The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: gamed121683 on January 11, 2004, 06:27:08 PM
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I can recall this time last year lurking at a place called, um, ATGS (you all remember that place now, do you?) and the big hoopla was about "What the heck were GSN thinking when they added LC & Trivia Trap to the schedule?" My guess was becuase that these shows were really disliked. I mean, I'll be honest with you I liked both shows. "Trap" becuase I'm a big trivia fan (so maybe I'm a bit biased but the format I must admit was a bit flawed [unheard of from a Goodson show]). "Love Connection", as corny as it is, I also liked. Also, I don't care what anyone says IT IS A GAME SHOW!
I do not know why as a whole, these shows are right up there with (for the sake of arugment) "The Chamber" as one of the worst games to every be on TV.
Guesses, group?
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Perhaps because we expected something better from Mark Goodson in the way of a trivia game. The problem most of us had with the show was obvious in episode one - when you got the questions and the four possible answers, if you knew the answer immediately - or even gave it a good guess - by the time all the contestants gave us their overlong reasons for choosing the answers and finally revealing them, you wanted to scream. It d-r-a-g-g-e-d. After Trivial Pursuit hit big, all the networks probably screamed "give us a show about trivia!" - and what quiz show isn't about trivia? - and this seemed to be a show slapped together too fast. The quiz games where the answers are dealt with within moments of asking the questions tend to be the most satisfying. A problem/puzzle game (What's My Line?, Wheel Of Fortune, Concentration) where the home viewer has the potential to figure out the answer ahead of the contestants can still be fun if there's entertainment value in watching the contestants figure it out. But don't make us wait three minutes or more waiting for the answer to one question.
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[quote name=\'The Ol' Guy\' date=\'Jan 11 2004, 07:50 PM\'] Perhaps because we expected something better from Mark Goodson in the way of a trivia game. The problem most of us had with the show was obvious in episode one - when you got the questions and the four possible answers, if you knew the answer immediately - or even gave it a good guess - by the time all the contestants gave us their overlong reasons for choosing the answers and finally revealing them, you wanted to scream. It d-r-a-g-g-e-d. After Trivial Pursuit hit big, all the networks probably screamed "give us a show about trivia!" - and what quiz show isn't about trivia? - and this seemed to be a show slapped together too fast. The quiz games where the answers are dealt with within moments of asking the questions tend to be the most satisfying. A problem/puzzle game (What's My Line?, Wheel Of Fortune, Concentration) where the home viewer has the potential to figure out the answer ahead of the contestants can still be fun if there's entertainment value in watching the contestants figure it out. But don't make us wait three minutes or more waiting for the answer to one question. [/quote]
Gee, then I guess "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire" was a crappy show too, eh?
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[quote name=\'gamed121683\' date=\'Jan 11 2004, 04:27 PM\'] My guess was becuase that these shows were really disliked.
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They added them to the schedule because they were really disliked. Yeah. Thats a BRILLIANT assessment.
Also, I don't care what anyone says IT IS A GAME SHOW!
You're entitled to that opinion. It's horribly wrong, but you're entitled to it.
I do not know why as a whole, these shows are right up there with (for the sake of arugment) "The Chamber" as one of the worst games to every be on TV.
Guesses, group?
I don't think TT is as disliked as you think it was, other than the fact that it revealed that straight Q/A isn't exactly Bob Eubanks' forte. As for LC, well, it's a crappy, insipid dating show, that's my guess.
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Crappy would be a rather harsh word as far as Millionaire goes - if every question on that show had a two to three-minute wait for an answer when you knew it as soon as it was asked, would you enjoy it as much? IIRC, there have been a couple of times extremely long contestant final answer times were edited down. Correct me if I'm in error.
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[quote name=\'The Ol' Guy\' date=\'Jan 11 2004, 11:13 PM\'] IIRC, there have been a couple of times extremely long contestant final answer times were edited down. Correct me if I'm in error. [/quote]
That has indeed been the case, one notable time is during season one of the syndie run where we saw "Much Later" and "Much Much Later" graphics on the screen.
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Thanks, Zach - and in the original ABC run, I thought the fella who had to pick the insect that led to the term "computer bug" for a million waited a very long time to make his choice - that one was edited, too, IIRC. It was good of the producers to be kind to the audience. Let's face it - any time any of us makes a general blanket statement, there will always be one or two successful exceptions to the rule...but usually the rule stands. There was no compelling million-dollar reason for a viewer to have to wait for an answer on Trivia Trap. Joker's Wild with a :60 response time limit? Yipe!! :-)
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Love Connection is a pretty neat thing added to GSN. I love watching that show and seeing the Dates go good or bad and the insults to each other.
My question is, if its such a BAD show, why has it been on for almost 11 years?
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[quote name=\'gamed121683\' date=\'Jan 11 2004, 06:27 PM\'] "Love Connection", as corny as it is, I also liked. Also, I don't care what anyone says IT IS A GAME SHOW!
