The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Jimmy Owen on December 23, 2011, 06:53:25 AM
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Thirty seven years ago, a couple of shows debuted on ABC which greatly influenced my love of game shows! Happy Anniversary Ron Greenberg, Jim Peck, Dan Daniel and of course, Heather Cunningham and the rest of the staff on the outstanding show "The Big Showdown." Also to Nick Clooney, Alan Kalter and the late Don Lipp, for the amazing "Money Maze." With all the other great shows on network TV and in prime access, this week in 1974 was a great time for game shows!
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I still can't believe The Big Showdown hasn't returned to TV. It was a superbly-crafted game show that involved a great deal of strategy.
Money Maze, though not as strategic, was a fun little show as well that equally deserves another shot.
I just looked over my Top 50 list that I sent to Matt O. a few years ago. I'm shocked that I included Maze but excluded Showdown, possibly because I hadn't seen the latter at that point. Five years later, I'd easily put that show on my list.
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Both born and deceased on the same day with the 4th of July '75 being the final air date for both.
Other pairs of shows to debut and cease on the same date were Stumpers! and 50 Grand Slam in 1976 and the tandem of Scrabble and Scattergories in 1993.
But, yes, Jimmy, two fine programs. Thirty-seven years ago, you say. Golly Moses, how time flies for I remember both shows clearly from their original runs.
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Both born and deceased on the same day with the 4th of July '75 being the final air date for both.
Other pairs of shows to debut and cease on the same date were Stumpers! and 50 Grand Slam in 1976 and the tandem of Scrabble and Scattergories in 1993.
Didn't Knockout and To Say The Least also join the "born and deceased the same day" club?
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Both born and deceased on the same day with the 4th of July '75 being the final air date for both.
Other pairs of shows to debut and cease on the same date were Stumpers! and 50 Grand Slam in 1976 and the tandem of Scrabble and Scattergories in 1993.
Didn't Knockout and To Say The Least also join the "born and deceased the same day" club?
Indeed they did. I knew there were others. I just couldn't summon them to my recall at the time of my typing.
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I still can't believe The Big Showdown hasn't returned to TV. It was a superbly-crafted game show that involved a great deal of strategy.
Sadly I think you answered your own (implied) question there. I bet if you were to take our Top 50 lists, you'd see more overlap than outliers.
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I just looked over my Top 50 list that I sent to Matt O. a few years ago. I'm shocked that I included Maze but excluded Showdown, possibly because I hadn't seen the latter at that point. Five years later, I'd easily put that show on my list
I wonder if we were to all submit top 50 lists again if the results would be any different. I'm sure over the years our appreciations for some of these older shows has changed - either by episodes being found or just looking at these shows more closely.
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It's funny we bring up those Top 50 lists from 5 years ago. Just a couple weeks ago, I was actually looking over my list and the overall list that we came up with.
I have to admit that I don't think there would be much difference between our lists if we made it now versus 2006. At least I know that my 50 are still what they are. The only shows I can see changing position for any of us would be those shows that are currently on the air or have come and gone in the last 5 years. So, strictly for example, some might put 5th Grader or Minute to Win It in their lists, might remove Deal or No Deal, and might raise or lower the status of Feud, Let's Make A Deal or Price based on Steve's, Wayne's and Drew's current eras.
But in looking at our combined list today, the one show where Ottinger's comments really caught my eye was Let's Make A Deal. As he said:
"At some point, after all the Billy Bushes and Ricki Lakes get through with it, we'll all realize that this show is Monty Hall, Monty Hall is this show, and no one should ever try to remake it ever again."
After all of the great things we've said about Wayne and the gang these past 2+ years, I can't help but ask: Hey Matt, do you think that's still true?
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After all of the great things we've said about Wayne and the gang these past 2+ years, I can't help but ask: Hey Matt, do you think that's still true?
I'm not Matt, but I certainly do.
Don't get me wrong; I think Wayne's show is inoffensive enough. But it also feels like all of the soul is sucked out of it, and all of that pretty much ties back to Monty not being involved.
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Don't get me wrong; I think Wayne's show is inoffensive enough. But it also feels like all of the soul is sucked out of it, and all of that pretty much ties back to Monty not being involved.
I feel the same way. It's a decent enough show. But there's just something dry and generic about the show.
Wayne is a good host, but he just doesn't seem "in to it". Sometimes does an entire show in monotone, even after a big win. Maybe it's me.
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Don't get me wrong; I think Wayne's show is inoffensive enough. But it also feels like all of the soul is sucked out of it, and all of that pretty much ties back to Monty not being involved.
I feel the same way. It's a decent enough show. But there's just something dry and generic about the show.
