The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: byrd62 on April 12, 2010, 09:30:32 AM
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I wouldn't be surprised if this subject's been discussed before, but while no one, to my best knowledge, has ever done an economic study on the profit margins of TV game shows, if such a show takes in much more money it takes to produce it [in other words, has a high profit margin], shouldn't some of the profits go toward paying taxes on the contestants' winnings, thus rendering them tax-free?
Otherwise, what you have is a situation where the poor guy who wins that new car on TPiR gets socked with two huge tax bills--one from the Federal government, the other from the State of California--that he might not be able to pay unless he sells the car, or otherwise turns down that car he just won, while CBS and FremantleMedia make money off this guy's misfortune.
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While I think any game show contestant would be on board with having all of their winnings be tax-free, it doesn't bother me too much that they aren't. Here's why:
1. Even if you're taxed on your prizes, you can think of it as you purchase them for a deep discount (unless you win a luxury car, most people will probably remain in the 28% tax bracket).
2. If you win anything in a casino, lottery, etc., you're taxed on that. You can think of it as you did some extra work for some extra income.
3. If you had no use for a spa beforehand, why would having it be tax-free make it any different?
Trust me; I would've loved to receive all my Wheel winnings tax-free. That being said, however, I never blinked at the thought of having to pay taxes. The experience is what I was after, and I still had plenty of money leftover to put away and save for a car.
Anthony
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[quote name=\'beatlefreak84\' post=\'239292\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 10:27 AM\']3. If you had no use for a spa beforehand, why would having it be tax-free make it any different?[/quote]I'll have much more use for a $7,000 spa when it's $0 than when it's $7,000. :)
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[quote name=\'byrd62\' post=\'239291\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 06:30 AM\']if such a show takes in much more money it takes to produce it [in other words, has a high profit margin], shouldn't some of the profits go toward paying taxes on the contestants' winnings, thus rendering them tax-free?[/quote]
Only if you are prepared to make the casinos and lotteries (who, trust me, have WAY bigger profit-margins) do the same thing.
Are you?
It's income. Income is taxed in this country. If you have a problem with that, there are other countries you could move to.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'239301\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 11:16 AM\'][quote name=\'byrd62\' post=\'239291\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 06:30 AM\']if such a show takes in much more money it takes to produce it [in other words, has a high profit margin], shouldn't some of the profits go toward paying taxes on the contestants' winnings, thus rendering them tax-free?[/quote]
Only if you are prepared to make the casinos and lotteries (who, trust me, have WAY bigger profit-margins) do the same thing.
Are you?
It's income. Income is taxed in this country. If you have a problem with that, there are other countries you could move to.
[/quote]
I have no problem with money being taxed, it's liquid income so there's no way to say it shouldn't be taxed. What I do have a problem with is taxing prizes. Why is a trip to Las Vegas considered income? Where can I spend it? I can't use a hot tub to pay off a bill or buy a car or house. I can't exchange it or spend it, I can only consume it. If someone were to sell that prize (if they can unlike a trip) I think they should be taxed for what they sell it for, but I think if they keep the prize as is, it should be tax exempt. I'm sure there's countless times someone won a trip or expensive prize, but couldn't keep it because they couldn't afford the tax liability.
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[quote name=\'ten96lt\' post=\'239302\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 10:33 AM\']I can't use a hot tub to pay off a bill or buy a car or house.[/quote]
Y'ever heard of Craigslist? Sure you can.
And that's why it should be taxed.
I see your argument for "tax it if they sell it." Problem is, there is no way for the gub'ment to track that transaction. So, you get taxed off the top. Deal with it.
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[quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'239296\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 12:10 PM\'][quote name=\'beatlefreak84\' post=\'239292\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 10:27 AM\']3. If you had no use for a spa beforehand, why would having it be tax-free make it any different?[/quote]I'll have much more use for a $7,000 spa when it's $0 than when it's $7,000. :)[/quote]
*ding*
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'239301\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 01:16 PM\']It's income. Income is taxed in this country.[/quote]
*ding*
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'239303\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 01:41 PM\'][quote name=\'ten96lt\' post=\'239302\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 10:33 AM\']I can't use a hot tub to pay off a bill or buy a car or house.[/quote]
Y'ever heard of Craigslist? Sure you can.[/quote]
*ding ding ding*
I remember a couple of years ago an interview with a guy who won 2 cars on Price. IIRC, he sold one to pay the taxes on the other.
