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The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: TLEberle on July 05, 2013, 11:00:54 PM

Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: TLEberle on July 05, 2013, 11:00:54 PM
In an attempt to not totally wilt over the past week I\'ve been doing a lot of sitting around; some of it watching everyone\'s eighth favorite game of lady luck and definitions; and I was thinking to myself that toward the end of the run they almost had something really good. With some changes I think the show would be a solid one.

For one I\'d ditch the third player. It must be terribly frustrating to get on a show, lose the opening jump-in and not ever get to play before you\'re off the show.

I\'d also reduce the amount to win the game to $1,000. The game to $2,000 was an absolute slog especially when the value per question was a whole $25. (this is assuming that the game is played with categories and not the money amounts). This would be coupled with the rule that players alternated turns spinning but could still steal the money on a wrong answer. It is awkward to watch as one player builds up a huge lead and retain control just because his opponent can\'t pick up the rebound.

The bonus game on the original series had all the tension and unpredictability of a John Grisham novel. The match-three version was much better there, and Pat\'s monotone reading was one of necessity I think, since he\'s trying to get out as many questions as he can. The play-in bit is not only a good way to turn the game on its head but it rewards players who have a breadth of knowledge as well.

It would have been different enough from the original so that it wasn\'t a carbon copy, but the changes would make for a better game and better show as well.
Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: J.R. on July 05, 2013, 11:44:11 PM

Personally, I loved the earlier money format. I liked seeing questions worth \"unusual\" amounts like $85 or $130 and the game went slightly quicker because the value was rarely below $40.


 


I don\'t know how bold of a statement this is but: I find TJW90 better than TJW of the 70s-80s.


Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: TLEberle on July 05, 2013, 11:46:28 PM
I think it\'s fairly big words, but you wouldn\'t be the first person to make such a bold claim. Whyfor, J.R.?
Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: J.R. on July 05, 2013, 11:55:44 PM


I think it\'s fairly big words, but you wouldn\'t be the first person to make such a bold claim. Whyfor, J.R.?




I liked how they ditched the long-winded softball questions for categories and straight-forward definitions. The bigger goal ($2000 instead of $500) meant more opportunities to spin the slot machine and I liked the fact the bonus round had some kind of game attached to it, not just going on and on until the bad guy or goal is found.


 


I guess the only knock was Pat Finn robo-hosting his way though it, but he wasn\'t really that bad or anything.


 


Not saying the 78-86 version was horrible or anything, just though that there were aspects of the 1990 version that were better.


Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: Jay Temple on July 06, 2013, 01:57:55 PM

Step 1: Don\'t call it \"The Joker\'s Wild.\" It was a good enough game on its own without inviting comparisons to a game that it barely resembled.


Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: TLEberle on July 06, 2013, 02:52:27 PM
But v2.0 of the show actually felt like Joker\'s Wild.
Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: joker316 on July 06, 2013, 03:17:56 PM


But v2.0 of the show actually felt like Joker\'s Wild.




I totally agree with your sentiment, it\'s just that, to me, the first half of the run was nothing like the title. The joker was never wild, all it did was make all answers worth triple the spin total  for 15 seconds. So removed from the original concept, I felt the producers could put a different title on it and it would have been better received.


 


/only my opinion though, your opinions may vary!

Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: Vahan_Nisanian on July 06, 2013, 03:41:31 PM

From what I read on a few game show trading sites, during the last episode or so, for no reason, they went back to the dollar format.


Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: golden-road on July 06, 2013, 03:44:18 PM


From what I read on a few game show trading sites, during the last episode or so, for no reason, they went back to the dollar format.




 


Actually it was the last three episodes of the run and this was to make sure the series ended on a solid conclusion.

Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: TLEberle on July 06, 2013, 03:46:03 PM
How does that change make sure the show ends on \"a solid conclusion\"? Do you mean that they don\'t end mid-game or without giving the champion a chance to play against the joker machine?
Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: golden-road on July 06, 2013, 05:19:08 PM


How does that change make sure the show ends on \"a solid conclusion\"? Do you mean that they don\'t end mid-game or without giving the champion a chance to play against the joker machine?