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And by that reasoning, Bonanza was a soap opera because of the Adam-Laura-Will triangle--no matter what anyone says.
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[quote name=\'DJDustman\' date=\'Jan 11 2004, 09:48 PM\'] Love Connection is a pretty neat thing added to GSN. I love watching that show and seeing the Dates go good or bad and the insults to each other.
My question is, if its such a BAD show, why has it been on for almost 11 years? [/quote]
That's a classic. A show running a long time means it was successful, but it sure as HELL doesn't mean it was good.
Three's Company.
Of course, it's a subjective term. You might think it's good, and that might not surprise me.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 01:45 AM\'] [quote name=\'DJDustman\' date=\'Jan 11 2004, 09:48 PM\'] Love Connection is a pretty neat thing added to GSN. I love watching that show and seeing the Dates go good or bad and the insults to each other.
My question is, if its such a BAD show, why has it been on for almost 11 years? [/quote]
That's a classic. A show running a long time means it was successful, but it sure as HELL doesn't mean it was good.
Three's Company.
Of course, it's a subjective term. You might think it's good, and that might not surprise me. [/quote]
Ob Gameshows: Ill add STYD to that list, Commercial successes sometimes drag longer than most people like but they pull enough ratings and sponsors to keep going like the Engerizer Bunny. In STYD's case its on its 4th (and best) reincarnation (at least its watchable).
That being said, LC does have a very good entertainment value, just don't call it a game show.
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IIRC, there have been a couple of times extremely long contestant final answer times were edited down. Correct me if I'm in error.
There was also the ABC version from July 30, 2000, where a lady contestant blows the $500,000 question and falls back to $32,000. Her three questions on that show took over 20 minutes to answer, but there was a report that she took over 50 minutes just on one of those questions, so a lot was edited out.
I'd have hated to be in the audience during that.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 08:23 AM\']
IIRC, there have been a couple of times extremely long contestant final answer times were edited down. Correct me if I'm in error.
There was also the ABC version from July 30, 2000, where a lady contestant blows the $500,000 question and falls back to $32,000. Her three questions on that show took over 20 minutes to answer, but there was a report that she took over 50 minutes just on one of those questions, so a lot was edited out.
I'd have hated to be in the audience during that. [/quote]
Kati Knudsen was her name.
Ooh, the heartbreak. She had it right the first time, then changed it at the last possible moment. I would've just taken the money.
In addition, to respond to the "Much Later," and "Much Much Later" post, that player was Minda Lopez, and she went back down to $1,000 after missing that $8,000 question.
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Even though KTRK had Donahue over Trivia Trap, I saw the reruns on GSN!
There were some sound effects that would later be used for future shows.
RISING OF THE BOARD: Match Game's wheel on ABC.
REVEALING CATEGORYS: Family Feud's Fast Money starting with Ray Combs.
CORRECT WRONG ANSWER: Classic Concentration door opening & Now You See It's board (Chuck Henry)
INCORRECT ANSWER: PATHFINDER!
CORRECT BONUS ANSWER & SWEEP ON MAIN GAME ROUND: Family Feud end theme. THAT short cue should be use to intro Punch-A-Bunch keeping the long cue for my favorite, GRAND GAME!!!
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At least Chuck wore a jacket and tie on LC. I'm not fond of hosts wearing casual clothes on game shows, not to mention the awful duds the contestants had to wear on TT. "Trap" was not well thought out. I stopped watching after the first few weeks.
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[quote name=\'GSWitch\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 02:51 PM\']Even though KTRK had Donahue over Trivia Trap, I saw the reruns on GSN!
There were some sound effects that would later be used for future shows.
RISING OF THE BOARD: Match Game's wheel on ABC.[/quote]
Actually, I thought I read somewhere (it was either on here, on ezBoard, or on ATGS (All Trolls Getting Stupid) just before I finally left that group in Dec. '02) that this "Rising of the Board" SFX of which you speak, and the one for the lowering of the wheel on MG '90, were two totally different sound effects.
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[quote name=\'The Ol' Guy\' date=\'Jan 11 2004, 08:50 PM\'] After Trivial Pursuit hit big, all the networks probably screamed "give us a show about trivia!" - and what quiz show isn't about trivia? - and this seemed to be a show slapped together too fast. [/quote]
How many different games can you set up where the main object is knowledge of trivia? I thought having each player rule out one wrong answer was at least an interesting concept, although the rest of the game wasn't terribly imaginative.
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[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 12:25 PM\'] [quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 08:23 AM\']
IIRC, there have been a couple of times extremely long contestant final answer times were edited down. Correct me if I'm in error.
There was also the ABC version from July 30, 2000, where a lady contestant blows the $500,000 question and falls back to $32,000. Her three questions on that show took over 20 minutes to answer, but there was a report that she took over 50 minutes just on one of those questions, so a lot was edited out.
