The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: joshg on November 24, 2003, 12:15:13 PM
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I've been cataloging some of my tapes lately and I ran across some episodes of Classic Concentration, and I've had some trouble trying to keep track of all the format tweaks and changes they performed on the show in it's short life. In no particular order:
one loss and you're gone
win 2 out of 3 games (the yellow **s on the podiums)
2 losses and you're gone (the red XXs on the podiums)
one bonus round per show
a bonus round after every puzzle
rebus puzzle answers shown before the game starts
the contestant explains the rebus
the sweater shows
those god-awful neon palm trees
Is this the only Goodson (or G-T) show that has ever had a massive amount of on-air tweaking? The only other G-T show that comes to mind in regards of tweaks and changes is Now You See It.
JOSH
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Is this the only Goodson (or G-T) show that has ever had a massive amount of on-air tweaking? The only other G-T show that comes to mind in regards of tweaks and changes is Now You See It.
"Now You See It" only had one major change - Christmas week 1974 when they totally revamped the format (speaking of that, has anyone got that first revamped episode on tape?)
They did have a minor change part way through with the "bonus answers" rule, where contestants could get 10 extra points if they got an answer right that they wrote down before the round started.
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[quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Nov 24 2003, 10:15 AM\'] Is this the only Goodson (or G-T) show that has ever had a massive amount of on-air tweaking? The only other G-T show that comes to mind in regards of tweaks and changes is Now You See It.
[/quote]
By these same arguments, "Password" and "The Price Is Right" have been pretty severely abused over time.
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By these same arguments, "Password" and "The Price Is Right" have been pretty severely abused over time.
"Password" has been abused both on-air (the *wonderful* 'Stars' format) and pre-air (Plus, Super). "Price", IMO, wasn't really abused, but added to by the very nature of the format: different and rotating pricing games. Yes, it was abused pre-air in '72, but if the 'one-bid' (or IUFB or whatever it's called) was to be taken out and the contestants just run up on stage, then that would be abuse...
wait, they did that already... never mind
JOSH
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There is a webpage which so lavishly details such formats: The Classic Concentration Site (http://\"http://www.geocities.com/classicconcentration/index.html\")
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[quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Nov 24 2003, 11:23 AM\'] but if the 'one-bid' (or IUFB or whatever it's called) was to be taken out and the contestants just run up on stage, then that would be abuse...
[/quote]
I only meant to use the term "abused" in the sense that it "deviated from the original format." Whether those changes were for the better or worse, just like the list of Concentration alterations, is for the individual to decide for themselves.
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[quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Nov 24 2003, 12:15 PM\']
those god-awful neon palm trees
JOSH [/quote]
I disagree with that view. I really liked those Palm Trees. It gave the show a cool California feel. I'm also a fan of neon. So needless to say, that's an addition that I was glad to see.
John
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[quote name=\'Skynet74\' date=\'Nov 24 2003, 07:10 PM\'] [quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Nov 24 2003, 12:15 PM\']
those god-awful neon palm trees
JOSH [/quote]
I disagree with that view. I really liked those Palm Trees. It gave the show a cool California feel. I'm also a fan of neon. So needless to say, that's an addition that I was glad to see.
John [/quote]
I liked them too.
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[quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Nov 24 2003, 12:15 PM\'] Is this the only Goodson (or G-T) show that has ever had a massive amount of on-air tweaking? The only other G-T show that comes to mind in regards of tweaks and changes is Now You See It.
JOSH [/quote]
I have to agree. "CC" did play the Format Limbo in it's Four years on the air. I think this is a pretty accurate cronology of the formats:
1987-1988: One loss you're gone. Two bonus rounds. If 2nd game has not finished before the "times-up" bell and you lose in the speedround, you get to comeback the next day regardess. Clock starts at 35 secs and increases 5 secs every unsuccesfull attempt, you can stay for as many as 5 victories and win up to 5 cars (The record is 3, I believe). No palm tree's anywhere. Alex explains the puzzles and the answers are not shown on the screen. Two pieces of the puzzle are reveled outright, if the 2nd round is short on time, then Four pieces are reveled
1988-1989: The best-two-out-of-three format. One bonus round. No pieces shown outright. You can be elimated in the Speedround. Answers show up on the screen. Contestants get to explain. The Palm Trees in the car podiums. Win a car, you retire. Alex's hair is gradualy losing it's fluff.
