't there a game on Truth or Consequences named after Zeke? (I believe it was the game that had a revolving box with 4 drawers)?
/I'm not defending him. Just wondering how long his unchecked ego really lasted.
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You might be on to something.
[/quote]
IIRC wasn't there a game on Truth or Consequences named after Zeke? (I believe it was the game that had a revolving box with 4 drawers)?
/I'm not defending him. Just wondering how long his unchecked ego really lasted.
[/quote]
Wikipedia (as always, issues about accuracy) refers to a game called "Barker's Box" played on ToC when Zeke hosted.
JD
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I thought it was Bobbo's Box for some reason.
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[quote name=\'colonial\' post=\'215334\' date=\'May 10 2009, 12:17 PM\']Wikipedia (as always, issues about accuracy) refers to a game called "Barker's Box" played on ToC when Zeke hosted.
JD[/quote]
Well, this time the Wiki is right.
(IIRC was the last game played on each show.)
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'215341\' date=\'May 10 2009, 01:12 PM\'](IIRC was the last game played on each show.)[/quote]
I don't remember it being on *every* show, but it was on a lot.
(This is, mind you, thirty-year-old memories I'm going on here. But it sticks in my head because it was one of my favorites.)
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Bob Barker's Lucky Seven is a game I never want to see played if it's anything like the All-New Monty Hall Problem.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215353\' date=\'May 10 2009, 02:59 PM\']Bob Barker's Lucky Seven is a game I never want to see played if it's anything like the All-New Monty Hall Problem.[/quote]
How about Bob Barker's Hole in One?
/Or Two?
//Here we go again.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215353\' date=\'May 10 2009, 02:59 PM\']Bob Barker's Lucky Seven is a game I never want to see played if it's anything like the All-New Monty Hall Problem.[/quote]
There's a joke in here about the ten-peckered owl, whose pants fit him like a glove.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'215342\' date=\'May 10 2009, 04:16 PM\'][quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'215341\' date=\'May 10 2009, 01:12 PM\'](IIRC was the last game played on each show.)[/quote]
I don't remember it being on *every* show, but it was on a lot.
(This is, mind you, thirty-year-old memories I'm going on here. But it sticks in my head because it was one of my favorites.)
[/quote]
My guess is that Barker's Box was used to fill the time when their 2 or 3 planned segments on each show ran short.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215305\' date=\'May 9 2009, 07:39 PM\']
he wanted the name of the show to be changed to Bob Barker's Price Is Right
I never heard this one, either during or after my time at G-T. Pentellit, do you think Dennis James leaving the show had anything to do with Barker's increased sense of self importance, as he was no longer one of two emcees doing the same show?[/quote]
I'm sure Miss P. has answered this one but I wanted to jump in - this was pretty much the same deal as Chuck Barris taking over the nighttime Gong Show from Gary Owens. Barris was not yet sole owner of the Gong Show - there was that pesky Chris Bearde partnership, and with Barris ousting Owens (clearly a Bearde hire), that just gave Chuck more of the upper hand. By maneuvering himself into the nighttime seat of power, that gave Barker much more leverage.
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You're reading an awful lot into it, Dave. I have no reason to believe Barker "maneuvered himself" into the nighttime show. I do know that they needed to replace Dennis James and Barker was the logical first choice. The money must have been good enough because adding a nighttime show meant doing three shows per day, something Barker had actively resisted for the daytime show.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215383\' date=\'May 11 2009, 06:15 AM\']The money must have been good enough because adding a nighttime show meant doing three shows per day, something Barker had actively resisted for the daytime show.[/quote]
How often were they taping the nighttime show, anyway? After all, they only did 39 episodes per season...they might not even have needed to be done during the same session as the daytime show.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215383\' date=\'May 11 2009, 05:15 AM\']You're reading an awful lot into it, Dave. I have no reason to believe Barker "maneuvered himself" into the nighttime show. I do know that they needed to replace Dennis James and Barker was the logical first choice. The money must have been good enough because adding a nighttime show meant doing three shows per day, something Barker had actively resisted for the daytime show.[/quote]
I had always assumed James was let go in favor of Barker. Did Dennis James, in fact, leave on his own terms?
I have to say, during the first few years of the show's run I saw a lot more of James' version than Barker's. There were no other game shows on Saturday nights, and the daytime run was generally at times too early to watch (i.e. I'd get home at 3:30 or so from school, in time for Match Game but too late from Price.
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When I was in L.A. in 1977, the did three TPIR shows during one of the taping days. They did one hour-long daytime show and two half-hour nighttime shows. Barker had just signed on as the nighttime host, so it was possible to do this. Doing two half-hour shows meant 12 people were chosen. At the nighttime taping, someone in the audience asked why Dennis wasn't hosting. Bob's response was "He didn't want to host it anymore." I think I read somewhere, possibly in TV Guide that Dennis didn't like the terms of his new contract. How true that was I don't know. I also read that Dennis had trouble learning some of the newer games. From what I saw, he handled The Clock Game OK, and I think that was the most difficult game he had to handle.
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I personally think Barker was an ass all along, but that it was only as the show became bigger, his gynormous ego became apparent and ultimately out of control, especially after Mark Goodson died.
You know, the more I read about this the more this reminds me of another person we heard became an ass - Richard Dawson. Seems to be a lot of similarities between the two.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'215423\' date=\'May 11 2009, 04:49 PM\']You know, the more I read about this the more this reminds me of another person we heard became an ass - Richard Dawson. Seems to be a lot of similarities between the two.[/quote]
Paul Alter had a book proposal a few years back that had both Dawson and Barker in his "difficult people to work with" category.
Dawson, however, never got sued. And being out of work for the better part of nine years was probably a pretty humbling experience.
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Did Paul write anything about John Bartholomew Tucker?
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' post=\'215391\' date=\'May 11 2009, 01:35 PM\'][quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215383\' date=\'May 11 2009, 05:15 AM\']You're reading an awful lot into it, Dave. I have no reason to believe Barker "maneuvered himself" into the nighttime show. I do know that they needed to replace Dennis James and Barker was the logical first choice. The money must have been good enough because adding a nighttime show meant doing three shows per day, something Barker had actively resisted for the daytime show.[/quote]
I had always assumed James was let go in favor of Barker. Did Dennis James, in fact, leave on his own terms?
[/quote]
It's not clear why exactly Dennis's contract wasn't renewed. The facts of the matter are, however, according to various articles in Variety at the time, Dennis's contract was expiring in 1977. The contract was only for 5 years. Barker would not have been available to do Nighttime Price had Truth or Consequences still been in production. Somehow, for some reason, it had been out of production for quite some time by that point, but the show had taped extremely far in advance, so "new" episodes were still airing. The show was set to go back into production for the 77-78 season, with Barker as host, but he had signed on to host Nighttime Price before Ralph Edwards got the chance to sign him on for another season of TorQ. So that show ended up with Bob Hilton (and failed) and Nighttime Price ended up with 3 years of Barker hosting.
Greg
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I wouldn't know whether to actually BELIEVE that Bob pushed to have TPIR called "Bob Barker's The Price is Right", but consider the following...
Show #5001, studio 33 is called The Bob Barker Studio
Sometime around season 30 (maybe I'm off by a year or two) the area where people are waiting in line is called the Bob Barker Prominade.
When Balance Game returned in a different format, the Barker Dollars returned. (whether the coins actually had Barker's face as in the original Balance Game, we may never know)
I don't know if Barker had any direct influence on the above, but one would wonder if CBS just did these things arbitrarily in an effort to get Bob to continue hosting Price.
I wonder why Bob would want his name attached to the show's title. I don't believe there were any other game shows on the air during Price's run that had the host's name included in the title. Can you imagine what might've happened if Bob got his way? We'd see Richard Dawson's Family Feud, Allen Ludden's Password Plus, Gene Rayburn and John Bauman's Match Game/Hollywood Squares Hour, etc.
