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The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Mr. Brown on December 06, 2021, 10:11:07 PM

Title: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: Mr. Brown on December 06, 2021, 10:11:07 PM
The wife and I are watching MGHSH tonight and a thought came across my mind: why didn't they just have Gene host the whole damn thing? Contractual reasons? Creative control? Just 'cuz? Something else?

My non-game show fan wife NEEDS TO KNOW.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: Adam Nedeff on December 06, 2021, 10:35:52 PM
That was an NBC thing. Goodson and company wanted Gene to host the entire hour, but NBC was adamant that the show have two hosts. (https://www.amazon.com/Matchless-Gene-Rayburn-Adam-Nedeff-ebook/dp/B017H0T8S0/ref=sr_1_1?crid=BCA6FRSNC9X&keywords=the+matchless+gene+rayburn&qid=1638848108&sprefix=matchless+ge%2Caps%2C189&sr=8-1)
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: SuperMatch93 on December 07, 2021, 06:54:30 AM
That was an NBC thing. Goodson and company wanted Gene to host the entire hour, but NBC was adamant that the show have two hosts. (https://www.amazon.com/Matchless-Gene-Rayburn-Adam-Nedeff-ebook/dp/B017H0T8S0/ref=sr_1_1?crid=BCA6FRSNC9X&keywords=the+matchless+gene+rayburn&qid=1638848108&sprefix=matchless+ge%2Caps%2C189&sr=8-1)

And, if I'm not mistaken, someone at NBC really liked Bauman and insisted he host the second half.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: JMFabiano on December 07, 2021, 11:57:23 AM
That was an NBC thing. Goodson and company wanted Gene to host the entire hour, but NBC was adamant that the show have two hosts. (https://www.amazon.com/Matchless-Gene-Rayburn-Adam-Nedeff-ebook/dp/B017H0T8S0/ref=sr_1_1?crid=BCA6FRSNC9X&keywords=the+matchless+gene+rayburn&qid=1638848108&sprefix=matchless+ge%2Caps%2C189&sr=8-1)

And, if I'm not mistaken, someone at NBC really liked Bauman and insisted he host the second half.

I'd also imagine that it meant not having to book one extra celebrity, if you had the host not in play on the panel for each respective half.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: Jeremy Nelson on December 07, 2021, 02:19:38 PM
I'd also imagine that it meant not having to book one extra celebrity, if you had the host not in play on the panel for each respective half.
I'm guessing that the host's salary is considerably larger than the fee they pay that extra celebrity.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: Mr. Matté on December 07, 2021, 03:06:06 PM
I'd also imagine that it meant not having to book one extra celebrity, if you had the host not in play on the panel for each respective half.
I'm guessing that the host's salary is considerably larger than the fee they pay that extra celebrity.

But if it means that they didn't have to reach out to Mr. Smith himself to be a celeb, it made it much easier for the booker.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: clemon79 on December 07, 2021, 04:39:30 PM
But if it means that they didn't have to reach out to Mr. Smith himself to be a celeb, it made it much easier for the booker.

You're silly. Clearly they would talk to Mr. Smith's agent.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: Adam Nedeff on December 07, 2021, 05:42:58 PM
I'd also imagine that it meant not having to book one extra celebrity, if you had the host not in play on the panel for each respective half.
I'm guessing that the host's salary is considerably larger than the fee they pay that extra celebrity.

But if it means that they didn't have to reach out to Mr. Smith himself to be a celeb, it made it much easier for the booker.
And this is ended up being a particularly valuable consideration. I've talked to one staffer who recalled that MG/HS had awful luck with celebrities dropping out day before or day of.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: JohnXXVII on December 08, 2021, 02:13:02 AM
The best case scenario for this show would have been for Gene to host the whole thing himself.

Jon Bauman just does not seem like a professional Goodson-Todman host. I especially cringe each time Hollywood Squares ends and he attempts to recap the game and analyze where the losing contestant went wrong. It's just awkward and not entertaining; I'm surprised no one told him to stop that!
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: steveleb on December 09, 2021, 06:20:21 AM
Sounds like we all have the same Intel.  I know from dealing with Jon personally he was indeed seen as a budding young star and he ingratiated himself with many of them by personally lobbying for opportunities. Pop and Rocker Game was very well received even though it failed to get a large audience.  By piggybacking him onto an established format and a proven pro it was seen as a way to minimize his downside. One shudders to think who we’d get today.  I mean Alec Baldwin and Liza Koshy come to mind…
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: JohnXXVII on December 10, 2021, 01:05:49 AM
Watching MG/HS Hour, you wonder if Jon had ever watched an episode of the Match Game or Hollywood Squares before, or ever realized what made those shows successful. These are supposed to be funny games. And the sort of humor was not the rather tame wordplay and puns that Jon tries to do on every single episode.