One thing too many people fail to realize is that the government runs on taxes, so any cuts to taxes deprives the government of funding for stuff both good (unemployment) and bad (pork). This is not to say that all taxes are good (looking at you, Dan Onorato), but all taxes are not bad.
Of course, if you disagree with me, there are several political "parties" that you join that share in your beliefs. This country is still free, as far as I know.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'239303\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 11:41 AM\'][quote name=\'ten96lt\' post=\'239302\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 10:33 AM\']I can't use a hot tub to pay off a bill or buy a car or house.[/quote]
Y'ever heard of Craigslist? Sure you can.
And that's why it should be taxed.
I see your argument for "tax it if they sell it." Problem is, there is no way for the gub'ment to track that transaction. So, you get taxed off the top. Deal with it.
[/quote]
I understand that about Craigslist (which is why I mentioned "tax it if they sell it" ;)), but it's easier to sell a car than it is to sell a hot tub on there and it's harder to avoid taxes on a car since there's the issue of transferring the title and you know the DMV is going to want the sales tax at least so you know somebody knows about the sale and should be reported to the IRS. eBay makes it easy to sell also, but you can't tell me the IRS can't get on eBay's ass and tell them to start reporting sales. Trips can't even be transfered on most game shows so what would you do with that? I don't have a problem with taxes on game show winnings in general. But I think either A. If the show is going to offer a prize that could put a tax burden on the contestant, they should include the taxes as part of the prize. Didn't the Monty Hall Version of LMAD include taxes in the cars they gave away when the announcer made the description of the car in the big deal?
or B. Just make trips and certain prizes tax exempt.
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[quote name=\'ten96lt\' post=\'239307\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 11:18 AM\']but you can't tell me the IRS can't get on eBay's ass and tell them to start reporting sales.[/quote]
Sure they can. Now explain to me the difference between that and me going to my next-door neighbor and saying "hey, wanna buy a gazebo?"
Trips can't even be transfered on most game shows so what would you do with that?
Turn it down.
But I think either A. If the show is going to offer a prize that could put a tax burden on the contestant, they should include the taxes as part of the prize.
Have you met my friend Mr. Lesko?
Didn't the Monty Hall Version of LMAD include taxes in the cars they gave away when the announcer made the description of the car in the big deal?
Good question. I think the taxes included covered sales tax, but there's no way it could cover income tax because the production had no way of knowing what tax bracket the winner was in.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'239308\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 01:33 PM\'][quote name=\'ten96lt\' post=\'239307\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 11:18 AM\']but you can't tell me the IRS can't get on eBay's ass and tell them to start reporting sales.[/quote]
Sure they can. Now explain to me the difference between that and me going to my next-door neighbor and saying "hey, wanna buy a gazebo?"
Trips can't even be transfered on most game shows so what would you do with that?
Turn it down.[/quote]
I think that's the heart of the argument though: if you won something, you shouldn't be forced to give it up just because some external force - however ubiquitous it may be - is tacking on a surcharge to it. Might as well not win your way on stage and get the Cutco knives and Lobstergram instead.
(Come to think of it, I wonder if TPIR contestants can do that - trade in one of their bigger prizes for the CNAOSWR stuff if they don't get it already.)
The question is whether or not it's the responsibility of the production company to cover those costs, and it clearly isn't. The government may consider passing a law rendering contest winnings non-taxable (I remember Stosh making a crusade of it years back), but game show winners isn't exactly an underprivileged group that either party can pander to.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'239308\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 12:33 PM\'][quote name=\'ten96lt\' post=\'239307\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 11:18 AM\']but you can't tell me the IRS can't get on eBay's ass and tell them to start reporting sales.[/quote]
Sure they can. Now explain to me the difference between that and me going to my next-door neighbor and saying "hey, wanna buy a gazebo?"
Trips can't even be transfered on most game shows so what would you do with that?
Turn it down.
But I think either A. If the show is going to offer a prize that could put a tax burden on the contestant, they should include the taxes as part of the prize.
Have you met my friend Mr. Lesko?
Didn't the Monty Hall Version of LMAD include taxes in the cars they gave away when the announcer made the description of the car in the big deal?