 Exactly. Although they could\'ve just sounded a buzzer and the one ahead would\'ve won.

Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: Jeremy Nelson on July 06, 2013, 06:19:53 PM

How does that change make sure the show ends on \"a solid conclusion\"? Do you mean that they don\'t end mid-game or without giving the champion a chance to play against the joker machine?



The first format\'s match ended in 30 minutes. When the format changed, the show began straddling.
Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: Johnissoevil on July 07, 2013, 04:04:18 AM

Some interesting changes.  I wouldn\'t change anything about either TJW \'90 format, actually.  As someone who grew up on and is a fan of the Barry/Cullen version, I actually like TJW \'90 as it is.  Over the years, people have tended to overlook the fact that the game was still pretty damn good, despite the differences from the 70s/80s run.


Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: Strikerz04 on July 07, 2013, 11:25:09 AM


Some interesting changes.  I wouldn\'t change anything about either TJW \'90 format, actually.  As someone who grew up on and is a fan of the Barry/Cullen version, I actually like TJW \'90 as it is.  Over the years, people have tended to overlook the fact that the game was still pretty damn good, despite the differences from the 70s/80s run.




I would have the concur. It was a good twist on the format, and I prefer the money wheels to the actual categories. Clearly the stronger of the two B/E revivals that reappeared that year.


If anything, probably needed to find a less robotic version of Pat Finn (not that he was bad to start with).
Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: jage on July 07, 2013, 11:46:23 PM

Just get rid of that god awful endlessly-repeating theme.


Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: TLEberle on July 07, 2013, 11:49:25 PM

If anything, probably needed to find a less robotic version of Pat Finn (not that he was bad to start with).

I didn\'t find him to be robotic, but it was annoying at how shouty he got when somebody won big--no middle ground between excitement and droning?
Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: PYLdude on July 07, 2013, 11:52:48 PM
I would\'ve done it this way:


-wheels spun after every question


-questions instead of definitions


-higher starting dollar amounts on wheels in round 1


-two remaining players play classic Joker in round 2, with different values for questions (singles $200, doubles $300, triples $400). Also, if after a certain amount of turns nobody\'s won, question values increase until there is a winner.


-for the bonus game I\'d keep the round as it was but streamline the prizes (cash amounts and car), allow for freezing jokers, and put the Devil on the wheels just to keep a player on their toes.
Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: TimK2003 on July 08, 2013, 09:16:28 AM

One of the plausible reasons why they started to go with straddling games -- there was an episode which ran waaay short. And despite the stretching and long credit roll they still had more time to kill.  So they pulled people from the audience to spin the wheels for money or some sort of prize to fill the remaining time. 


 


Epic Fail.


Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: BrandonFG on July 08, 2013, 09:28:40 AM



 If anything, probably needed to find a less robotic version of Pat Finn (not that he was bad to start with).



I didn\'t find him to be robotic, but it was annoying at how shouty he got when somebody won big--no middle ground between excitement and droning?


You.....are.....CORRECT!!! Even when I was 9 or 10 watching it on USA, I found his buildup to be pretty cheesy.


 


As for the show, I thought it was pretty decent, but it should\'ve been called something other than \"The Joker\'s Wild\", seeing as how the version fresh in viewers\' minds had just ended four years prior. Honestly, there seemed to be a few elements from Bullseye, with the Joker acting as a wild card that allowed you to answer as many questions as possible instead of simply doubling the question value (a concept I really, really liked). Granted, it was with a time limit here, but still reminiscent of Bullseye. Even though TJW was the more prominent name to compliment Tic Tac Dough, I probably would\'ve made the show closer to Bullseye and removed the slot machine element, seeing as how the first version deviated quite a bit. First two to $500 was fine, but the game dragged trying to get to $2000. I actually liked the bonus format, even with the definitions. 


