The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Jeremy Nelson on February 25, 2010, 02:39:57 PM
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The Double Jeopardy! round is coming to a close, and you're still playing catchup. On the next to last clue, you respond incorrectly. The leader gets it on the rebound, and then the comes the last clue, which so happens to be the second Daily Double. Correctly responding, the leader puts the game out of reach for you. During the last commercial break, the judges rule that you gave a correct response, yet the credited amount still doesn't give you a chance.
Under this scenario, you would have had the Daily Double, as it was the last clue remaining. Would the producers reedit from clue 29 onwards, or would they just bring you back to play again?
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[quote name=\'rollercoaster87\' post=\'236473\' date=\'Feb 25 2010, 02:39 PM\']Under this scenario, you would have had the Daily Double, as it was the last clue remaining. Would the producers reedit from clue 29 onwards, or would they just bring you back to play again?[/quote]
Almost certainly, they would bring you back, not play over. I don't know that they've ever gone back and replayed from a critical juncture, ignoring everything that happened after.
On Sony's Jeopardy board, we've debated the fairness of the one-and-only recourse being to bring a player back. There are lots of issues. On more than one occasion, they've had a problem with a FJ clue that would have resulted in a different winner, but as far as anybody's been able to tell, even in that situation the disadvantaged player doesn't get the winnings theoretically owed him, he just gets to play again. A "do-over" really appears to be the only option open to a wronged player.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'236474\' date=\'Feb 25 2010, 03:37 PM\']On more than one occasion, they've had a problem with a FJ clue that would have resulted in a different winner, but as far as anybody's been able to tell, even in that situation the disadvantaged player doesn't get the winnings theoretically owed him, he just gets to play again.[/quote]
Did they receive the winnings for finishing in 2nd or 3rd that day?
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The call-back/do-over is the only remedy that could be employed with any kind of consistency. Any other remedy, such as backing up and reshooting anything other than a simple pickup could never be fairly implemented. Sometimes the fix will bring another disadvantage, like in this example, if a Daily Double was replaced with a new one for the "right" contestant to answer, there is no telling if the same contestant would have answered the original question correctly.
Also, it is hard to say that (even though it is righting an wrong) the portions edited did not affect the competition, which is the standard disclaimer for all game shows.
The do-over may still not be fair, but it is the best option available. (And it puts more control of their destiny in the contestant's hands, rather than by arbitrary decision.) And it is most certainly contained in the contestant release forms, that "at the producer's discretion .... yadda, yadda, yadda."
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[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'236475\' date=\'Feb 25 2010, 04:21 PM\']Did they receive the winnings for finishing in 2nd or 3rd that day?[/quote]
To the best of my knowledge, yes. More specifically, I don't see why they wouldn't. They get what they get for the game that they played, and if they're lucky and the powers-that-be rule in their favor, they get to play again.
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I would imagine that such a scenario as outlined above would be an extreme rarity. Normally when a question arises on a contestant's response, that normally gets resolved before a Daily Double is played. Once the Daily Double is revealed, they stop tape, research the response in question and remedy the situation before play continues.
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Don't they stop tape BEFORE the DD gets played if there's a dispute about an answer?
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[quote name=\'Speedy G\' post=\'236496\' date=\'Feb 25 2010, 11:49 PM\']Don't they stop tape BEFORE the DD gets played if there's a dispute about an answer?[/quote]
Yes they do, because a change of scores affects DD wagering.
So OK, fine, I imagine you could make a case that in this most unlikely of circumstances, if they caught themselves in those scant few seconds between making a bad call and revealing the DD clue, they might be able to stop, reverse their ruling, and because the DD clue had not yet been revealed, AND because it was the last clue of the round, they could go back, recreate the moment (correctly this time) and have the correct player call for the DD clue.
Once the DD had been played, though, then that ship has sailed, and the only option for the player is the do-over.
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ISTR a problem going the other way. Player A gave a response that they didn't accept. Late in the game, Player B had a large lead and won on a sizable DD wager, large enough to give him a lock game. However, coming back from the FJ commercial, Alex explained that A's previous response was correct, and he's been credited with it. Player B no longer has a lock lead.
I'm positive the above happened. I'm less than certain that it actually cost Player B the game.