Good question. I think the taxes included covered sales tax, but there's no way it could cover income tax because the production had no way of knowing what tax bracket the winner was in.
[/quote]
What are the odds of your next door neighbor wanting a gazebo or grandfather clock or cotton candy machine at the time you win one? Probably a lot less than someone looking specifically in that category on eBay you listed it in. How much tax revenue would they be losing because of the number of game show contestants selling a a $2000 grandfather clock they won? It just means congress will have to cut another pet project and piece of pork out. Oh my heart bleeds! And as mentioned above. I thought part of the fun of getting on these shows was to win "fabulous prizes." So what's the point of going on a show to win, then turn it down because of the taxes? I don't see it being hard for shows to figure out how much tax money to cover a prize if you assume 28% like with gambling winnings. That should be more then enough to cover.
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[quote name=\'Loogaroo\' post=\'239310\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 12:09 PM\']I think that's the heart of the argument though: if you won something, you shouldn't be forced to give it up just because some external force - however ubiquitous it may be - is tacking on a surcharge to it.[/quote]
Nobody's "forced" to do anything. That's just how it works, until, as you said, the gub'ment passes a law to do otherwise. Which I really don't have a problem with so long as the tax can be made up elsewhere.
Might as well not win your way on stage and get the Cutco knives and Lobstergram instead.
Which, technically, you're also supposed to declare, are you not? Just 'cuz the sum total is less than $500 and the production doesn't have to file on it does not *technically* absolve you of the responsibility to declare and pay your tax on it. (Kinda like out-of-state sales-tax for online purchases.)
The question is whether or not it's the responsibility of the production company to cover those costs, and it clearly isn't.
Exactly. More to the point, people who have a problem with this and think the production is being cheap and should pick up the tab are free not to apply to appear on a game show. And since there is no shortage of people willing to do that and even more ready to step in if some people DID make a big deal out of it, I don't see a reason why a production company should acquiesce.
(I remember Stosh making a crusade of it years back)
I'm shocked. Shocked, I say. :)
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[quote name=\'ten96lt\' post=\'239313\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 01:11 PM\']What are the odds of your next door neighbor wanting a gazebo or grandfather clock or cotton candy machine at the time you win one? Probably a lot less than someone looking specifically in that category on eBay you listed it in.[/quote]
You are completely missing my point. You said "hey, Ebay's big enough that the gub'ment should be able to track sales made through that." And that's probably true. And I'm saying that someone selling something to someone else over Ebay is EXACTLY the same as me selling something to my next-door neighbor. Person A gives something to Person B, Person B, gives money to Person A. Yet, there's no way for the government to track that sale. Which means that your brilliant idea of "well, don't tax it until it gets turned into cash!" doesn't hold water.
How much tax revenue would they be losing because of the number of game show contestants selling a a $2000 grandfather clock they won? It just means congress will have to cut another pet project and piece of pork out. Oh my heart bleeds!
I don't disagree, but this is an entirely different argument.
I thought part of the fun of getting on these shows was to win "fabulous prizes." So what's the point of going on a show to win, then turn it down because of the taxes?
Then...don't go on the show.
I don't see it being hard for shows to figure out how much tax money to cover a prize if you assume 28% like with gambling winnings.
I don't see it being hard to do that either.
I further have not heard you tell me one single reason why they *should* do that other than "it's the morally right thing to do."
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'239315\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 02:22 PM\'][quote name=\'ten96lt\' post=\'239313\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 01:11 PM\']What are the odds of your next door neighbor wanting a gazebo or grandfather clock or cotton candy machine at the time you win one? Probably a lot less than someone looking specifically in that category on eBay you listed it in.[/quote]
You are completely missing my point. You said "hey, Ebay's big enough that the gub'ment should be able to track sales made through that." And that's probably true. And I'm saying that someone selling something to someone else over Ebay is EXACTLY the same as me selling something to my next-door neighbor. Person A gives something to Person B, Person B, gives money to Person A. Yet, there's no way for the government to track that sale. Which means that your brilliant idea of "well, don't tax it until it gets turned into cash!" doesn't hold water.
How much tax revenue would they be losing because of the number of game show contestants selling a a $2000 grandfather clock they won? It just means congress will have to cut another pet project and piece of pork out. Oh my heart bleeds!
I don't disagree, but this is an entirely different argument.