While I doubt this had much to do with ego, Bob mentions in his book that during T or C, he was billed UNDER Doughnuts! The marquis on the theatre said "Doughnuts and Bob Barker". He said once T or C hit its stride, he had the billing changed to "Bob Barker and Doughnuts"
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[quote name=\'whewfan\' post=\'215434\' date=\'May 11 2009, 07:43 PM\']I wonder why Bob would want his name attached to the show's title. I don't believe there were any other game shows on the air during Price's run that had the host's name included in the title. Can you imagine what might've happened if Bob got his way? We'd see Richard Dawson's Family Feud, Allen Ludden's Password Plus, Gene Rayburn and John Bauman's Match Game/Hollywood Squares Hour, etc.[/quote]
Bruce Forsyth's Hot Streak...oh, and Bobcat's Big-Ass Show.
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[quote name=\'whewfan\' post=\'215434\' date=\'May 11 2009, 07:43 PM\']When Balance Game returned in a different format, the Barker Dollars returned. (whether the coins actually had Barker's face as in the original Balance Game, we may never know)[/quote]
They were exactly the same props.
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It's not clear why exactly Dennis's contract wasn't renewed.
It is clear why. G-T didn't feel his emcee skills were up to snuff. I'm told Frank Wayne used to scream at him. He only did a subset of the pricing games Barker was doing on the daytime show. So they opted for Barker, who was available, and to let Dennis' contract lapse.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215437\' date=\'May 11 2009, 04:54 PM\']
It's not clear why exactly Dennis's contract wasn't renewed.
It is clear why. G-T didn't feel his emcee skills were up to snuff. I'm told Frank Wayne used to scream at him. He only did a subset of the pricing games Barker was doing on the daytime show. So they opted for Barker, who was available, and to let Dennis' contract lapse.
[/quote]
That's funny, because in 1972, didn't GT want Dennis James over Bob Barker?
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[quote name=\'Kevin Prather\' post=\'215439\' date=\'May 11 2009, 08:02 PM\'][quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215437\' date=\'May 11 2009, 04:54 PM\']
It's not clear why exactly Dennis's contract wasn't renewed.
It is clear why. G-T didn't feel his emcee skills were up to snuff. I'm told Frank Wayne used to scream at him. He only did a subset of the pricing games Barker was doing on the daytime show. So they opted for Barker, who was available, and to let Dennis' contract lapse.
[/quote]
That's funny, because in 1972, didn't GT want Dennis James over Bob Barker?
[/quote]
Considering that James was in the pitchfilm with Goodson, it would seem that they preferred him. IIRC CBS wanted Barker because he was under contract with nothing to do. Except the pageants and Rose Parade.
To all who were there, please clarify. Thanks.
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[quote name=\'whewfan\' post=\'215434\' date=\'May 11 2009, 04:43 PM\']I wonder why Bob would want his name attached to the show's title. (note; see; "Bob Barker's Fun And Games Show).Can you imagine what might've happened if Bob got his way? We'd see Richard Dawson's Family Feud, Allen Ludden's Password Plus, Gene Rayburn and John Bauman's Match Game/Hollywood Squares Hour, etc.[/quote]
...or worse! I think that if Barker had gotten his way, we'd be seeing much more than Stage 33 =The Bob Barker Studio. I think we'd be seeing the new "Bob Barker's Television City", or CBS=Continuous Bob Shows, and the ABAD Cable Network (All Bob All Day), and of course Bob Barker's CSI, Bob Barker's American Idol, Bob Barker's Columbia Space Shuttle, Bob Barker's UCRAP (Ultra Conservative Republican American Party), Bob Barker's White House, Bob Barker's Statue Of Liberty.......OMG! Where would it end????
Thank goodness Mark Goodson just said "No!".
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215437\' date=\'May 11 2009, 07:54 PM\']It is clear why. G-T didn't feel his emcee skills were up to snuff. I'm told Frank Wayne used to scream at him. He only did a subset of the pricing games Barker was doing on the daytime show. So they opted for Barker, who was available, and to let Dennis' contract lapse.[/quote]When you say a "subset", how many are you talking about? If I've counted right, there were 36 games in the rotation on the daytime show before the 77-78 season when Barker took over. Did the games that were featured on the daytime show but not the nighttime show to that point eventually make the move to nighttime?
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215444\' date=\'May 11 2009, 08:51 PM\']OMG! Where would it end????[/quote]
The United States of Bob Barker.
/Jack Bauer couldn't even save us then
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[quote name=\'joker316\' post=\'215441\' date=\'May 11 2009, 05:29 PM\']Considering that James was in the pitchfilm with Goodson, it would seem that they preferred him. IIRC CBS wanted Barker because he was under contract with nothing to do. Except the pageants and Rose Parade. To all who were there, please clarify. Thanks.[/quote]
Without sounding like a shameless plug, the story is in the forthcoming bio on Johnny Olson. The history of the show that Johnny is most identified with is part of his tale - just hope the publisher agrees as the manuscript is presently being edited!
Briefly, Goodson was originally developing the 1972 revamp of "Price" for syndication, and Dennis was the choice for host. Plans for the daytime CBS version came during that development process, and Bud Grant at the network very strongly suggested that Barker host the network version. CBS had no creative involvement with the syndie show, and Dennis remained as the intended host.
The lesser known part of the story is that Barker, after seeing the early runthroughs, called Bud Grant for a lunch meeting to tell Grant that he didn't want to do "Price"! Unsure about the format he asked to be assigned to "Joker's Wild" or Gambit" instead. Wait for the summer/fall and read all about it ;-)
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215444\' date=\'May 11 2009, 07:51 PM\']OMG! Where would it end????[/quote]
Don't forget the law requiring all newborns first and middle names must be "Bob Barker", regardless of gender.
And our new hyper-inflated currency: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a357/JRa...trillionzim.jpg (http://\"http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a357/JRaygor/trillionzim.jpg\")
/Credit to Mike Klauss for the pic.
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215444\' date=\'May 11 2009, 08:51 PM\'][quote name=\'whewfan\' post=\'215434\' date=\'May 11 2009, 04:43 PM\']I wonder why Bob would want his name attached to the show's title. (note; see; "Bob Barker's Fun And Games Show).Can you imagine what might've happened if Bob got his way? We'd see Richard Dawson's Family Feud, Allen Ludden's Password Plus, Gene Rayburn and John Bauman's Match Game/Hollywood Squares Hour, etc.[/quote]
...or worse! I think that if Barker had gotten his way, we'd be seeing much more than Stage 33 =The Bob Barker Studio. I think we'd be seeing the new "Bob Barker's Television City", or CBS=Continuous Bob Shows, and the ABAD Cable Network (All Bob All Day), and of course Bob Barker's CSI, Bob Barker's American Idol, Bob Barker's Columbia Space Shuttle, Bob Barker's UCRAP (Ultra Conservative Republican American Party), Bob Barker's White House, Bob Barker's Statue Of Liberty.......OMG! Where would it end????
Thank goodness Mark Goodson just said "No!".
[/quote]
Bob Barker's Prison Supplies! Oh, wait.... (http://\"http://www.bobbarker.com\")
As an aside...pentellit, maybe I'm reading too much into a silly joke, but was Bob really that conservative? I always thought he wasn't, with his animal rights campaign and all, but I suppose he could be conservative on other issues...
--Sam
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[quote name=\'SamJ93\' post=\'215456\' date=\'May 11 2009, 08:01 PM\']...was Bob really that conservative?[/quote]
I always thought he was. Like old school ultra Right Wing. According to witness testimony he restricted the number of African American contestants allowed per show, and they had to fit a negative stereotype, I mean...in this day and age? He might as well in my book have gone out on stage wearing a sheet and carrying a burning cross. What a "hateful old man" (to quote former employees).