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This whole issue could be solved by giving each player a red bean bag.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'236500\' date=\'Feb 26 2010, 12:33 AM\']This whole issue could be solved by giving each player a red bean bag.[/quote]
Wait, a bag full of red beans, or a red bag full of beans?
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The latter. (http://\"http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/images/photos/000/774/624/RackMultipart.19757.0_feature.jpg\")
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See, I thought they were gonna play a game of Cornhole. ;-)
/Cornholed your mother last night (http://\"http://www.english.illinois.edu/-people-/faculty/debaron/wolimages/connery.jpg\")
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'236513\' date=\'Feb 26 2010, 08:27 AM\']See, I thought they were gonna play a game of Cornhole. ;-)
/Cornholed your mother last night (http://\"http://www.english.illinois.edu/-people-/faculty/debaron/wolimages/connery.jpg\")[/quote]
At first I was like:
http://yfrog.com/cssean20conneryga6j (http://\"http://yfrog.com/cssean20conneryga6j\")
...but then...
http://yfrog.com/d8celebrityjeopardyjapanuac3p (http://\"http://yfrog.com/d8celebrityjeopardyjapanuac3p\")
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[quote name=\'dale_grass\' post=\'236511\' date=\'Feb 26 2010, 07:31 AM\'][quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'236500\' date=\'Feb 26 2010, 12:33 AM\']This whole issue could be solved by giving each player a red bean bag.[/quote]
Wait, a bag full of red beans, or a red bag full of beans?[/quote]Ooh, sorry, the Clue Train has already left.
Was the football metaphor that byzantine?
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'236533\' date=\'Feb 26 2010, 04:22 PM\']Was the football metaphor that byzantine?[/quote]
Apparently just byzantine enough. I missed it, too.
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[quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' post=\'236534\' date=\'Feb 26 2010, 01:25 PM\']Apparently just byzantine enough. I missed it, too.[/quote]In the future, I shall use the broadest humor so that everyone can understand the point.
(see, like that.)
Each person gets a challenge flag, or has a switch on their desk that functions as same. If you want to challenge something, you do (thing whatever) and at the next play stoppage, it is Dealt With. If you were correct, you get that power back. If not, well, you get to pound sand next time and hope someone else falls on the sword. Plus maybe some monetary thing to go along with. I didn't exactly draw it out on the back of an envelope or anything.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'236535\' date=\'Feb 26 2010, 04:30 PM\']Each person gets a challenge flag, or has a switch on their desk that functions as same. If you want to challenge something, you do (thing whatever) and at the next play stoppage, it is Dealt With. If you were correct, you get that power back. If not, well, you get to pound sand next time and hope someone else falls on the sword. Plus maybe some monetary thing to go along with. I didn't exactly draw it out on the back of an envelope or anything.[/quote]
Since you sound at least somewhat serious, let me say that the way it's addressed on the show is that if you feel you need to challenge something, you can only do that during commercial breaks, or any other time that the producers have stopped play. (Of course, chances are that if the producers have stopped play, it's probably to look up the very thing you were wondering about anyway.) Daily Doubles don't count. They've got a TV show to make, and they're making five of 'em that day. They can't be stopping every time some would-be know-it-all thinks his memory is better than their research, or just wants to sandbag to ruin somebody else's rhythm.
/I also didn't get "red bean bag"
//"Red flag" I might have got
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'236536\' date=\'Feb 26 2010, 02:07 PM\']Since you sound at least somewhat serious,[/quote]I do treat threads like this with a measure of earnestness. The hypothetical question was how to treat a situation where you can't really retroactively undo a goof after-the-fact. I put out what I would do, and didn't really take into account anything other than that. Sure, there's a schedule to compete. And someone could be a total schmedrick and abuse the system, but I like the NFL/Pro Tennis way of handling challenges, so that's what I went with. Anyway, I'm at least a thousand miles removed from the studio and light-years away from being in a position to say "You should do things my way!" (And even that says that my way is better than what Jeopardy does now, which I don't believe.) But I played along with the hypothetical.
After all, Jeopardy! isn't a totalitarian regime, and it isn't ponies and ice cream. It is a fun quiz show run by humans who goof. Why don't we say "Wow, that episode was 100% error-free! Way to go, team!" because the group that puts on the show deserves it.