I thought part of the fun of getting on these shows was to win "fabulous prizes." So what's the point of going on a show to win, then turn it down because of the taxes?
Then...don't go on the show.
I don't see it being hard for shows to figure out how much tax money to cover a prize if you assume 28% like with gambling winnings.
I don't see it being hard to do that either.
I further have not heard you tell me one single reason why they *should* do that other than "it's the morally right thing to do."
[/quote]
It is exactly the same, but my point is, the odds of those sales going through without a formal channel are small since some of those prizes are in such a niche market it would make the revenue negligible to the argument. You're also assuming all people who sell won't report the income from the sale. The IRS uses the honor system all the time for people making deductions and even sending in a tax return. If these people aren't declaring they made $9000 from selling a hot tub they won, then that probably isn't the only thing they're being dishonest about on their taxes and will get caught. Cars and big ticket items will be hard to hide from. The trips should absolutely tax exempt since they can't be sold and must be used. I don't enter contests that have trips as prizes solely for that reason and I'm sure many people don't go on certain shows for that reason.
Now, why should shows add the tax? Because it would add some truth in advertising for shows claiming to win a "free" trip to such and such or a free something for a year. Well technically it isn't free since they are under tax liability and unless they wanna cover the tax, well maybe they should stop throwing the word free around a lot less and be more scrutinized with how they advertise prizes.
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What I don't get is this: Why should the status quo be kept when the rest of the western world (Canada, UK, Eurozone) tax income but don't tax game show winnings. Someone please tell me why what's good for the rest of the western world isn't good for the US?
First sane explanation gets a cookie.
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What I don't get is this: Why should the status quo be kept when the rest of the western world (Canada, UK, Eurozone) tax income but don't tax game show winnings. Someone please tell me why what's good for the rest of the western world isn't good for the US?
I think it's partly because taxes are generally much higher in Canada and the UK than they are in the US. Also, the amount you could win on a game show pales in comparison ... well ... until WWTBAM came along, I guess.
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What are the odds of your next door neighbor wanting a gazebo or grandfather clock or cotton candy machine at the time you win one?
I'm probably like a lot of people...if I was fortunate enough to win a lot of prizes on The Price is Right, when I'm signing the forms at the end of the show, I'd forfeit anything I didn't want or thought would be too much trouble. If I won a $7000 hot tub (for example), I really have no interest in it. I'd hate to give up something I won, but it's better than taking it, paying $1800 in taxes (or whatever it would be), and then not having a place to put it when it's delivered.
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[quote name=\'ten96lt\' post=\'239316\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 01:48 PM\']It is exactly the same, but my point is, the odds of those sales going through without a formal channel are small since some of those prizes are in such a niche market it would make the revenue negligible to the argument.[/quote]
You're still missing the point, and really I'm not interested in making it again since I'm reasonably sure at this point that you're not gonna get it.
You're also assuming all people who sell won't report the income from the sale.
Yes, I am.
The IRS uses the honor system all the time for people making deductions and even sending in a tax return. If these people aren't declaring they made $9000 from selling a hot tub they won, then that probably isn't the only thing they're being dishonest about on their taxes and will get caught.
That is a completely ludicrous premise.
well maybe they should stop throwing the word free around a lot less
Double-negative aside, show me where that word is used in the first place. I don't believe I've ever heard Rich Fields invite someone to win a "free trip" or a "free car".
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[quote name=\'Scrabbleship\' post=\'239317\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 04:03 PM\']What I don't get is this: Why should the status quo be kept when the rest of the western world (Canada, UK, Eurozone) tax income but don't tax game show winnings. Someone please tell me why what's good for the rest of the western world isn't good for the US?[/quote]Canada and the UK don't believe in capital punishment either. I think its a fit punishment for many crimes, not just murder. [quote name=\'CLemon\']Double-negative aside, show me where that word is used in the first place. I don't believe I've ever heard Rich Fields invite someone to win a "free trip" or a "free car".[/quote]He doesn't, no. But that's not the image game shows convey.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'239314\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 03:15 PM\'][quote name=\'Loogaroo\' post=\'239310\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 12:09 PM\']Might as well not win your way on stage and get the Cutco knives and Lobstergram instead.[/quote]
Which, technically, you're also supposed to declare, are you not? Just 'cuz the sum total is less than $500 and the production doesn't have to file on it does not *technically* absolve you of the responsibility to declare and pay your tax on it. (Kinda like out-of-state sales-tax for online purchases.[/quote]
Actually, no you don't. I won $5xx as a questioner on Trivial Pursuit a couple years ago, which is under the $600 cutoff for receiving a 1099-MISC at the end of the year. I was told that They Officially Don't Care.