PS I absolutely love that in the end it was an African American WOMAN who did him in!
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[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'215445\' date=\'May 11 2009, 08:53 PM\'][quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215437\' date=\'May 11 2009, 07:54 PM\']It is clear why. G-T didn't feel his emcee skills were up to snuff. I'm told Frank Wayne used to scream at him. He only did a subset of the pricing games Barker was doing on the daytime show. So they opted for Barker, who was available, and to let Dennis' contract lapse.[/quote]When you say a "subset", how many are you talking about? If I've counted right, there were 36 games in the rotation on the daytime show before the 77-78 season when Barker took over. Did the games that were featured on the daytime show but not the nighttime show to that point eventually make the move to nighttime?[/quote]
Lemme pull out my handy-dandy spreadsheet.
In the first season, the nighttime show used Any Number (32 times!), Bonus Game, Double Prices, Grocery Game, Clock Game, Double Bullseye, Five Price Tags, Most Expensive, and Range Game (just once, as it was introduced in the spring). (No stats were ever kept on Double Bullseye, but I think a friend and I once figured out from the stats for all the other games that it must have been played twice.)
In the second season, Double Prices and Most Expensive were taken out of the rotation, and Lucky $even was added. (Actually, I've wondered if maybe the stats for Most Expensive are just missing -- its disappearance doesn't make a lot of sense, and the stats I do have only list enough games for 35 episodes.)
In the third season, Most Expensive returned (if it was ever really gone), Double Prices was played once (its last nighttime appearance of the James era), and Shell Game and Money Game were added. Bonus Game continued to be played regularly, even though it was out of the rotation on the daytime show for almost the whole season.
In the fourth season, 1 Right Price and Race Game were added.
In the fifth season, they added several of the games that had been introduced the previous season on the daytime show -- Cliff Hangers, Danger Price, 3 Strikes, Dice Game, and Hurdles. (Incidentally, I just blew Syd Vinnedge's mind if he's reading this.)
Unfortunately, the stats on the Barker seasons were missing when I got this info, so I don't know anything about their game rotations.
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The lesser known part of the story is that Barker, after seeing the early runthroughs, called Bud Grant for a lunch meeting to tell Grant that he didn't want to do "Price"! Unsure about the format he asked to be assigned to "Joker's Wild" or Gambit" instead. Wait for the summer/fall and read all about it ;-)
I think I read a bit in Entertainment Weekly about that. Neither TJW or Gambit were audience participation shows, and frankly I can't picture Bob Barker hosting a straightforward Q&A show. Also, Bob didn't have "nothing to do", he was still doing Truth or Consequences.
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215457\' date=\'May 11 2009, 11:23 PM\'][quote name=\'SamJ93\' post=\'215456\' date=\'May 11 2009, 08:01 PM\']...was Bob really that conservative?[/quote]I always thought he was. Like old school ultra Right Wing. According to witness testimony he restricted the number of African American contestants allowed per show, and they had to fit a negative stereotype, I mean...in this day and age? He might as well in my book have gone out on stage wearing a sheet and carrying a burning cross. What a "hateful old man" (to quote former employees).
PS I absolutely love that in the end it was an African American WOMAN who did him in![/quote]
Okay, I know we all know Barker isn't a saint...but seriously, is anyone else starting to wonder about some of this?
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[quote name=\'whewfan\' post=\'215460\' date=\'May 11 2009, 10:30 PM\']I think I read a bit in Entertainment Weekly about that. Neither TJW or Gambit were audience participation shows, and frankly I can't picture Bob Barker hosting a straightforward Q&A show. Also, Bob didn't have "nothing to do", he was still doing Truth or Consequences.[/quote]
Hey, he hosted games other than audience participation. (http://\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYBpxMWgp6w\")
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Also, Bob didn't have "nothing to do", he was still doing Truth or Consequences.
In terms of his CBS contract at the time, he pretty much had nothing to do. The only things he was doing at the time were yearly events.
Okay, I know we all know Barker isn't a saint...but seriously, is anyone else starting to wonder about some of this?
And to the above post, I was under the impression it was more than one witness testimony who also stated that African American contestants were only allowed to two per show. I am also hoping that at the VERY least, this is false.
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[quote name=\'jimlangefan\' post=\'215464\' date=\'May 11 2009, 08:58 PM\']I was under the impression it was more than one witness testimony who also stated that African American contestants were only allowed to two per show. I am also hoping that at the VERY least, this is false.[/quote]
Sorry, "witnesses's". (Obviously I don't know the correct conjugation of the posessive plural of witness!). Witnesses's testimony-plural.
And as for it being false, TPTB gave it enough veracity that Deborah Curling announced her intention of suing, based on Barker's alleged racial discrimination, at 9:30 in the morning and that afternoon Bob Barker announced his retirement.
Curling's lawsuit is being taken very seriously. Just ask Dobkowitz and Eskander who were the others named in the suit.
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Curling's lawsuit is being taken very seriously. Just ask Dobkowitz and Eskander who were the others named in the suit.
As well as CBS, which is one of the basis for Chris Mann's book. According, so far to Chris Mann, CBS forced Barker into retirement because of this lawsuit because CBS was also named in the lawsuit. CBS had never been prior named in any of Barker's lawsuits.
Wow. As being an African-American myself, this is very disheartening to me. I thought it was just Phillip Wayne Rossi. I have grown disenchanted with Bob barker the more I found out about him, but this takes the cake. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. If he was willing to treat other people the way he did(mainly women), race shouldn't be far behind right?
But now that I think about on the episode on which I was chosen, I was the second and last black person chosen that day. And I was called before Pricing game #3. This was in the Carey era, but Roger was still producing & Eskander still directing. From a contestant point of view, there may be something to that.
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215465\' date=\'May 12 2009, 12:13 AM\']And as for it being false, TPTB gave it enough veracity that Deborah Curling announced her intention of suing, based on Barker's alleged racial discrimination, at 9:30 in the morning and that afternoon Bob Barker announced his retirement.[/quote]
Either that, or Barker had already decided to retire after the episode he'd taped the previous week during which he forgot how to play Dice Game in the middle of Dice Game.
There's multiple theories to this, and the more I hear from you about yours, the less convinced I am that you're actually feeding us hard facts.
[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215465\' date=\'May 12 2009, 12:13 AM\']Curling's lawsuit is being taken very seriously. Just ask Dobkowitz and Eskander who were the others named in the suit.[/quote]
Were you one of them?
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[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'215477\' date=\'May 12 2009, 07:40 AM\']There's multiple theories to this, and the more I hear from you about yours, the less convinced I am that you're actually feeding us hard facts.[/quote]
So basically you think he's a liar. I think that's hilarious considering you expect others to trust you on blind faith.
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I like that there are two camps on this issue, because both provide facts amidst their passionate arguing. It's nice to sit on the sidelines and be able to assess what they both have to say, and reach your own conclusion that way. Randy West's contribution many pages back was pointed, and helped me get a clearer focus on the TPIR drama.
-Jason
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[quote name=\'jimlangefan\' post=\'215473\' date=\'May 12 2009, 01:20 AM\']I have grown disenchanted with Bob barker the more I found out about him, but this takes the cake. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. If he was willing to treat other people the way he did(mainly women), race shouldn't be far behind right?[/quote]
From Court TV News:
"Moreover, Clement-Henry claims she was instructed to mark a "B" next to African American contestants, "'to make sure that no more than two African Americans are selected and to make sure they perpetuated racial stereotypes.'"” CourtTvNews 9-24-04
"Bob Barker is the boss from Hell."” Claudia Jordan
Sylvia Clement-Henry and Claudia Jordan, both African American, both sued Bob Barker, and the production company, and both recieved settlements.