1989-1990: Same as before, except with the Palm Trees everywhere and the addition of the "Cash Pot" in the first round. Winners Circle now has "Grass" and folliage.
1990-1991: Double-elimatation format. Two bonus rounds. The clock increases based on the number of unsuccesfull times you've been to the "Winners Circle" (Which is now some sort of grassy bush thing). Cash Pot in the 2nd round as well as "5 Bonus Seconds"
There you have it. The first format, IMO, was too confusing and complicated and way to generous (Five cars ? Wow !). I though the best-two-out-of-three format was perfect, it actually gave the 2nd round more time and both players had a chance to win some stuff. The 3rd format was just bizarre with the clock only increasing on the numbers of times you've been to the "WC" (Obviously the work of the NBC Budget Department) and cheeper cars (Was the Subaru Justy the Official Car of "CC" in 1991 ?)
Oh, and I though the Palm Tree's were cool. Helped liven up the rather barren set.
-Joe R.
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Wow Joe what a tome! Thank you! While looking over your list, I can't help but think that either MGP was either too focused on bringing Concentration back and didn't iron out exactly how to play the game or NBC had something to do with the formatics and that's why it started like that. Also, I seem to remember that there were no "Take"s during the first few weeks of the show, correct?
On a related note, I see that the Palm Trees received the most votes in the FoF and will be shown on Thanksgiving Day... yes, the set was *huge* (8 cars take up a lot of room, you know...) and the home base was this tiny little thing in the middle of it all. Maybe if they started with the trees as opposed to adding them after a year or so, then maybe I'd be more forgiving. Anyway, I'm not losing any sleep over the issue.
(Was the Subaru Justy the Official Car of "CC" in 1991 ?)
What about the Daihatsu Charade? That popped up alot in the series run.
I also remember they couldn't spell 'Camaro' on occasion (Camero).
JOSH
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Thanks for your compliements. "Concentration" (Not just Trebek's version) is one of my all-time favorite shows.
I believe the TAKE! premiered in the first season. I'm not sure when they added the 2nd TAKE! and made them color coaded.
On the subject of the "Cash Pot". I'm curious, how high did the MASSIVE jackpot ever get ?
Speaking of the cars, I love the way Alex would speak in a Japanese accent whenever the Suzuki Samuari showed up !
-Joe R.
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[quote name=\'JRaygor\' date=\'Nov 24 2003, 07:26 PM\']
I believe the TAKE! premiered in the first season. I'm not sure when they added the 2nd TAKE! and made them color coaded.
On the subject of the "Cash Pot". I'm curious, how high did the MASSIVE jackpot ever get ?
[/quote]
There were a couple of months(?) with only one Take on the board.
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If we're talking about G-T shows with major format changes, Showoffs -- which changed its scoring method during the main game and changed the end game completely -- should be mentioned.
Does anybody know if the Classic Concentration changes had anything to do with NBC budget cuts?
If NBC really starts up five digital channels, they've got to find room for a revival on one of them.
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[quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Nov 24 2003, 04:43 PM\'] On a related note, I see that the Palm Trees received the most votes in the FoF and will be shown on Thanksgiving Day... [/quote]
Huh? GSN doesn't have rights to air any form of Concentration.
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[quote name=\'calliaume\' date=\'Nov 24 2003, 09:09 PM\'] If we're talking about G-T shows with major format changes, Showoffs -- which changed its scoring method during the main game and changed the end game completely -- should be mentioned.
[/quote]
Trivia Trap changed the maingame midway in the run, adding the Fact or Fiction round and altering the format of the "wrong answers" round to the mix.
