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The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Matt Ottinger on January 05, 2015, 07:38:23 PM

Title: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: Matt Ottinger on January 05, 2015, 07:38:23 PM
Pretty intense, too.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/01/05/how-to-win-wheel-of-fortune/?tid=sm_fb
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: brianhenke on January 05, 2015, 08:38:35 PM
     He must have not watched Wheel that much during the seven years analyzed. He says that Vanna still flips letters on the board. She has been touching them since 1997.

     Brian
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: TLEberle on January 05, 2015, 08:40:11 PM
Some time ago I made an offhand comment about doing something like this, and I remember when Steve McClellan was on the show some years ago I helped him by playing a battery of bonus puzzles with prescribed bonus letter choices to see which ones were the most helpful.
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on January 05, 2015, 10:21:58 PM
He must have not watched Wheel that much during the seven years analyzed. He says that Vanna still flips letters on the board. She has been touching them since 1997.

Seriously?  That's your takeaway from this?
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: Kevin Prather on January 05, 2015, 11:34:56 PM
I think this article is fascinating.

I've always advocated using CD(M, H or B)A for two reasons: 1) that's four of the most common letters in the English language (which, as the article mentioned, doesn't mean jack squat when the producers are making a point to avoid those letters), and also 2) with ten of the most common letters accounted for, even lots of blank spaces provide valuable information. With large expanses of letters unrevealed, you know you have to click your brain into an alternate mode, and start thinking about compound words and awkward letters like Js, Ks and Ws.

G, H and O make sense since they show up in a lot of adjectives (like "rough" and "tough"), which the writers have liked in recent years.

If this really is the trend, I wonder if contestants will catch on and start migrating towards it.
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: TLEberle on January 05, 2015, 11:47:30 PM
If this really is the trend, I wonder if contestants will catch on and start migrating towards it.
It's essentially a long-form series of rock-paper-scissors or choosing the wine: if you believe that the producers have chosen a particular set of letters, pick those. If it works, you're golden. ON the other hand, and the thing you alluded to, you can also glean information from which letters are not in the puzzle as well.
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: SRIV94 on January 06, 2015, 01:59:05 PM
He must have not watched Wheel that much during the seven years analyzed. He says that Vanna still flips letters on the board. She has been touching them since 1997.

Seriously?  That's your takeaway from this?

Well, words do have meanings, after all.  :)
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: MSTieScott on January 06, 2015, 02:57:27 PM
This would require a great deal of additional analysis, but I'm curious as to whether a contestant should stay away from apparent "traps." For example, it is my hypothesis that if T_E is showing, then the contestant should deliberately avoid selecting the H -- are the producers hoping to sucker the contestant into wasting a pick on a letter that won't appear anywhere else in the puzzle? (Similarly, is it advisable to not choose the A when there's a single blank space in a non-phrase puzzle?)

In fact, now that I think about it, I wonder how many "THE"s (with no other H's in the puzzle) are affecting these results.
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: weaklink75 on January 06, 2015, 03:35:08 PM
It's certainly detailed, that's for sure...I'd think A or I would be the most likely vowel to call, not O (because A and I would be the only two possibilities for a single-letter word, so if you call one of them and it doesn't come up, you know it's the other one)...

One thing I'd like to know is what kind of win percentage the producers are shooting for in bonus rounds- seems to me about 30-40% (and if they have a run of wins or losses in previous taping sessions, they can adjust the difficulty of the puzzles accordingly in later ones).
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: Dbacksfan12 on January 06, 2015, 04:18:58 PM
It's certainly detailed, that's for sure...I'd think A or I would be the most likely vowel to call, not O (because A and I would be the only two possibilities for a single-letter word, so if you call one of them and it doesn't come up, you know it's the other one)...
If the circumstances are right, however, you should able to discern that on your own.  If the category is thing, for example, I'd like to think A is the only possibility, outside of something like iPod (but then it'd all be one word).
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: Kevin Prather on January 06, 2015, 05:45:45 PM
It's certainly detailed, that's for sure...I'd think A or I would be the most likely vowel to call, not O (because A and I would be the only two possibilities for a single-letter word, so if you call one of them and it doesn't come up, you know it's the other one)...
If the circumstances are right, however, you should able to discern that on your own.  If the category is thing, for example, I'd like to think A is the only possibility, outside of something like iPod (but then it'd all be one word).
If the category is title, quotation or phrase, it'll be a little more difficult.
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: Unrealtor on January 07, 2015, 01:45:34 AM
"O" is a perfectly cromulent one-letter English word as well, but I wouldn't expect to see it anywhere other than in a title.

And if Prince is involved, "U" can also appear in titles.
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: Kevin Prather on January 07, 2015, 01:51:17 AM
And if Prince is involved, "U" can also appear in titles.