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Anyone who believes a low-level CBS employee who became disgruntled and voluntarily quit her job brought down Barker, has been bidding "420" a few times too many, despite any on-line conspiracy theories you may have read.
As Steve correctly points out, Barker had some serious senior moments during the show and had wondered on the air whether he should see a psychiatrist. He apparently thought it over that weekend and announced his retirement the week after those shows were taped.
After all the millions spent defending Barker in myriad lawsuits and settling with former employees, do you really think a lawsuit from a CBS minion whose main complaint is that she was moved from a dressing room to an area backstage would make them drop Barker? Answer me this: Why didn't they drop Barker when Claudia and Sylvia brought their suits?
"420, Bob."
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215506\' date=\'May 12 2009, 02:04 PM\']As Steve correctly points out, Barker had some serious senior moments during the show and had wondered on the air whether he should see a psychiatrist. He apparently thought it over that weekend and announced his retirement the week after those shows were taped.[/quote]
I'm sorry, Chris, but when a guy refuses to provide hard evidence when confronted to provide it on potentially inflammatory statements, it's very hard to believe that anything he says is right.
Quite frankly, I give pentellit a lot more cred than I do Steve and it has absolutely nothing to do with my personal feelings towards the latter or lack thereof, no matter how many time he tries to convince himself otherwise.
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The info Steve gets, from best I can gather, somehow comes down the pike from people who are still employed or perhaps have something to lose by being outed. As far as I can tell, that's part of your beef with him.
On the flip side, has pentellit been able to provide "hard evidence?" I truly believe the backstage stuff pentellit is posting, but it seems just as good as Steve's anecdotal evidence. You would have to convince me better that you're not simply siding with pentellit because it's anti-Steve and/or supports views you otherwise agree with.
-Jason
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[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'215516\' date=\'May 12 2009, 03:35 PM\']On the flip side, has pentellit been able to provide "hard evidence?"[/quote]Her story is...[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'214333\' date=\'Apr 28 2009, 10:20 PM\']My dear friend Linda Riegert worked on Price for years. Over the years I spent a lot of time on the set and at TV City. I didn’t go to the Goodson offices often. I spent most of my time at Price hanging with Linda, and flirting with the crew and with the cute actors over on Y&R and B&B. I made a lot of friends on Price and at TV City.
Sadly Linda was one of the women Barker fired after she testified in his lawsuit against Holly. It was excruciatingly painful to watch my dear friend lose her job, her friends, her career, and her whole life as she knew it, all because she wouldn’t lie for Barker.[/quote]So in my estimation and gathering, most of the stories and insight she provides is from:
a) her first-hand witnessing of them
b) her friend Linda's witnessing/hearing of them
c) being retold them by contacts and friends she kept from the program.
It works just fine for me and, hey, she even gives us direct information of her source!
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[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'215516\' date=\'May 12 2009, 02:35 PM\']The info Steve gets, from best I can gather, somehow comes down the pike from people who are still employed or perhaps have something to lose by being outed. As far as I can tell, that's part of your beef with him[/quote]
You're right. My theory is this. If he comes out with something potentially damaging, then he shouldn't have any problem saying who he gets the information from. If he has any sort of reason not to say anything about who gave him said information, then he shouldn't bother posting it in the first place.
On the flip side, has pentellit been able to provide "hard evidence?" I truly believe the backstage stuff pentellit is posting, but it seems just as good as Steve's anecdotal evidence. You would have to convince me better that you're not simply siding with pentellit because it's anti-Steve and/or supports views you otherwise agree with.
-Jason
Okay, here we go.
Pentellit's actually citing where she got the information from. Steve is, for all intents and purposes, bowlingbuddying, and without at least some inkling as to where the info he has is coming from I really don't have any reason to believe him.
I'll repeat my point. I believe information should be freeflowing, no doubt about it. But if you're going to post something that's potentially damaging, you should have either the common sense or the guts to name your source. If you don't, then there really isn't any way I can take what you say seriously.
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You guys have been smoking so much 420 that it's now 840.
All you have to do is watch the episode on YouTube, taped the week before Barker announced his retirement. He screws up on Dice Game, he forgets Rich's name, and has a memory lapse on the One Bid prize. Then he asks whether he should see a psychiatrist. It clearly bothered him and may very well have led to the decision he made the following week. No point in excoriating Steve Gavazzi over it.
Now answer my question: Why didn't TPTB give Baker the heave-ho when Claudia and Sylvia brought their suits?
Have another fanb0i 420 (http://\"http://images-cdn01.associatedcontent.com/image/A1140/114025/300_114025.jpg\").
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215520\' date=\'May 12 2009, 03:30 PM\']All you have to do is watch the episode on YouTube, taped the week before Barker announced his retirement. He screws up on Dice Game, he forgets Rich's name, and has a memory lapse on the One Bid prize. Then he asks whether he should see a psychiatrist. It clearly bothered him and may very well have led to the decision he made the following week. No point in excoriating Steve Gavazzi over it.[/quote]
I'm not excoriating Steve Gavazzi over that.
I'm excoriating Steve Gavazzi for his repeated shortsightedness in his posting of potentially dangerous material and his, in turn, repeated stubbornness in refusing to name his sources.
And I hate to raise this point, but how come most other people get reamed for posting unsourced material and Steve doesn't? I'm almost certain that if I posted something like what Steve does my posting privileges would be suspended for a period of time, perhaps revoked.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215520\' date=\'May 12 2009, 04:30 PM\']You guys have been smoking so much 420 that it's now 840.[/quote]I certainly hope you're not referring to me as an insinuation would not be appreciated. I simply pointed out to Jason how our new friend gets her information.
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'215521\' date=\'May 12 2009, 01:38 PM\'][quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215520\' date=\'May 12 2009, 03:30 PM\']All you have to do is watch the episode on YouTube, taped the week before Barker announced his retirement. He screws up on Dice Game, he forgets Rich's name, and has a memory lapse on the One Bid prize. Then he asks whether he should see a psychiatrist. It clearly bothered him and may very well have led to the decision he made the following week. No point in excoriating Steve Gavazzi over it.[/quote]
I'm not excoriating Steve Gavazzi over that.
I'm excoriating Steve Gavazzi for his repeated shortsightedness in his posting of potentially dangerous material and his, in turn, repeated stubbornness in refusing to name his sources.
[/quote]
So you're OK with his recounting the "senior moments" episode on YouTube and dredging up past perceived infractions of his? And why are we bringing that up in this thread?
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'215521\' date=\'May 12 2009, 03:38 PM\']I'm excoriating Steve Gavazzi for his repeated shortsightedness in his posting of potentially dangerous material and his, in turn, repeated stubbornness in refusing to name his sources.[/quote]
I think of it like this: He gets some very juicy information, but it includes a disclaimer like this: "Please don't tell anyone it was me, because I have three kids in college and if I lose my job...", but then adds "But I feel people should know about this and feel it's worth the risk. But, I trust you to keep my anonymity to minimize it."
That's why I tend to not get too upset if Steve doesn't "out" his sources.
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When you "out" sources they stop being sources. Ask any reporter.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215524\' date=\'May 12 2009, 03:49 PM\'][quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'215521\' date=\'May 12 2009, 01:38 PM\'][quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215520\' date=\'May 12 2009, 03:30 PM\']All you have to do is watch the episode on YouTube, taped the week before Barker announced his retirement. He screws up on Dice Game, he forgets Rich's name, and has a memory lapse on the One Bid prize. Then he asks whether he should see a psychiatrist. It clearly bothered him and may very well have led to the decision he made the following week. No point in excoriating Steve Gavazzi over it.[/quote]
I'm not excoriating Steve Gavazzi over that.