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[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'239323\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 03:05 PM\']He doesn't, no. But that's not the image game shows convey.[/quote]
That's not my point. I have never EVER seen a game show use that word, and the OP was railing that "well, maybe they shouldn't say that, then!" They don't say that. Very likely for that precise reason.
[quote name=\'Loogaroo\' post=\'239324\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 03:21 PM\']I was told that They Officially Don't Care.[/quote]
1) who's "they", and 2) by who?
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I'm only signing off on a hot tub if it takes me back to 1986. :-P
There's some prizes I can see myself accepting because I could most likely resell them, a car being one of them. I've mentioned this before, but if I win a $90,000 Viper or $50,000 Corvette on Golden Road, I'll gladly sign and resell for a lower price (say $75,000 for the Viper). Even when I take out the taxes, I'm still coming out ahead by about $50K, which is still better than what most shows offer, and the taxes are gone!
I'm not so sure I'd have that same luck on a hot tub or another dinette set. At least I do have a place to store the car...
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'239325\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 04:27 PM\'][quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'239323\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 03:05 PM\']He doesn't, no. But that's not the image game shows convey.[/quote]
That's not my point. I have never EVER seen a game show use that word, and the OP was railing that "well, maybe they shouldn't say that, then!" They don't say that. Very likely for that precise reason.
[quote name=\'Loogaroo\' post=\'239324\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 03:21 PM\']I was told that They Officially Don't Care.[/quote]
1) who's "they", and 2) by who?
[/quote]
I've heard "free "X" for a year" said before. So you're saying to "win" something on a game show isn't meant to convey the image of getting something free or at least to not pay anything to get something? Why can't they disclose to the audience during the credits that "contestants are responsible for tax liabilities" next to the disclaimer that "contestants must meet eligibility requirements....." and have some more disclosure and honesty? Contests are starting to pay the taxes for certain prizes. I entered a contest on MSNBC to win a Maserati and in the rules they said they'd give $70,000 to the winner to cover taxes. The lottery where I live is offering a contest to pay for a couple's wedding and in the rules will pay the 28% withholding for the value of the prize. Why can't game shows evolve with these contests and help contestants out with prizes? What's with the determination to stay with the status quo?
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'239325\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 05:27 PM\'][quote name=\'Loogaroo\' post=\'239324\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 03:21 PM\']I was told that They Officially Don't Care.[/quote]
1) who's "they", and 2) by who?[/quote]
The IRS, and Mr. Ottinger in this thread. (http://\"http://gameshow.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17381&st=14&p=207501&#entry207501\")
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I will reply again later on to cover some of the other points, but...
[quote name=\'ten96lt\' post=\'239339\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 05:24 PM\']Why can't game shows evolve with these contests and help contestants out with prizes?[/quote] They can. They choose not to, or in some select cases, do. (Millionaire's Tax Free Mega Jackpot Week, for one)
What's with the determination to stay with the status quo?
Step One: Underpants
Step Two:
Step Three: ------
(anyone? Bueller? Bueller?)
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'239348\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 06:43 PM\']Step One: Underpants
Step Two:
Step Three: ------
(anyone? Bueller? Bueller?)[/quote]
Profit!
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[quote name=\'Scrabbleship\' post=\'239317\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 02:03 PM\']Someone please tell me why what's good for the rest of the western world isn't good for the US?[/quote]
Please refer to The Debate Over Health Care Reform.
First sane explanation gets a cookie.
Also refer to The Debate Over Health Care Reform to understand why your cookies are going to go stale.
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[quote name=\'trainman\' post=\'239357\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 10:56 PM\'][quote name=\'Scrabbleship\' post=\'239317\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 02:03 PM\']Someone please tell me why what's good for the rest of the western world isn't good for the US?[/quote]
Please refer to The Debate Over Health Care Reform.
First sane explanation gets a cookie.
Also refer to The Debate Over Health Care Reform to understand why your cookies are going to go stale.