 


There was a game there, it just went by the wrong title.


Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: Johnissoevil on July 11, 2013, 07:35:04 AM


 


 



I would have the concur. It was a good twist on the format, and I prefer the money wheels to the actual categories. Clearly the stronger of the two B/E revivals that reappeared that year.


If anything, probably needed to find a less robotic version of Pat Finn (not that he was bad to start with).


 




 


I have to correct one thing I said in my previous post.  The one thing I would change would have to be during the category format, when Jokers show up on the wheels, allow the player to go off the board instead of limiting their choices to what came up on the wheels.

Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: Neumms on July 12, 2013, 08:09:27 PM


 



Honestly, there seemed to be a few elements from Bullseye, with the Joker acting as a wild card that allowed you to answer as many questions as possible instead of simply doubling the question value (a concept I really, really liked). Granted, it was with a time limit here, but still reminiscent of Bullseye. Even though TJW was the more prominent name to compliment Tic Tac Dough, I probably would\'ve made the show closer to Bullseye and removed the slot machine element, seeing as how the first version deviated quite a bit. First two to $500 was fine, but the game dragged trying to get to $2000. I actually liked the bonus format, even with the definitions. 

 




 


This pace and question writing could have saved Bullseye. That structure works better--the decision to bank or not gave it a little intrigue lacking here. 


 


This game doesn\'t work as \"Joker\'s Wild\" because the spins are so deemphasized. Spin a triple on Jack\'s version, you\'re two-fifths of the way home. A triple here and you\'re one-twentieth.


 


Cripes, the host is worse than I remember. 

Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: TLEberle on July 12, 2013, 08:25:18 PM

This game doesn\'t work as \"Joker\'s Wild\" because the spins are so deemphasized. Spin a triple on Jack\'s version, you\'re two-fifths of the way home. A triple here and you\'re one-twentieth.

That\'s just not true; if you get a category you know you can pile up a huge bankroll.
 

Cripes, the host is worse than I remember.

I find the opposite the case; he\'s not as bad as the \"memory\" makes him out to be.
Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: Neumms on July 13, 2013, 06:17:04 PM


 



This game doesn\'t work as \"Joker\'s Wild\" because the spins are so deemphasized. Spin a triple on Jack\'s version, you\'re two-fifths of the way home. A triple here and you\'re one-twentieth.



That\'s just not true; if you get a category you know you can pile up a huge bankroll.

 


 


 




 


Not true? It\'s math. You\'d need to peel off eight straight with a triple on Pat\'s version to gain as much ground as you would answering one right with a triple with Jack. Sure, seeing that happen would be exciting, but it\'s exciting regardless of the spin.


 


Maybe it would help if the goal amount were set lower. What if the two challengers played each other in a game to $1000, then winner takes on returning champ in a second game to $1000?


 


I do think it would help if there was risk involved, as with the \"Fast Forward\" category or, as noted, Bullseye. Maybe there should be a devil on the wheels.

Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: TLEberle on July 13, 2013, 06:29:53 PM
I was actually prepared to discuss this and explain how if you got a string of right answers you could pile up some decent bucks, and that you have no reason to play two games to $1,000 each if you want things to move faster, but you threw in that bit about a devil on the wheels and I realized that you\'re not really here for the discussion at all.
Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: Neumms on July 13, 2013, 06:30:39 PM


 


 

Cripes, the host is worse than I remember.



I find the opposite the case; he\'s not as bad as the \"memory\" makes him out to be.

 




 


I didn\'t see him fall and break anything or use the \"n\" word, but man, was he terrible. Terrible at going off script, terrible at chatting up the contestants, terrible (aside from raising his voice) at channeling the suspense. He struck me as a poor man\'s Jim Lange--nice voice, clean-cut, glasses, adds nothing, and somehow worse than Jim Lange. 

Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: Sonic Whammy on July 14, 2013, 12:36:45 AM

As someone who liked the bonus game of this format much better than Face The Devil, I say keep that part no matter what.