I'm excoriating Steve Gavazzi for his repeated shortsightedness in his posting of potentially dangerous material and his, in turn, repeated stubbornness in refusing to name his sources.
[/quote]
So you're OK with his recounting the "senior moments" episode on YouTube and dredging up past perceived infractions of his? And why are we bringing that up in this thread?
[/quote]
Because I believe that pentellit's character is being attacked unfairly and that Steve doesn't get the same...well, consideration...when he posts what he does.
(I know pentellit doesn't need anyone to stick up for her, but I'm just calling as I see. And I also don't believe the "senior moments" thing is the sole reason why Barker decided to leave. In fact, I'm willing to bet that it doesn't have a lot. At all.)
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So why did Barker leave the show when he did? And for the third time, why didn't they toss him overboard when Claudia and Sylvia brought their suits? Or why didn't he retire when they did?
Have you ever even seen the "senior moments" episode?
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Well, I was warned that this place can get lively! So here I go with regards to the Curling lawsuit...
Like Claudia Jordan before her, Debbie Curling registered a complaint about Racial Discrimination on The Price Is Right. And like Jordan before her, Curling’s complaint was largely ignored. Both women took the issue to the next level up the ladder. Jordan went to Freemantle and Curling went to CBS. Jordan was fired off Price Is Right by Barker. Curling was given a complex legal document to sign containing numerous agreements, and on the advice of lawyers she refused to sign it. She was then informed that if she was to continue to work at CBS she would automatically be bound by the agreement even if she did not sign it.
Needless to say these were/are serious legal issues CBS was facing. If Curling sued and it goes to court and is proven that African Americans were denied the opportunity to be a contestant and potentially win cash and prizes based on their race, the words “class action suit” will be ringing in everyone ears.
Curling was given a deadline to sign the document/or continue working which in effect would mean agreeing to the terms and conditions of the agreement. Everyone waited to see what Curling was going to do. It was a very tense time at CBS, Freemantle and especially on 33. That whole week before Curling’s decision people were worried and preoccupied and there were numerous screw-ups, mishaps, stop tapes, including Barker flat out forgetting how to play a game.
The deadline day arrived, Curling refused to sign and had to quit her job in order to preserve her legal rights. Barker was immediately made aware of Curling’s decision. The impasse was over, the lawsuit against the network was in the works, and that afternoon Bob Barker announced his retirement.
Curling’s lawsuit named Roger Dobkowitz as having perpetrated the same essence of retaliation that Claudia Jordan had described experiencing after she also complained of Racial Discrimination on Price.
The key issue is twofold: when did CBS become aware of the conditions on Price that the lawsuit arises from, and what action did they take in response. Barker was out as of that day, Dobkowitz would be out at the end of the new host's first season. I believe that Eskander would have been kept on just thru the second season (IMO you cannot suddenly produce a show that size with a new host, new producer and a new director = disaster). But Curling’s most recent deposition was crucial regarding Eskander and he was gone within days after she testified.
I see that it’s common practice on game show boards to dismiss these people as merely “disgruntled employees”, if you don’t know the facts, or if the source of your information is primarily the Spin Doctors whose job it is to whitewash such situations. But I don’t consider these people “low level” minions who were merely unhappy over a triviality. These were hard working long time employees who lost their jobs, their retirement, their health care, their friends, their lives as they knew them all because they wouldn’t lie, wouldn’t allow themselves or others to be discriminated against, wouldn’t break the law. They are people who spoke out, spoke up, spoke truthfully, refused to have sex, or refused to sign compromising legal documents. They’re not dismissable sore losers, they’re people who had to make very hard choices. In the end they did what they felt was right, and they paid dearly for it.
With regards to the Jordan&Clement-Henry suits, the Curling lawsuit is the first lawsuit that has ever involved the network. It is also the most far reaching and potentially damaging of all. The Jordan&Clement-Henry suits were handled in-house by Freemantle and Barker. Curling did not work for either, she worked for CBS.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215533\' date=\'May 12 2009, 05:52 PM\']Have you ever even seen the "senior moments" episode?[/quote]I hadn't even heard about it until now and would like to see it.
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[quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'215536\' date=\'May 12 2009, 05:01 PM\'][quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215533\' date=\'May 12 2009, 05:52 PM\']Have you ever even seen the "senior moments" episode?[/quote]I hadn't even heard about it until now and would like to see it.[/quote]Nor had I.
I'm excoriating Steve Gavazzi for his repeated shortsightedness in his posting of potentially dangerous material and his, in turn, repeated stubbornness in refusing to name his sources.
As someone who has done reporting; you obviously don't know the dangers of a)giving information that the general public really shouldn't know about and b)If you do do it, not naming the person you got that information from.
But why bother, you just like to attack Steve without a good reason, so I suspect this will be moot.
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Question: Was Bob Barker an employee of CBS? If not, how could CBS force the retirement of someone who was not their employee?
I don't doubt your account of events, but how was Deborah Curling harmed by racial discrimination against potential contestants? She was not the victim of this discrimination as she was never a potential contestant.
Curling refused to sign and had to quit her job in order to preserve her legal rights.
It's clear Curling had the option of continuing to work and being bound by the CBS agreement.
when did CBS become aware of the conditions on Price that the lawsuit arises from, and what action did they take in response.
CBS does not own any part of TPIR so why is it their problem? It's Fremantle's problem; they own the show lock, stock and barrel.
As a G-T vet I can tell you that any game show is totally within its rights to cast or not cast anyone they please as a contestant, and to discriminate or not discriminate against any potential contestant. A game show is considered an artistic work and the producers have complete latitude in this area under the First Amendment. If you go down the path of discrimination on the basis of this, that or the other, there are serious First Amendment implications. Just as Steven Spielberg has complete and total freedom and latitude to cast or not cast anyone he want to in his motion pictures, Stan has complete and total freedom and latitude with regard to contestant selection.
It was a very tense time at CBS, Freemantle and especially on 33. That whole week before Curling’s decision people were worried and preoccupied and there were numerous screw-ups, mishaps, stop tapes, including Barker flat out forgetting how to play a game.
I don't doubt this, and it would account for Barker's fluff while playing Dice Game. Still, there are many, many pieces missing from this puzzle. Fremantle had a long history of defending Barker and settling with aggrieved parties and was named as a co-defendant in the suit. So why should they buckle when Deborah Curling sued?
I'm sorry but I have to say it: Deborah Curling was not a major player on the show. She was not in the cast, she was not a producer or director.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'215538\' date=\'May 12 2009, 05:21 PM\']
I'm excoriating Steve Gavazzi for his repeated shortsightedness in his posting of potentially dangerous material and his, in turn, repeated stubbornness in refusing to name his sources.
As someone who has done reporting; you obviously don't know the dangers of a)giving information that the general public really shouldn't know about and b)If you do do it, not naming the person you got that information from.
But why bother, you just like to attack Steve without a good reason, so I suspect this will be moot.
[/quote]
It will be because you, as always and unsurprisingly, MISSED MY POINT.
My theory is this...unless you have information that either a) could potentially compromise national security (in any way) or b) can cause immediate physical harm to someone, there is no reason not to name sources if called upon to do so. Since Steve's information does not fall into either category, then I believe that he has an obligation to at least give us some sort of hint as to who the information could've come from. And if he can't do that then the information probably shouldn't be relayed.
And if after all that he chooses to relay said information anyway, he shouldn't be surprised if someone chooses to call him on it. Granted, I'm the biggest offender in this case, but I have seen other cases on this forum where Steve's information has been called into question because of his reluctance to at least show some idea where this all comes from. I can understand that he doesn't want to name names but if he doesn't want to give a clue otherwise, then I really have no reason to take anything he says seriously. Ever.