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What about "Snap Judgment," the format of which was changed in its waning days to that of "Password."
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Nov 24 2003, 09:13 PM\']On a related note, I see that the Palm Trees received the most votes in the FoF and will be shown on Thanksgiving Day...
Huh? GSN doesn't have rights to air any form of Concentration.[/quote]
I know that... I thought it was funny when I typed it earlier...
looks like it wasn't
Mr. Dry Humor
JOSH
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[quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Nov 24 2003, 07:17 PM\'] [quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Nov 24 2003, 09:13 PM\']On a related note, I see that the Palm Trees received the most votes in the FoF and will be shown on Thanksgiving Day...
Huh? GSN doesn't have rights to air any form of Concentration.[/quote]
I know that... I thought it was funny when I typed it earlier...
looks like it wasn't
[/quote]
A very astute observation.
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The green take was in by the first Christmas episode (contestant named Joyce Joyce).
Palm trees were OK, but I preferred the snowflakes.
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I think CC has been tinkered the most, with Card Sharks being a close second.
CS had the MC rules modified several times during the 78-81 run. At first, you could only change your first card at the bottom level, later all 3 levels' base card can be turned, then (along with the excessive $500 bonuses) the push rule (which was carried to the Eubankseses' version).
If we fast forward to the Eubankseses' version, they still had the push rule. The cards could now be changed anywhere, at anytime (which is a good thing since if you had an 8, you can change it more than once). They later tinked that so it'd be one card per line. That was just as good too (compared to the Perry MC).
The MC was also modified because of the car game, which is good and bad. Good because its a $10K+ car, bad, because it already slows down the progress of the show.
Lets not get started with the Bullard Version, albeit a $51,800 jackpot possible ($27450 was the highest ever won on this version...why I know this? I had the gall to actually tape the episode)
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[quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Nov 24 2003, 12:15 PM\'] In no particular order:
one loss and you're gone
win 2 out of 3 games (the yellow **s on the podiums)
2 losses and you're gone (the red XXs on the podiums)
one bonus round per show
a bonus round after every puzzle
rebus puzzle answers shown before the game starts
the contestant explains the rebus
the sweater shows
those god-awful neon palm trees
[/quote]
You forgot to mention all the crazy TAKE colors they were throwing in there for a while. (Maybe because contestants kept taking the TAKEs home with them? -- ducking). I was kinda hoping Alex would pull out a Orange Polka-Dotted TAKE.
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You forgot to mention all the crazy TAKE colors they were throwing in there for a while. (Maybe because contestants kept taking the TAKEs home with them? -- ducking). I was kinda hoping Alex would pull out a Orange Polka-Dotted TAKE.
Really? I only remember Red and Green...
Then again, maybe I fell for a joke and I didn't realize it...
JOSH
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Subtle changes on CC: Diana Taylor to Marjorie Goodson; Alex switching to casual clothes; Alex sitting down in the main game then back to standing. I always wondered what the studio audience saw during the taping, did they watch the same monitor as the players?
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[quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Nov 24 2003, 01:23 PM\'] "Password" has been abused both on-air (the *wonderful* 'Stars' format) and pre-air (Plus, Super). [/quote]
PW All-Stars could be called an abuse, but I don't think I can agree with PW+ being an abuse. Allen Ludden actually seemed to like the challenge of the Password Puzzle aspect of the game. Now, the specifics of the format changed as it went thorugh a very tortured 3-year run. That *might* qualify as abuse, but I'll leave that to the eye of the beholder.
SuperPW was little more than a tweaking of PW+, and it stayed true to its format throughout its run.
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[quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Nov 25 2003, 10:38 PM\'] Then again, maybe I fell for a joke and I didn't realize it...
[/quote]
Well, that's because it wasn't that good.
Brandon Brooks
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[quote name=\'Brandon Brooks\' date=\'Nov 26 2003, 12:32 AM\'] [quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Nov 25 2003, 10:38 PM\'] Then again, maybe I fell for a joke and I didn't realize it...