If they had to have two hosts for this show, the least they could have done was find someone who had a similar sense of humor to Gene's, to at least make the show flow a little better tone-wise.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: SuperMatch93 on December 10, 2021, 06:52:19 AM
Sounds like we all have the same Intel.  I know from dealing with Jon personally he was indeed seen as a budding young star and he ingratiated himself with many of them by personally lobbying for opportunities. Pop and Rocker Game was very well received even though it failed to get a large audience.  By piggybacking him onto an established format and a proven pro it was seen as a way to minimize his downside. One shudders to think who we’d get today.  I mean Alec Baldwin and Liza Koshy come to mind…

I'd like to see Liza Koshy get another game show. Maybe not MG or HS but I could see her hosting something loose and laid back like Whose Line.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: carlisle96 on December 10, 2021, 02:08:28 PM
The best case scenario for this show would have been for Gene to host the whole thing himself.

Jon Bauman just does not seem like a professional Goodson-Todman host. I especially cringe each time Hollywood Squares ends and he attempts to recap the game and analyze where the losing contestant went wrong. It's just awkward and not entertaining; I'm surprised no one told him to stop that!
I didn't think he was that bad even if he wasn't really needed. But I've heard he's a hell of a nice guy offscreen.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: BrandonFG on December 10, 2021, 02:30:07 PM
I've said this before, but I think it's a little unfair to bash Jon for two reasons:

1. It was one of his first hosting jobs (dunno whether this or Pop N Rocker started taping first), and

2. As of 1983 Peter Marshall was the show's only other host, on a show that just went off the air two years prior. Tom Bergeron and John Davidson prolly would've had just as much trouble filling those shoes. He was a mismatch alongside Gene Rayburn, and was given a weak format.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: Sodboy13 on December 10, 2021, 08:48:00 PM
Watching MG/HS Hour, you wonder if Jon had ever watched an episode of the Match Game or Hollywood Squares before, or ever realized what made those shows successful. These are supposed to be funny games. And the sort of humor was not the rather tame wordplay and puns that Jon tries to do on every single episode.

I think this overlooks the bigger question, which is if Mark Goodson ever watched an episode of Hollywood Squares, or understood what made that show successful.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: Strikerz04 on December 10, 2021, 11:14:24 PM
Jon wasn't bad, but could he have fared with a better format or different show?
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: Stackertosh on December 11, 2021, 01:11:50 PM
The Match Game segment was fine but I always thought the Hollywood Squares segment was too serious. The old version had the stars give silly answers and they seemed to have a good time.



Jon was too stiff and awkward on Hollywood squares. You had Hollywood Squares but sucked all the fun out of it. Thats how i looked at it.

Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: Neumms on December 11, 2021, 02:03:41 PM
As bad as he was talking strategy on Hollywood Squares, he was worse at playing Match Game. You don’t want him leaving right after he’s announced, but Match Game would have been improved by his absence.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: JMFabiano on December 13, 2021, 11:51:37 AM
Watching MG/HS Hour, you wonder if Jon had ever watched an episode of the Match Game or Hollywood Squares before, or ever realized what made those shows successful. These are supposed to be funny games. And the sort of humor was not the rather tame wordplay and puns that Jon tries to do on every single episode.

I think this overlooks the bigger question, which is if Mark Goodson ever watched an episode of Hollywood Squares, or understood what made that show successful.

He probably did.  It just wasn't his idea of what makes a game show successful.

Someone also mentioned this HS being more serious than the standalone versions. (and according to Bauman himself, "more honest")  Based on how Goodson felt about Match Game sometimes, that's no surprise too.  He gave the same treatment to MG when it came back 6 years later, as a matter of fact (playing for cash, Match-Up! rounds...) 

Forget watching a MG episode, of course Bauman was on several in the late '70s.  Like his hosting, I can go back and forth on how much I like him as a MG panelist too.  When he was on, he was on.  When he wasn't...meh...

Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: JasonA1 on December 13, 2021, 02:01:24 PM
I think this overlooks the bigger question, which is if Mark Goodson ever watched an episode of Hollywood Squares, or understood what made that show successful.