Beg pardon?
(http://a5.files.biography.com/image/upload/c_fill,dpr_1.0,g_face,h_300,q_80,w_300/MTE4MDAzNDEwNzA1Njc5ODg2.jpg)
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: Matt Ottinger on January 07, 2015, 02:36:59 AM
A Secretary-General of the UN as a Bonus Puzzle?  U Thant be serious!
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: PYLdude on January 07, 2015, 03:40:43 AM
A Secretary-General of the UN as a Bonus Puzzle?  U Thant be serious!

Alright now. Stop.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Dag_Hammarskjöld.jpg/375px-Dag_Hammarskjöld.jpg)

Hammarskjöld.
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: Mr. Matté on January 07, 2015, 06:51:00 AM
A Secretary-General of the UN as a Bonus Puzzle?  U Thant be serious!

Alright now. Stop.
Hammarskjöld.

There is some precedent for UN Secretary Generals appearing as game show answers. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lamzydivey/2286099578/in/set-72157603882660726)
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: Fedya on January 07, 2015, 09:27:16 AM
In several of the Slavic languages, v and s/z (or the Cyrillic equivalents) are one-letter words.
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: Fedya on January 07, 2015, 09:29:46 AM
Before and After: Nothing Compares 2 U Thant.

[ducking]
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: Twentington on January 07, 2015, 09:47:51 AM
Of course, if the puzzle is something arcane and full of rarely-called letters like FUZZY EARMUFFS or JAZZ FESTIVAL, then ain't nothin' gonna help you.
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: PYLdude on January 07, 2015, 11:10:44 AM
A Secretary-General of the UN as a Bonus Puzzle?  U Thant be serious!

Alright now. Stop.
Hammarskjöld.

There is some precedent for UN Secretary Generals appearing as game show answers. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lamzydivey/2286099578/in/set-72157603882660726)

Sonofabitch. :)

Although I gotta figure there aren't too many other ways to go when that's the Audience Match. I couldn't think of another to fill that in.
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: SuperSweeper on January 07, 2015, 12:32:07 PM
A Secretary-General of the UN as a Bonus Puzzle?  U Thant be serious!

Alright now. Stop.
Hammarskjöld.

There is some precedent for UN Secretary Generals appearing as game show answers. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lamzydivey/2286099578/in/set-72157603882660726)

Sonofabitch. :)

Although I gotta figure there aren't too many other ways to go when that's the Audience Match. I couldn't think of another to fill that in.

-GER? 
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: TLEberle on January 07, 2015, 12:52:44 PM
Of course, if the puzzle is something arcane and full of rarely-called letters like FUZZY EARMUFFS or JAZZ FESTIVAL, then ain't nothin' gonna help you.
I disagree; players can help themselves by calling different letters, not falling into the trap of thinking that the point of the bonus round is to call letters that are in the puzzle, studying up on the kind of puzzle that Wheel of Fortune features in the bonus round, using the Used Letter Board, and thinking aloud, those things are all helpful.

It doesn't mean that the day's winner will solve the bonus puzzle every time (it wouldn't be an exciting end to the show if the same thing happened every day) but they'll help. Your second arcane example would start you out with jazz fESTivaL, which is a great head start. Pick letters from the bottom quartile of the frequency chart instead of C-D-M; it will reveal letters in those puzzles that are meant to be head-scratchers.
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: Matt Ottinger on January 07, 2015, 06:04:24 PM
Alright now. Stop.
Hammarskjöld.

I LOL'ed.
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: Matt Ottinger on January 07, 2015, 06:09:48 PM
There is some precedent for UN Secretary Generals appearing as game show answers. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lamzydivey/2286099578/in/set-72157603882660726)

While that is a nifty, nifty find, we can also safely assume (and prove, if we were of that mind, by searching the Archive) that Jeopardy! has mined this particular subject multiple times.

/Even more OBGameShow: My first awareness of the name Dag Hammarskjold was because some game show -- and I want to say it was early Pyramid -- invited viewers to write to their offices at Dag Hammarskjold Plaza.
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: clemon79 on January 07, 2015, 06:40:33 PM
I LOL'ed.

(http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/compositions/2378023/views/1,width=280,height=280,appearanceId=1.png/halt-hammerzeit-shirt_design.png)
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: Footix on January 09, 2015, 12:12:01 AM
Although I gotta figure there aren't too many other ways to go when that's the Audience Match. I couldn't think of another to fill that in.

-GER?

Dag, Yo!
Title: Re: WOF Bonus Puzzle Analysis
Post by: irwinsjournal.com on January 11, 2015, 10:00:04 PM
Before and After: Nothing Compares 2 U Thant.

[ducking]

And I LOL'd at that one.