(Finally completed that. I really need to stop hitting the post topic button when I've got more to say.)
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215535\' date=\'May 12 2009, 04:55 PM\']Well, I was warned that this place can get lively![/quote]
I assure you, it doesn't always get this dramatic.
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[quote name=\'J.R.\' post=\'215542\' date=\'May 12 2009, 03:31 PM\'][quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215535\' date=\'May 12 2009, 04:55 PM\']Well, I was warned that this place can get lively![/quote]
I assure you, it doesn't always get this dramatic.
[/quote]
We have some members who argue merely for the sake of arguing, and they are on our radar screen.
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'215541\' date=\'May 12 2009, 06:30 PM\']there is no reason not to name sources if called upon to do so.[/quote]Approves. (http://\"http://s3.amazonaws.com/findagrave/photos/2001/222/mccarthyjosephbio.jpg\")
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[quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'215545\' date=\'May 12 2009, 05:39 PM\']Approves. (http://\"http://s3.amazonaws.com/findagrave/photos/2001/222/mccarthyjosephbio.jpg\")[/quote]
Well played.
/Remind me not to trust PYLDude with a secret.
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215535\' date=\'May 12 2009, 05:55 PM\']But Curling’s most recent deposition was crucial regarding Eskander and he was gone within days after she testified.[/quote]
So Drew didn't fire him? Interesting
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215539\' date=\'May 12 2009, 03:27 PM\']Question: Was Bob Barker an employee of CBS? If not, how could CBS force the retirement of someone who was not their employee?[/quote]
Barker is a free agent. But he was also the Executive Producer of a show that CBS contracts for.
I don't doubt your account of events, but how was Deborah Curling harmed by racial discrimination against potential contestants? She was not the victim of this discrimination as she was never a potential contestant.
Curling's lawsuit is not about racial discrimination she experienced, it is about the retaliation she experienced after reporting it, which is illegal.
Curling refused to sign and had to quit her job in order to preserve her legal rights.
It's clear Curling had the option of continuing to work and being bound by the CBS agreement.
Part of the agreement was a non-disclosure/hush clause. Just like Hallstrom before her, Curling did not want to surrender her first amendment right to free speech, especially if it was not mutual and reciprocal. She would also have to agree that if a court later found the document to be illegal, it would still be binding. And alot of other agreements too numerous to name and certainly compromising to agree to.
when did CBS become aware of the conditions on Price that the lawsuit arises from, and what action did they take in response.
CBS does not own any part of TPIR so why is it their problem? It's Fremantle's problem; they own the show lock, stock and barrel.
The lawsuit is against CBS.
As a G-T vet I can tell you that any game show is totally within its rights to cast or not cast anyone they please as a contestant, and to discriminate or not discriminate against any potential contestant. A game show is considered an artistic work and the producers have complete latitude in this area under the First Amendment. If you go down the path of discrimination on the basis of this, that or the other, there are serious First Amendment issues involved. Just as Steven Spielberg has complete and total freedom and latitude to cast or not cast anyone he want to in his motion pictures, Stan has complete and total freedom and latitude with regard to contestant selection.
Not if the discrimination is based solely on race.
It was a very tense time at CBS, Freemantle and especially on 33. That whole week before Curling’s decision people were worried and preoccupied and there were numerous screw-ups, mishaps, stop tapes, including Barker flat out forgetting how to play a game.
I don't doubt this, and it would account for Barker's fluff while playing Dice Game. Still, there are many, many pieces missing from this puzzle. Fremantle had a long history of defending Barker and settling with aggrieved parties and was named as a co-defendant in the suit. So why should they buckle when Deborah Curling sued?
I suspect, and this is just my opinion based on the facts as I know them, that Freemantle was probably happy to finally get rid of Barker. All the lawsuits, the bad press, the millions spent on lawyers and payoffs, twenty years of the TPIR library unusable (and all that potential profit) because of Barker's death grip over it. The show's ratings had declined etc, etc, etc. This suit is also potentially bigger and badder than anything ever seen before.
I'm sorry but I have to say it: Deborah Curling was not a major player on the show. She was not in the cast, she was not a producer or director.
No she wasn't. But oh wow, she was the whistle blower!
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[quote name=\'cmjb13\' post=\'215549\' date=\'May 12 2009, 05:52 PM\'][quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215535\' date=\'May 12 2009, 05:55 PM\']But Curling’s most recent deposition was crucial regarding Eskander and he was gone within days after she testified.[/quote]
So Drew didn't fire him? Interesting
[/quote]
Wait...I think I'm confused here.
Who has the power to hire and fire the director of TPIR...CBS or Fremantle? (I'm lost because in all this talk about Deborah Curling being a CBS employee and not a G-T/successor, this comes up and now it has me scratching my head. Unless CBS put pressure on the producers of TPIR to do the deed, in which case it'd probably make sense...)
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QUOTE (PYLdude @ May 12 2009, 06:30 PM)
So Drew didn't fire him? Interesting.
I have not heard of Drew firing anyone.
Wait...I think I'm confused here.
Who has the power to hire and fire the director of TPIR...CBS or Fremantle? (I'm lost because in all this talk about Deborah Curling being a CBS employee and not a G-T/successor, this comes up and now it has me scratching my head. Unless CBS put pressure on the producers of TPIR to do the deed, in which case it'd probably make sense...)
I think that if this thing should go to court, then everyone is going to be eager to be able to say something to the effect of "As soon as we found out about the situation we .........."(fill in the blanks).
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With regard to PYLDude's retort, I was never trying to discredit pentellit. I believe his/her postings. These "walls" have been filled with people we take as being honest on face value. One person purported to be a former MGHSH contestant who apparently never was. That story was as valid on the surface as some tales of NYC Pyramid tapings that were posted. For all we know, pentellit could be somebody piecing together a backstory based on backstage info given on the internet and in lawsuits, peppered with a few names from the Price credits. Not that I believe that, but it's no more or less credible than Steve, who works on a website populated by past and present TPIR crew. Unless you want to believe Steve would make up pricing game line ups for over 30 years of shows, and minute details of episodes that haven't been rerun, he's gotta be getting the info from some credible source.
As for the whole naming sources thing, your standards are much too high. I had a friend in college who was a janitor. It was the highest paying job on campus - nearly $10 an hour. Once, his manager cut corners but not deep cleaning a mat on which a karate student had bled earlier in the day. He blew the whistle to the school paper, but chose to remain anonymous to protect his job. Pentellit is just as anonymous. And that's his/her right to bring us this inside information. The person you're defending has less abject credibility than Steve. And again, I take pentellit's posts as gospel until proven otherwise.
-Jason
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he was also the Executive Producer of a show that CBS contracts for.
Again, CBS has no ownership stake in TPIR, so how can they be held liable for the actions of Fremantle? I highly suspect that Barker was employed by Fremantle as Executive Producer. Can you prove me wrong? AFAIK there was no employment relationship between CBS and Barker.
Curling's lawsuit is not about racial discrimination she experienced, it is about the retaliation she experienced after reporting it, which is illegal.
She was moved to an area backstage and CBS wanted her to sign an agreement, but she would still be allowed to keep working, I presume at her same salary. Some retaliation.
Part of the agreement was a non-disclosure/hush clause. Just like Hallstrom before her, Curling did not want to surrender her first amendment right to free speech, especially if it was not mutual and reciprocal.
That was Deborah's decision.
The lawsuit is against CBS.
It's also against Fremantle; they're named as a co-defendant.
Not if the discrimination is based solely on race.
I highly doubt this. Can you cite a legitimate legal opinion? Name one casting director who has ever been sued for casting or not casting someone based on race where the plaintiff prevailed.