That's how I feel as well. All the LMaD elements are there, but it's like everyone's there just to collect a paycheck. Even the short-lived 80s and 90s versions brought you in, and I don't necessarily think it's all because Monty hosted. I think if the producers put in a little extra effort, it could work with Wayne as host.
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I feel the same way. It's a decent enough show. But there's just something dry and generic about the show.
Is it because most games are essentially binary decisions? There are no pricing games like the older versions. I'd even like the vintage cash register game from the 70s and 80s with dollar amounts and some "no sale" results. Just something besides "the cash or the box/curtain" variations 75% of the time.
What bugs me about Wayne is that he holds the microphone right up to his mouth. It's a small thing but it still irks me.
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Is it because most games are essentially binary decisions? There are no pricing games like the older versions. I'd even like the vintage cash register game from the 70s and 80s with dollar amounts and some "no sale" results. Just something besides "the cash or the box/curtain" variations 75% of the time.
For me it gets down to the same thing as TPIR; there are good games, and the rest of them are absolute rubbish. LMAD has a few decent games, like Door #4, and the Driver's Test game from High Rollers and the no-repeats dice game. And the rest is the same stupid box-or-bucks games that I blip through, or maybe I'll stop and see that box-or-bucks is being played as a talent show or at a hair salon. I don't care, because tarting up X or Y doesn't make that choice any more interesting. Give me more meat, less bun.
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Give me more meat, less bun.
I was getting ready to type something, but I decided against.
Merry Christmas, everybody!
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Don't get me wrong; I think Wayne's show is inoffensive enough. But it also feels like all of the soul is sucked out of it, and all of that pretty much ties back to Monty not being involved.
I feel the same way. It's a decent enough show. But there's just something dry and generic about the show.
I agree with J.R. that there are just too many elements that made Monty's LMAD versions unique that have been stripped from the current version for no real good reason:
• Why you need to get the audience riled up before every deal instead of just walking up to someone and surprising them that they will do the next deal.
• Why you cannot do any games involving guessing the prices of products because it makes the show too much like TPIR.
• Why you must have only one person do the Big Deal when it doesn't really cost you any extra $ -- especially if the 2 non-Big Deal prizes are equal to or less than the trader's original loot.
Some days, it just feels like Wayne's show is closer to "The Fun Factory" and/or "The Wizard of Odds" than "Let's Make A Deal".
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I agree wholeheartedly with Tim, adding that there's also a distinct lack of incentives -- opening Curtain #1 to show a set of Turtle Wax and offer that plus whatever's behind it, having the Big Box be (and represent a supply of) some Creamettes, or handing out cans of Poppycock popcorn/boxes of Andes chocolates and saying that there's something inside (and if you peek, then no deal for you).
Another problem is the long pauses and generic sounds. The Zonk sound is annoying, and there's no need to have the word "ZONK" plastered everywhere; if it's a Zonk, let it speak for itself.
The other thing is that Wayne doesn't have Monty's authoritarian style -- where Monty would say "And you have what's behind Curtain #2, and it's something for big babies!" (a giant set of strollers), Wayne just says "Open Curtain #2." and lets Mangum say what the prize is. He also says things like "We hope the Big Deal is (not) behind Door #x." and "WHO WANTS TO MAKE A DEAL?!" instead of "I'm gonna make a deal with you-you-you." (pointing to three people next to each other).
Without the air of authority and used-car salesman style of Monty Hall, Wayne Brady sounds like he's totally clueless.
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Wayne is a good host, but he just doesn't seem "in to it". Sometimes does an entire show in monotone, even after a big win. Maybe it's me.
It's not. The other day, I caught a couple minutes, and Wayne actually managed to say "Wow" less enthusiastically than Drew.
I don't look at the show too often, but the few looks I do take are always enough to remind me why.
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• Why you must have only one person do the Big Deal when it doesn't really cost you any extra $ -- especially if the 2 non-Big Deal prizes are equal to or less than the trader's original loot.
How does this work? Two players for the Big Deal means you pay off the big deal twice as often, plus you give out the consolation doors twice as much.
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Another problem is the long pauses and generic sounds. The Zonk sound is annoying and there's no need to have the word "ZONK" plastered everywhere; if it's a Zonk, let it speak for itself.
Why does the ZONK sign bother so many people here? On my meter of things that irritate me about this show (it's on at work as I type), that's extremely low on my list. The audience standing up and/or cheering for every. Single. THING? Now that is near the top, especially in the intro. It's one thing to give him a standing ovation when he walks in, but they do it when he's already standing at center stage. Makes no sense.
The one-person Big Deal that tries to build faux suspense. That's up there. The ZONK graphic? Nah, not as much, if at all.