[/quote]
Well, that's because it wasn't that good.
Brandon Brooks [/quote]
The jokes in this thread are a puzzle. Can you solve it?
RAN + DUMB = Random
&
SIR + EEL = Surreal
Random and surreal!
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I always wondered what the studio audience saw during the taping, did they watch the same monitor as the players?
The contestants looked at the puzzle on a big screen directly in front of them. The audience had to watch the monitors above the bleachers.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Nov 24 2003, 12:30 PM\']
Is this the only Goodson (or G-T) show that has ever had a massive amount of on-air tweaking? The only other G-T show that comes to mind in regards of tweaks and changes is Now You See It.
"Now You See It" only had one major change - Christmas week 1974 when they totally revamped the format (speaking of that, has anyone got that first revamped episode on tape?)
They did have a minor change part way through with the "bonus answers" rule, where contestants could get 10 extra points if they got an answer right that they wrote down before the round started. [/quote]
Biggest change of all was getting rid of the "Chump Change" theme music in favor of an Edd Kalehoff composition midway through the series. (By the time the show went off the air, "Chump Change" was back.)
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[quote name=\'davemackey\' date=\'Nov 26 2003, 04:14 PM\'] Biggest change of all was getting rid of the "Chump Change" theme music in favor of an Edd Kalehoff composition midway through the series. (By the time the show went off the air, "Chump Change" was back.) [/quote]
That was one of Kalehoff's worst compositions, IMO. Sounded very uneven and well, bad.
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That was one of Kalehoff's worst compositions, IMO. Sounded very uneven and well, bad.
...which is prolly why it only lasted a coupla wks before Chump Change was reinstated, although they continued to use Kalehoff's theme as a commercial outro cue for the rest of the series.
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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[quote name=\'Brandon Brooks\' date=\'Nov 26 2003, 12:32 AM\'] [quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Nov 25 2003, 10:38 PM\'] Then again, maybe I fell for a joke and I didn't realize it...
[/quote]
Well, that's because it wasn't that good.
Brandon Brooks [/quote]
Actually, they did use try some other TAKE colors for a short period of time before they stuck with the Red and Green. Purple/Lavender came to mind as well as Orange were used, IIRC.
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Another subtle change in 1991 was the updating of the graphics, with the yellow doilleys being replaced with squares with brigter shades of Red and Yellow. The animation was more smooth too. The Car win cue was also changed.
Didn't Art James temporalliy take over for Gene Wood for a short while ?
-Joe R.
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' date=\'Nov 27 2003, 10:00 PM\'] [quote name=\'Brandon Brooks\' date=\'Nov 26 2003, 12:32 AM\'] [quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Nov 25 2003, 10:38 PM\'] Then again, maybe I fell for a joke and I didn't realize it...
[/quote]
Well, that's because it wasn't that good.
Brandon Brooks [/quote]
Actually, they did use try some other TAKE colors for a short period of time before they stuck with the Red and Green. Purple/Lavender came to mind as well as Orange were used, IIRC. [/quote]
This was one of my favorites back when it was on. I must have seen about 95% of the series.
First take (I think green) was added in November 1987. Second take was added in February 1988. Originally lavender for a week or two, them made red.
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[quote name=\'JRaygor\' date=\'Nov 28 2003, 12:58 PM\'] Another subtle change in 1991 was the updating of the graphics, with the yellow doilleys being replaced with squares with brigter shades of Red and Yellow. The animation was more smooth too. The Car win cue was also changed.
Didn't Art James temporalliy take over for Gene Wood for a short while ?
-Joe R. [/quote]
Yes, Art did a month of shows when Gene was sick.
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[quote name=\'Strikerz04\' date=\'Nov 25 2003, 07:55 AM\'] Lets not get started with the Bullard Version, albeit a $51,800 jackpot possible ($27450 was the highest ever won on this version...why I know this? I had the gall to actually tape the episode) [/quote]
I'm sorry to read you wasted 30 minutes of videotape.