I suspect, and this is just my opinion based on the facts as I know them, that Fremantle was probably happy to finally get rid of Barker. All the lawsuits, the bad press, the millions spent on lawyers and payoffs, twenty years of the TPIR library unusable (and all that potential profit) because of Barker's death grip over it. The show's ratings had declined etc, etc, etc. This suit is also potentially bigger and badder than anything ever seen before.
I don't doubt that they finally wanted to be rid of him. Hell, if I were Mark Goodson I would have dumped him in 1986 when he wanted to be made E.P. while Frank was still alive and before he got mixed up with Dian. I would be willing to believe that, once named as defendants, CBS started putting a little pressure on Fremantle to get rid of Barker, but Fremantle ultimately had to do the deed due to the relationships of the various parties (you can't fire someone who isn't your employee, and you can't terminate a contract with someone you don't have a contract with).
Thanks for sharing this information, pentellit. This is all our own personal opinion, of course. And in the future, please preview your posts so that the quote formatting comes out OK. Thanks :-)
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215569\' date=\'May 12 2009, 07:25 PM\']
Curling's lawsuit is not about racial discrimination she experienced, it is about the retaliation she experienced after reporting it, which is illegal.
She was moved to an area backstage and CBS wanted her to sign an agreement, but she would still be allowed to keep working, I presume at her same salary. Some retaliation.[/quote]
Chris, this is the only part of your reply that I have to disagree with; FWIW, Curling can still be working in capacity but if they're diminishing her work after she blew the whistle on something - if memory serves me right, that's a legal Bozo no-no.
Pentellit said:
Well, I was warned that this place can get lively!
I'll be shortly be putting a proposal to rename the thread "Barker's Snarkers."
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I'd like to put forth a hypothetical here.
Suppose the staff did have to make markings on the contestant lists indicating when Stan picked a black person. Now, what if the reason they did this was not to limit things to two black people per day (a notion that I'm pretty sure watching a few episodes would make look ridiculous, anyway) but instead was to make sure they called at least one? Barker always said that they wanted The Price Is Right to be "a cross-section of America," so it's entirely possible that they wanted to fit in black people, Asian people, old people, military people, college people -- people who are generally viewed by the public as significant subsets of the total population -- any time they had someone from one of those groups who would make a good contestant. If they took extra care to mark when someone black was picked, maybe that's because they didn't want someone to turn on the show the morning they didn't pick one, see nine white people come on down, and think, "Wow, The Price Is Right is racist! They don't have any black contestants!"
Now, if this is what was happening, and a disgruntled employee decided she was going to take it public and omit the reasoning, wouldn't it make you a little nervous if you worked there? Even if it's being done for a completely legitimate reason, it sounds bad.
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[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'215571\' date=\'May 12 2009, 07:54 PM\']If they took extra care to mark when someone black was picked, maybe that's because they didn't want someone to turn on the show the morning they didn't pick one, see nine white people come on down, and think, "Wow, The Price Is Right is racist! They don't have any black contestants!"[/quote]
I don't know if it's just me, but I usually don't watch the show for the cross-section/sociological reasons. Just sayin.'
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[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'215571\' date=\'May 12 2009, 08:54 PM\']I'd like to put forth a hypothetical here.
Suppose the staff did have to make markings on the contestant lists indicating when Stan picked a black person. Now, what if the reason they did this was not to limit things to two black people per day (a notion that I'm pretty sure watching a few episodes would make look ridiculous, anyway) but instead was to make sure they called at least one?[/quote]
Then the next question I would ask is, "Were there any other demographic groups designated with such markings?" If there were, then the "diversity" argument would seem more plausible to me. I still wouldn't like it, because I don't think that certain contestants should be given preference because of said characteristics, but at least it would seem less sinister. If not, then I'd have to ask why blacks were singled out.
Of all the parts of all the lawsuits I can remember, this is the one that made the least sense to me. First off, who determined what "conforming to racial stereotypes" meant? What did that person arrive at? Being loud? Outgoing? Excitable? That describes 99% of TPIR contestants. Being heavy-set? Now we're down to maybe half. What if you had a black person that was in the military? Does that override the previous?
Steve's hypothetical put me in mind of the criticism Millionaire faced when it was big. I remember hearing that people were saying that because white, middle-aged professional males played more video games, they had an "unfair" advantage during the phone-in portion of the contestant selection process...or something. And deaf and blind people sued (http://\"http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:bMPRx_nv2UQJ:caselaw.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl%3Fcourt%3D11th%26navby%3Ddocket%26no%3D0111197opn+RENDON+V+VALLEYCREST&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us\"), and it was a big mess, and eventually they dropped the phone-in game. Maybe something similar was at work there.
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[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'215541\' date=\'May 12 2009, 06:30 PM\']My theory is this...unless you have information that either a) could potentially compromise national security (in any way) or b) can cause immediate physical harm to someone, there is no reason not to name sources if called upon to do so.[/quote]
Quoted just to note that this is an extremely narrow view of how anonymous sources work. There simply are other reasons.
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215535\' date=\'May 12 2009, 04:55 PM\']These were hard working long time employees who lost their jobs, their retirement, their health care, their friends, their lives as they knew them all because they wouldn’t lie, wouldn’t allow themselves or others to be discriminated against, wouldn’t break the law. They are people who spoke out, spoke up, spoke truthfully, refused to have sex, or refused to sign compromising legal documents.[/quote]
BOOOOOO!
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Curling can still be working in capacity but if they're diminishing her work after she blew the whistle on something - if memory serves me right, that's a legal Bozo no-no.
As I understand it, as long as she is still receiving her full salary and benefits, they could literally have her stay home all day long and there would not be a problem. In fact, one of the networks actually used to do this. A number of their engineers who had become old fossils were kept on the payroll with full salary, benefits and even union protection, but they were not scheduled to work. They could play golf, go to the beach, visit the grandkids, whatever, and they didn't have to come in to work. It was basically a salaried early retirement.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215577\' date=\'May 12 2009, 06:25 PM\']
Curling can still be working in capacity but if they're diminishing her work after she blew the whistle on something - if memory serves me right, that's a legal Bozo no-no.
As I understand it, as long as she is still receiving her full salary and benefits, they could literally have her stay home all day long and there would not be a problem. In fact, one of the networks actually used to do this. A number of their engineers who had become old fossils were kept on the payroll with full salary, benefits and even union protection, but they were not scheduled to work. They could play golf, go to the beach, visit the grandkids, whatever, and they didn't have to come in to work. It was basically a salaried early retirement.
[/quote]
As I understand it, in the agreement Curling was given to sign, one of the clauses stated that in the event a court found the document illegal, if Curling kept her job she was agreeing that she would still be bound by it, even if it was illegal!
No way I'd sign it either, I don't care how much they paid me to stay home and play golf!
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Now, what if the reason they did this was not to limit things to two black people per day (a notion that I'm pretty sure watching a few episodes would make look ridiculous, anyway) but instead was to make sure they called at least one?
That's an interesting theory, Steve, and frankly after reading the lawsuit and seeing the remarks about Paul Alter, it wouldn't be the only thing I suspect may be fictional.
The more I think about this, the more the following scenario seems plausible:
Deborah Curling brought suit and for the first time, CBS (her employer) was named as a defendant in a lawsuit involving TPIR. To the best of my knowledge, Barker, Roger and Bart did not have contractual or employment relations with CBS but did with Fremantle. Upon being named as a defendant (in my scenario) CBS could have gone to Fremantle and said, "Look, if you want us to pick up TPIR for another season, Barker's gotta be out of there". Fremantle might have come back with, "You know, we're not crazy about Barker either, so let's have him retire." Done deal and Barker's fate is sealed. This might explain why CBS was so heavily involved with the selection of the new emcee, why Fremantle had to go off the lot to hold their own auditions, why CBS would not pay for a camera audition for Mark L. Walberg (whom some at Fremantle really liked), why Nina Tassler picked Drew for the job without an audition for TPIR -- it might explain a lot of things. This scenario fills in a lot of missing puzzle pieces, if true.