 


As far as the main game itself, the categories part worked much better math-wise, plus is does harken back more to the classic Joker. After watching a string on Youtube, though, I notice that even then there weren\'t a great amount of Jokers coming up. Perhaps the computer wheels could have been given a little higher Joker percentage. I\'ve actually freeze-framed 80\'s Joker I had on tape and found that a Joker came up 25% of the time in each window (5 out of the 20 slides loaded in, it came up every 4th slide.)


 


For the scoring, I propose two methods:


1) No second round. First to $1000 is the champ. Games straddle? So what.


2) Use $500 as the ending point of Round 1. Double the values for Round 2, play to the usual $2000. As the money format had higher values in Round 2 and played to the same endpoints, this idea fits that self-contained model they aimed for.


 


(Personal footnote: I never caught on until I saw these again in recent years that they used to give away trips to Lake George where I\'ve vacationed with my wife a couple times each summer since we met. Just makes me smile.)


Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: TLEberle on July 14, 2013, 12:45:41 AM

As far as the main game itself, the categories part worked much better math-wise, plus is does harken back more to the classic Joker. After watching a string on Youtube, though, I notice that even then there weren\'t a great amount of Jokers coming up. Perhaps the computer wheels could have been given a little higher Joker percentage.ere I\'ve vacationed with my wife a couple times each summer since we met. Just makes me smile.)

I can\'t prove it, but as a youth it seemed that three Jokers would come just as the first round was coming down the stretch, I don\'t remember it coming any other place in round one--this led me to believe that the spins weren\'t random at all but were loaded in before the game, and each one came up in proper order.
Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: Thunder on July 14, 2013, 12:48:04 AM

Just like the one time that the endgame jackpot got to the highest level and Finn kept plugging \"the chance that it could happen today\" multiple times. Surprisingly, it just happened to occur that same day.


Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: tyshaun1 on July 14, 2013, 01:47:01 PM


 



As far as the main game itself, the categories part worked much better math-wise, plus is does harken back more to the classic Joker. After watching a string on Youtube, though, I notice that even then there weren\'t a great amount of Jokers coming up. Perhaps the computer wheels could have been given a little higher Joker percentage.ere I\'ve vacationed with my wife a couple times each summer since we met. Just makes me smile.)



I can\'t prove it, but as a youth it seemed that three Jokers would come just as the first round was coming down the stretch, I don\'t remember it coming any other place in round one--this led me to believe that the spins weren\'t random at all but were loaded in before the game, and each one came up in proper order.

 




I always believed that the spin amounts in TJW \'90 were predetermined when the lever was pulled. If you watch the show now, the same dollar combinations came up on every spin. The Joker in the 3rd window came up on $30 or $45 totals in the first 2 windows, no more, no less.


 


Tyshaun


Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: Sonic Whammy on July 14, 2013, 10:51:49 PM

Agreed on all counts about preprogramming. And that\'s a bummer, really. At least whenever some of us have created our own Joker softwares, it\'s been a random spin, even if the probabilities didn\'t match to the show like they should have.


 


So there\'s another thing they could\'ve fixed.


Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: Big Brain on July 15, 2013, 10:12:44 AM

Only going off of memory, but I would bet a Fin(n) that I saw a 50-50-Joker happen at least once.  And it certainly could have been preprogrammed, as a way to really move the game along. 


Title: How to improve Joker's Wild 90
Post by: Sonic Whammy on July 17, 2013, 12:38:44 AM


I always believed that the spin amounts in TJW \'90 were predetermined when the lever was pulled. If you watch the show now, the same dollar combinations came up on every spin. The Joker in the 3rd window came up on $30 or $45 totals in the first 2 windows, no more, no less.




In the early run of the show, yes. But after a number of weeks, the values started coming up a little bit, particularly in the 2nd round. Go to the 15 minute mark in this episode for proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62ti3Y-1_Pc