[/quote]
This is why my goal is to see America evolve into Canada South. America is too backwards for its own good. I'll shut up now.
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Politics = Bad
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[quote name=\'Scrabbleship\' post=\'239359\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 08:03 PM\']This is why my goal is to see America evolve into Canada South. America is too backwards for its own good. I'll shut up now.[/quote]I spent some quality time in Canada. Yet again, you fail. You lose five dollars from your score and you're out of the next question.
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[quote name=\'Scrabbleship\' post=\'239359\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 10:03 PM\']I'll shut up now.[/quote]
Please do.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'239301\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 10:16 AM\']It's income. Income is taxed in this country. If you have a problem with that, there are other countries you could move to.[/quote]Or we could go to a consumption tax. You're taxed on what you buy (above a subsistence level of food purchases which would be rebated to all participants) and not on what you earn. Personally, I would rather be taxed on what I can control, rather than be taxed on my earnings, when squelches innovation, investment and entrepreneurship.
What we have is a labyrinthine tax code that is nearly incomprehensible, and different kinds of income are taxed at different levels (to wit, capital gains on stock sales are taxed differently than is regular money.)
[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'239304\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 11:10 AM\']One thing too many people fail to realize is that the government runs on taxes, so any cuts to taxes deprives the government of funding for stuff both good (unemployment) and bad (pork). This is not to say that all taxes are good (looking at you, Dan Onorato), but all taxes are not bad.
Of course, if you disagree with me, there are several political "parties" that you join that share in your beliefs. This country is still free, as far as I know.[/quote]Whenever I would blog about political waste, I would invariably get a couple of thicko morons who would say "But you have to have taxes to run things! If you don't have taxes, you have anarchy!" which is not what I want. I would be much happier to pay taxes if I knew that our government was lean, mean and streamlined. It is not. My idea of government necessity is different from probably everyone here, so I'll leave it with that. If you want to know more about the FairTax or what I think could be cut from the FedBudget, drop me a line.
[quote name=\'Loogaroo\' post=\'239310\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 12:09 PM\']The government may consider passing a law rendering contest winnings non-taxable (I remember Stosh making a crusade of it years back), but game show winners isn't exactly an underprivileged group that either party can pander to.[/quote]Professor Malfeasance also "crusaded" for the surnames of contestants being told on-air, going so far as to come up with bogus "fake surnames" as he saw fit, and to have "Big Brother" moved back to 10p on the nights it aired.
So far, he's oh-fer-life on that account.
The government is not going to say "Hm, we'll take a pass on moar income!" unless it benefits them somehow. I don't think The Buzzer-Whanger Party is big enough to get a seat at the table.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'239366\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 08:58 PM\']Personally, I would rather be taxed on what I can control, rather than be taxed on my earnings, when squelches innovation, investment and entrepreneurship.[/quote]
I would buy this if you could present me with examples of someone turning down a raise or other opportunity to make money for fear of landing in a higher tax bracket.
I would invariably get a couple of thicko morons
You misspelled "pinko." ;)
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'239386\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 11:25 PM\'][quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'239366\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 08:58 PM\']Personally, I would rather be taxed on what I can control, rather than be taxed on my earnings, when squelches innovation, investment and entrepreneurship.[/quote]I would buy this if you could present me with examples of someone turning down a raise or other opportunity to make money for fear of landing in a higher tax bracket.[/quote]Any time a business (or person/family unit) crosses state lines to buy/do business. Like the people in Vancouver who buy stuff in Portland because there's no sales tax and then come back home. Or the shitton of people who are going to make Res runs when the cigarette tax is passed later this year. Or the Governor of Idaho who says "Baw, you don't want to stay in your own business squelching climate! Come open your store here!"
Voting with your money isn't just a cliche, it happens. No, that doesn't fit into your prefab idea of turning down money because the marginal increase wouldn't be worth the work. If you're not keen on the FairTax for whatever reason that's fine, but my point and your counter-thing aren't linked.