Note to attorneys reading this: all of the above is hypothetical and based on my conjecture, opinon and personal belief.
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[quote name=\'TeppanYaki\' post=\'215572\' date=\'May 12 2009, 06:15 PM\']I don't know if it's just me, but I usually don't watch the show for the cross-section/sociological reasons. Just sayin.'[/quote]I don't watch for that specifically, but I like the idea that they're trying to bring us something from every tray in the buffet that is America.
[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'215573\' date=\'May 12 2009, 06:17 PM\']Then the next question I would ask is, "Were there any other demographic groups designated with such markings?" If there were, then the "diversity" argument would seem more plausible to me. I still wouldn't like it, because I don't think that certain contestants should be given preference because of said characteristics, but at least it would seem less sinister. If not, then I'd have to ask why blacks were singled out.[/quote] But they are, because we see it all the time. Count the number of military guys, or college students, or pert young females. Or old people. Or whatever you look for. If I were to show up at TPIR dressed the way I go to work, I would expect not to get called. Since the show is a product, and the production company is trying to put out the best possible product. And if that means the show makes a conscious effort to have nine different archetypes of contestant, well, it's their dime, isn't it?
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I don't think he liked Samoans.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'215585\' date=\'May 12 2009, 09:31 PM\'][quote name=\'TeppanYaki\' post=\'215572\' date=\'May 12 2009, 06:15 PM\']I don't know if it's just me, but I usually don't watch the show for the cross-section/sociological reasons. Just sayin.'[/quote]I don't watch for that specifically, but I like the idea that they're trying to bring us something from every tray in the buffet that is America.[/quote]
I agree; my point is that I don't think a lot of us are pinpointing what the headcount is and then, if we don't like what we see, say "WELL THEY DIDN'T HAVE AN <insert ethnic group here> TODAY - RACISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
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The "cross-section of America" is a Mark Goodson thing. He really did want a panoply of types as contestants on his shows. I don't know where the alleged "two African American contestants per show" quota came from.
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[quote name=\'TeppanYaki\' post=\'215604\' date=\'May 13 2009, 09:15 AM\']I agree; my point is that I don't think a lot of us are pinpointing what the headcount is and then, if we don't like what we see, say "WELL THEY DIDN'T HAVE AN <insert ethnic group here> TODAY - RACISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"[/quote]
Well, that's because most of us are smarter than that. Not everyone in this country is that bright. I've read before that the show has received complaints in the past along the lines of, "I'm not a racist, but if I ever see two black people in the Showcase again, I'm never watching the show again." If there are people that Goddamn stupid on the "too many black people" side of the spectrum (not that anyone on that side of the spectrum is all that bright, but bear with me), then odds are they exist on the "not enough black people" side as well, and it's not hard to figure out which one the show is going to be more concerned about not having angry at them.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215617\' date=\'May 13 2009, 08:40 AM\']I don't know where the alleged "two African American contestants per show" quota came from.[/quote]
It came from witness testimony about Roger Dobkowitz explaining to Stan Blitz after one of Blitz's first times selecting contestants, in which Blitz chose several African Americans to be contestants (show #3054k) that Barker was not pleased. It also comes from testimony in the Sylvia Clement-Henry lawsuit in which she testified that she was instructed to place a "B" next to African Americans names so that there would not be more than two per show, and they would fit negative stereotypes.
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[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'215620\' date=\'May 13 2009, 09:09 AM\']If there are people that Goddamn stupid on the "too many black people" side of the spectrum (not that anyone on that side of the spectrum is all that bright, but bear with me), then odds are they exist on the "not enough black people" side as well[/quote]
Absolutely. Racism works in two directions. We just hear mostly about the direction that is more politically incorrect.
(Bill Cosby, for example, was pretty open about preferring to hire black people to work on The Cosby Show.)
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[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215622\' date=\'May 13 2009, 09:13 AM\'][quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215617\' date=\'May 13 2009, 08:40 AM\']I don't know where the alleged "two African American contestants per show" quota came from.[/quote]
It came from witness testimony about Roger Dobkowitz explaining to Stan Blitz after one of Blitz's first times selecting contestants, in which Blitz chose several African Americans to be contestants (show #3054k) that Barker was not pleased. It also comes from testimony in the Sylvia Clement-Henry lawsuit in which she testified that she was instructed to place a "B" next to African Americans names so that there would not be more than two per show, and they would fit negative stereotypes.
[/quote]
No, pentellit, you missed the point of my statement. Let's say for the sake of discussion that this quota exists. Who established it? Who made it policy? I'm sure you're going to say "Bob Barker" in his capacity as E.P.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'215635\' date=\'May 13 2009, 01:09 PM\'](Bill Cosby, for example, was pretty open about preferring to hire black people to work on The Cosby Show.)[/quote]
Brief hijack: I'm a white man married to a black woman. I used to see ads in my in-laws' copies of Ebony for a book Cosby wrote. Among other things, the ad said that Cosby expresses his opinion of mixed-race marriages. The wording, which I've forgotten, suggested that it wasn't favorable. I found that disturbing if true, and I wasn't about to put money in his pockets to find that out.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215636\' date=\'May 13 2009, 11:53 AM\']I'm sure you're going to say "Bob Barker" in his capacity as E.P.[/quote]
Who else? :)
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[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215579\' date=\'May 12 2009, 08:42 PM\']Deborah Curling brought suit and for the first time, CBS (her employer) was named as a defendant in a lawsuit involving TPIR. To the best of my knowledge, Barker, Roger and Bart did not have contractual or employment relations with CBS but did with Fremantle. Upon being named as a defendant (in my scenario) CBS could have gone to Fremantle and said, "Look, if you want us to pick up TPIR for another season, Barker's gotta be out of there". Fremantle might have come back with, "You know, we're not crazy about Barker either, so let's have him retire." Done deal and Barker's fate is sealed.
Note to attorneys reading this: all of the above is hypothetical and based on my conjecture, opinon and personal belief.[/quote]
This pretty much matches the theory I've come up with reading this thread. CBS didn't have any reason to care about how badly-behaved Barker was as long as it didn't impact their bottom line. Fremantle probably figured there was more money to be made with Barker than without him. The moment he started costing CBS, they used their leverage with Fremantle to push him out.
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This pretty much matches the theory I've come up with reading this thread. CBS didn't have any reason to care about how badly-behaved Barker was as long as it didn't impact their bottom line. Fremantle probably figured there was more money to be made with Barker than without him. The moment he started costing CBS, they used their leverage with Fremantle to push him out.
The only mystery is how much, if any, pressure CBS had to put on Fremantle. They may both have decided they'd had it with Barker and no pressure was needed. An important factor in this equation is, to the best of my knowledge, CBS had no employment or contractual relationship with Barker, Roger, Bart, etc. They all dealt with Fremantle, the production company. CBS could not get rid of Barker because he was not a contractor to them and he was not their employee as far as I know. CBS could, however, influence Fremantle to get rid of Barker.
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Hopping in the Wayback Machine™: Don Howard first reported Bob's announced retirement the morning of October 31st, 2006 prior to any official press release.
Don...do tell where that info came from? CBS????????
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As a public service - and I know we've linked to it before - here is the original complaint filed by Deborah Curling. I know we've long since answered the original question but this thread is just too juicy. Thanks be to Harvey Levin and his kids at TMZ.
http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/1004_bob_barker_wm.pdf (http://\"http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/1004_bob_barker_wm.pdf\")
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Thanks be to Harvey Levin and his kids at TMZ.
Kowabunga, dude! (http://\"http://rencsi.com/b/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/max-hodges.jpg\")