I'd have hated to be in the audience during that. [/quote]
Kati Knudsen was her name.
Ooh, the heartbreak. She had it right the first time, then changed it at the last possible moment. I would've just taken the money. [/quote]
IIRC, she debated in favor of three of the four answers before finally deciding.
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I'll agree with you, Jay - Mark (like every producer) was in the unenviable position of trying to at least give a new spin to an often-done idea. I don't think any of the most popular trivia board games at the time forced players to eliminate wrong answers to find the right one, so Mark tried to come up with something that he could call his own contribuition. Can't blame him for trying. For what it's worth, I just finished typing the outline for probably the 5th revision of the word game I hope to bring to access cable this spring because no matter what style of play I come up with, I can think of half a dozen shows that have used something similar. I'm trying to balance a workable idea with a play style that hasn't been overdone, add a twist, yet is still in a form that will be recognized enough to make a viewer comfortable because of its similarity. Strange how that works, but it's television/music/movies in a nutshell. Networks want their own versions of a competitor's hit, so it has to be close enough without copying, yet if you go too far away from the hit idea, people may not take enough time to figure out what you're trying to do. It's all in the presentation.
and P.S. - Mark's TT still fit what I believe is the difference between most G-T games and those of others: Mark's games have often been geared for the thinking player/viewer, as compared to the knowing player/viewer. He seems to prefer puzzles to quizzes, and he tried to merge the two together - deduce what doesn't fit to find the right answer. This one just didn't mesh well - which is also probably why Jack Barry didn't last long at GT.
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this "Rising of the Board" SFX of which you speak, and the one for the lowering of the wheel on MG '90, were two totally different sound effects.
They were indeed.
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
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[quote name=\'The Ol' Guy\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 11:00 PM\']Mark's TT still fit what I believe is the difference between most G-T games and those of others: Mark's games have often been geared for the thinking player/viewer, as compared to the knowing player/viewer. He seems to prefer puzzles to quizzes, and he tried to merge the two together - deduce what doesn't fit to find the right answer. This one just didn't mesh well - which is also probably why Jack Barry didn't last long at GT.[/quote]
Correct deduction--"Blockbusters" was the only out-and-out Q&A after "Winner Take All" that G-T ever did (I can argue that "Two for the Money" was less about straight Q&A and more about giving lists of things that have something in common). And "Blockbusters" was different by making the Q&A part of a kind of puzzle (connect one side to the other), rather than the usual highest-score-wins.
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Mark had a couple of Q&A and novelty shows in his radio days - Pop The Question, Rate Your Mate, and the original Beat The Clock with Bill Cullen, but they weren't much different from many other radio quizzes. It's well that he explored other directions for his games, or he could have been just a small footnote in broadcast history.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 01:06 PM\'] [quote name=\'The Ol' Guy\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 11:00 PM\']Mark's TT still fit what I believe is the difference between most G-T games and those of others: Mark's games have often been geared for the thinking player/viewer, as compared to the knowing player/viewer. He seems to prefer puzzles to quizzes, and he tried to merge the two together - deduce what doesn't fit to find the right answer. This one just didn't mesh well - which is also probably why Jack Barry didn't last long at GT.[/quote]
Correct deduction--"Blockbusters" was the only out-and-out Q&A after "Winner Take All" that G-T ever did (I can argue that "Two for the Money" was less about straight Q&A and more about giving lists of things that have something in common). And "Blockbusters" was different by making the Q&A part of a kind of puzzle (connect one side to the other), rather than the usual highest-score-wins. [/quote]
In addition, there was the 1989 TKO pilot with Peter Tomarken, which was a Jeopardy type game with Blockbusters-esque questions.
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[quote name=\'PeterMarshallFan\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 06:38 PM\'] [quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 01:06 PM\'] [quote name=\'The Ol' Guy\' date=\'Jan 12 2004, 11:00 PM\']Mark's TT still fit what I believe is the difference between most G-T games and those of others: Mark's games have often been geared for the thinking player/viewer, as compared to the knowing player/viewer. He seems to prefer puzzles to quizzes, and he tried to merge the two together - deduce what doesn't fit to find the right answer. This one just didn't mesh well - which is also probably why Jack Barry didn't last long at GT.[/quote]
Correct deduction--"Blockbusters" was the only out-and-out Q&A after "Winner Take All" that G-T ever did (I can argue that "Two for the Money" was less about straight Q&A and more about giving lists of things that have something in common). And "Blockbusters" was different by making the Q&A part of a kind of puzzle (connect one side to the other), rather than the usual highest-score-wins. [/quote]
In addition, there was the 1989 TKO pilot with Peter Tomarken, which was a Jeopardy type game with Blockbusters-esque questions. [/quote]
NYSI(particularly the 70s run) and the aforementioned Trivia Trap also somewhat qualify as Q&A games.