FWIW, the sound effect reminds me a bit of the one used in the 80s version. It's goofy music to let you know you just got pwned.
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I've got two things to say, one for the direction that I inadvertently took this, and one for the original intention of this thread.
First, about my thing, gotta say this stunned me. I thought Wayne had been doing a better job in your eyes. Make no mistake, no one is ever going to make us forget Monty and his version of the show. It will always be the best. But I feel that to just dismiss it because "it's not Monty" isn't fair, and we've been down this road already with today's shows several times. I admit at first, I thought Wayne & Co. ran a very slow show, I wasn't keen on the zonk sign and the solo Big Deal, either. But I HAVE enjoyed the improv comedy, because it adds to the banter that Wayne does with the contestants, which I feel he does do well and does show that he cares what happens to them. I think the original games they have are real good (and Beat The Dealer & the Cash Register/Board are still there). They have picked up pace this season a bit. And while yeah, they do like most shows today do and find more excuse to have the audience going nuts for everything, that's just today's audience. It's a weaker measuring stick for sure, but I still feel that the current version is doing pretty well for what it is and will continue to do so. They have to be doing something right or else Les would've given his wife even more airtime long before now.
Overall, is this more a question that you don't like the show today as a whole package, or just Wayne's style of presenting it?
While we ponder that, let me try to bring this back to the original topic.
I agree that The Big Showdown was terribly underrated, as was Jim Peck, who I still stick with as my most underrated host. The game was a great strategic rapid-fire quizzer. The dice game, while a little offbeat to the rest of the show, still kept true to the payoff point concept. (How much more could you do with the trivia anyway?) I could totally see it in today's market, but it would have to be on cable, I think, because in syndication, too many people would say it's too much like Jeopardy. (Here we go again with being hardened on the classics.) Overall, it made my Top 50, and maybe one day, I might duplicate it on the anime circuit.
Moneymaze, I wasn't as keen on, but I got the niche behind it. If it were revived today, I'd see it more as a kids game. The gimmick doesn't feel like it plays as well to adults. I'd still take a crack at it anyway, of course. :)
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I was born in 1978, and therefore very unfamiliar with The Big Showdown and almost wholly unaware of it before I found this board. I've only seen "The Big Falldown" episode, but man, did that ever give me an appetite for more. The format and gimmick are engaging and unique enough to keep the game from being boring or repetitive while adding some unique strategy. Plus, it's still straightforward enough to not veer off into Jay Wolpert WTF-ville. Sure, the bonus round is pure luck. But it's fun to watch, and I don't see all that much wrong with maingame victory being rewarded with a well-chromed game of chance for extra winnings.
Yes, Jeopardy! has withstood the test of time. But if I had the choice when in the mood for a rapid-fire quizzer, I'd take The Big Showdown, Split Second, or $ale of the Century/Aussie Temptation over the big J any day of the week.
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Yes, Jeopardy! has withstood the test of time. But if I had the choice when in the mood for a rapid-fire quizzer, I'd take The Big Showdown, Split Second, or $ale of the Century/Aussie Temptation over the big J any day of the week.
I'm almost there with you. There was a period in the mid-2000s when life wasn't exactly taking and so I was able to consume rather a lot of Australian game shows and other content, but I never thought of ordering the shows as Those and then Jeopardy. What makes you put 'em that way?
/I really can't quibble with your choices there in terms of what to watch, though. Not a one.
//on short call for trivia game night I have an envelope with questions for Big Showdown, Challengers, Sale of the Century, but not Split Second.
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Honestly, it might just be a matter of availability and/or novelty, in the sense that I've seen such a relatively small amount of the other shows. To some extent, Jeopardy might be a victim of its consistent success, just because it always has been the same thing with so little variation for so long. (That, and the way it seems exciting finishes have become more of an exception than a rule over the years. Final Jeopardy so often feels like Contestant's Row, with its own version of the $1 maneuver.) Jeopardy will give me my hardcore trivia fix, but I feel like the other shows also satisfy the craving while having some more engaging fun packed in. The risk/reward aspect of $ale, the question structure of Split Second, and the presentation and strategy of Showdown make each a more enjoyable viewing experience for me.
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and therefore very unfamiliar with The Big Showdown and almost wholly unaware of it before I found this board. I've only seen "The Big Falldown" episode, but man, did that ever give me an appetite for more.
I think that's the only episode I've seen as well. Unfortunately the show wasn't carried by my closest ABC affiliate, and trying to pull in the more distant one that aired it didn't work out too well. I have a better memory of Money Maze, only because I was able to watch it - the show was tape-delayed to the next morning in my area.
Would love to see more of both shows. Only one episode of each is in the trade curcuit.