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[quote name=\'DrJWJustice\' date=\'Nov 25 2003, 11:24 PM\'] [quote name=\'matchgame\' date=\'Nov 24 2003, 01:23 PM\'] "Password" has been abused both on-air (the *wonderful* 'Stars' format) and pre-air (Plus, Super). [/quote]
PW All-Stars could be called an abuse, but I don't think I can agree with PW+ being an abuse. Allen Ludden actually seemed to like the challenge of the Password Puzzle aspect of the game. Now, the specifics of the format changed as it went thorugh a very tortured 3-year run. That *might* qualify as abuse, but I'll leave that to the eye of the beholder.
SuperPW was little more than a tweaking of PW+, and it stayed true to its format throughout its run. [/quote]
Was just going to mention Password Plus as another tinkered G-T show. In its three-year run, let's see if I can get all bases covered...in no particular order...
- 6 --> 4 clues per password
- Wrong puzzle guesses lose option --> Person who guesses password keeps the option no matter what
- Opposites allowed --> No opposites
-And of course, circa 1982 changes...
- Two $100 rounds, $200 thereafter ---> Three $100's, $200 thereafter. Along with that, the winning score went from $300 to $500. And on a related topic...
- Same partners throughout game --> Changing partners after the $100 rounds
- Alphabetics worth $5,000 every time --> Alphabetics goes up by $5,000 every time it isn't won (and as such, the $1,000 penalty for illegal clues became 1/5 of the jackpot)
And then there's the cosmetic changes to the show (I know we only meant rules, but I'm on a roll)
- Hosts of course
- Hanging Alphabetics board --> Board hidden in wall
- By 1982, the letter indicator for Alphabetics went much faster
- Main game puzzle board: Rainbow + non-neon numbers + border --> Rainbow + neon numbers and border, and the numbers "shut off" when you uncovered clues --> Rainbow board + Neon that stays on the whole time --> Blue checkerboard or "disco" design as Allen called it --> Checkerboard with narrower font and slot for sliding clues and answer in.
- Password display on desk went from yellow to white (did its font get skinnier too? if so it was more subtle than the puzzle board)
- Chyron for stars' intro --> No chyron post-Allen comeback
- Showing the puzzle board revealing passwords/full-board shot --> Only zooming in on the words on the board revealed (think it started with or a bit before the Kennedy run)
Did I cover everything?
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Did I cover everything?
Well, it's minute, but the "It's more than Password..." portion of the opening spiel was removed from it near the end of the run, w/Gene simply announcing "It's P+!".
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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I don't know if this ever happened, but would the champ get any credit if he or she managed to get the 7th pair matched as soon as the clock hit Zero?
Say that there's about 2 seconds left in the WC game. As soon as the clock hits zero, the player manages to match the final car pair. Does he or she win the car?
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Dec 6 2003, 01:00 AM\'] I don't know if this ever happened, but would the champ get any credit if he or she managed to get the 7th pair matched as soon as the clock hit Zero?
Say that there's about 2 seconds left in the WC game. As soon as the clock hits zero, the player manages to match the final car pair. Does he or she win the car? [/quote]
I've seen it happen...yes, they win...the guy I'm thinking of actually challenged the buzzer, and they replayed it after commercial, and ruled it a win.
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I don't know if this ever happened, but would the champ get any credit if he or she managed to get the 7th pair matched as soon as the clock hit Zero?
Say that there's about 2 seconds left in the WC game. As soon as the clock hits zero, the player manages to match the final car pair. Does he or she win the car?
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I've seen it happen...yes, they win...the guy I'm thinking of actually challenged the buzzer, and they replayed it after commercial, and ruled it a win.
Interestingly enough, the video at John Ricci's site of his Amiga version of the game had such a situation. If you matched as the clock hit zero, a .wav of Alex saying "...we're going to check the tape and we'll see if you said the number before the clock went to zero." The other clips in the game suggest this was from when the contestant did NOT succeed in challenging the clock, but it does show CC did it.
-Jason