Obligatory Actual Game Show-ish Content: Alex Trebek hosted a special a while back on the CBC: Canada's Next Great Prime Minister. It was neat, and topics like this were discussed at length.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'239388\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 11:43 PM\']No, that doesn't fit into your prefab idea of turning down money because the marginal increase wouldn't be worth the work. If you're not keen on the FairTax for whatever reason that's fine, but my point and your counter-thing aren't linked.[/quote]
Except that's exactly what you said ("rather than be taxed on my earnings"), but I know that attempting to have this argument will accomplish precisely nothing, so instead I shall doff my cap and wish you a respectful good evening.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'239390\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 11:52 PM\'][quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'239388\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 11:43 PM\']No, that doesn't fit into your prefab idea of turning down money because the marginal increase wouldn't be worth the work. If you're not keen on the FairTax for whatever reason that's fine, but my point and your counter-thing aren't linked.[/quote]Except that's exactly what you said ("rather than be taxed on my earnings"), but I know that attempting to have this argument will accomplish precisely nothing, so instead I shall doff my cap and wish you a respectful good evening.
[/quote]I'm terribly sorry you misunderstood my comment. I would prefer to be taxed on what I spend than what I earn, given the rate for each. I would also rather be taxed at 5% than 25%, given the choice.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'239392\' date=\'Apr 13 2010, 02:55 AM\']I would prefer to be taxed on what I spend than what I earn, given the rate for each. I would also rather be taxed at 5% than 25%, given the choice.[/quote]
That's fine, and maybe even a good idea, but the initial logic behind it was off. Assuming you are not your own boss, you can control your salary/wage about as well as you can control the price of goods.
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Whenever this recurring topic returns I never see mention of the fact that there was once an IRS provision that helped us game show winners - - - Schedule G which provided for Income Averaging. A particularly good year could be averaged over a 5 year period to mitigate the massive hit tax hit. I'm not sure when it disappeared, but I used Schedule G in the mid 1980s.
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' post=\'239422\' date=\'Apr 13 2010, 09:59 AM\']Whenever this recurring topic returns I never see mention of the fact that there was once an IRS provision that helped us game show winners - - - Schedule G which provided for Income Averaging. A particularly good year could be averaged over a 5 year period to mitigate the massive hit tax hit. I'm not sure when it disappeared, but I used Schedule G in the mid 1980s.[/quote]
It hasn't really disappeared. It's now known as Form 990, which applies to fundraising and gaming (bingo, pull-tab games, and the like), though not game shows anymore.
--Charlie
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[quote name=\'GiraffeBoy\' post=\'239754\' date=\'Apr 20 2010, 12:59 AM\']It hasn't really disappeared. It's now known as Form 990, which applies to fundraising and gaming (bingo, pull-tab games, and the like), though not game shows anymore.[/quote]
Erm, Form 990 (http://\"http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f990.pdf\") is "Return of Organization Exempt From Income Tax".
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[quote name=\'Steve McClellan\' post=\'239755\' date=\'Apr 20 2010, 12:11 AM\'][quote name=\'GiraffeBoy\' post=\'239754\' date=\'Apr 20 2010, 12:59 AM\']It hasn't really disappeared. It's now known as Form 990, which applies to fundraising and gaming (bingo, pull-tab games, and the like), though not game shows anymore.[/quote]
Erm, Form 990 (http://\"http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f990.pdf\") is "Return of Organization Exempt From Income Tax".
[/quote]
Sorry, I meant this Form 990 (http://\"http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/form990scheduleg.pdf\").
--Charlie
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I used Schedule G in the mid 1980s.
Maybe it went out with tax reform '86 when they took away the credit card interest deduction?
The fundamental flaw in this thread is that the title asks whether prizes should be tax free, but the O.P. asks whether producers should shoulder the tax burden, meaning the winnings would ostensibly still be taxable but the tax paid by someone else. Trust me, producers aren't going to shoulder any more of the costs of prizes than they have to, let alone the contestants' taxes.
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[quote name=\'GiraffeBoy\' post=\'239781\' date=\'Apr 20 2010, 08:39 PM\']Sorry, I meant this Form 990 (http://\"http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/form990scheduleg.pdf\").[/quote]
Nope, strike two. Smith family get ready to steal.
That Sched G goes back to the nonprofit tax return, and it's intended to show proceeds from running games of chance (not participating in).
Game show winnings are just reported like any miscellaneous income, just as if you did freelance or contract work. Just as Rob did when he was on Lingo. (http://\"http://www.uberzine.com/uberzine/lingo/partfour.html\")
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The correct IRS Schedule G - Income Averaging was indeed eliminated as part of the 1986 Tax Reform Act.
Randy
tvrandywest.com