He probably did.  It just wasn't his idea of what makes a game show successful.

Someone also mentioned this HS being more serious than the standalone versions. (and according to Bauman himself, "more honest")  Based on how Goodson felt about Match Game sometimes, that's no surprise too.  He gave the same treatment to MG when it came back 6 years later, as a matter of fact (playing for cash, Match-Up! rounds...)

I think you're well-traveled enough to remember Match Game '90 started with more of what worked in the '70s - three rounds of questioning, played for points, in each of the pilots. It was an ABC focus group that dialed that version in to playing for cash with a Match-Up round.

-Jason
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: TimK2003 on December 13, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
I know it never happened, but I wonder what contingency plan (if any) did Goodson have if either Bauman or Rayburn would not be able to make it to a taping due to an illness, emergency, etc...   I would think after Ludden's illness issues on P+, Goodson would have some sort of Plan B in place if something like that happened again.

Would the other host run both games and either have Goodson or one extra celeb fill the lower left seat for the whole hour?
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: JMFabiano on December 14, 2021, 11:28:10 AM
I think this overlooks the bigger question, which is if Mark Goodson ever watched an episode of Hollywood Squares, or understood what made that show successful.

He probably did.  It just wasn't his idea of what makes a game show successful.

Someone also mentioned this HS being more serious than the standalone versions. (and according to Bauman himself, "more honest")  Based on how Goodson felt about Match Game sometimes, that's no surprise too.  He gave the same treatment to MG when it came back 6 years later, as a matter of fact (playing for cash, Match-Up! rounds...)

I think you're well-traveled enough to remember Match Game '90 started with more of what worked in the '70s - three rounds of questioning, played for points, in each of the pilots. It was an ABC focus group that dialed that version in to playing for cash with a Match-Up round.

-Jason

Well haven't done as much traveling lately, but...sure. 
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: Neumms on December 15, 2021, 05:00:31 PM
It was an ABC focus group that dialed that version in to playing for cash with a Match-Up round.


The focus group said to have a dumb multiple choice round?
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: JasonA1 on December 15, 2021, 07:24:47 PM
It was an ABC focus group that dialed that version in to playing for cash with a Match-Up round.
The focus group said to have a dumb multiple choice round?

The focus group responded positively to the Super Match.

-Jason
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: TLEberle on December 15, 2021, 09:15:20 PM
I think cutting the first Match-up round would have opened up the runtime to allow for a bit more in the way of shenanigans, but lord knows they can’t have that.

I wonder what was the impetus for bumping the Audience Match runner -up awards to 200 and 300.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: Sodboy13 on December 15, 2021, 10:32:42 PM
I think cutting the first Match-up round would have opened up the runtime to allow for a bit more in the way of shenanigans, but lord knows they can’t have that.

I wonder what was the impetus for bumping the Audience Match runner -up awards to 200 and 300.

Bob Boden's Canadian Match Game, which was very 1990 in its format, went with two standards rounds and Match-Up as the main game finisher. I thought that worked better.

I am of the mind that Match-Up, if you feel compelled to incorporate it, would make a good replacement for the Audience Match. Pick your star, go $100 per match for :30 or :45, and then the fates of the Star Wheel decide your partner for the big money.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: JasonA1 on December 15, 2021, 11:02:43 PM
I wonder what was the impetus for bumping the Audience Match runner -up awards to 200 and 300.

My hunch: the new amounts made it so a spin of a Double always did you better than winning 10x of the prize just above it.

-Jason
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: Jimmy Owen on December 16, 2021, 12:35:13 AM
Match-Up. Always pick A and hope the celeb catches on.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: vtown7 on December 16, 2021, 05:55:35 AM
Match-Up. Always pick A and hope the celeb catches on.

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly (it's really early for me as I type this) but I thought I had heard that the order that the celeb heard wasn't always the order the contestant had on the screen (ie. their order was continually shuffling).  Can anyone confirm this?
Ryan.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: nowhammies10 on December 16, 2021, 10:07:33 AM
Bob Boden's Canadian Match Game, which was very 1990 in its format, went with two standards rounds and Match-Up as the main game finisher. I thought that worked better.

I think that format was borrowed (along with the S1 set and filming location) from Atomes Crochus, the French-language version of MG filmed in Montréal. They bumped up the cash amounts for S2 when they moved to Toronto.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: Sodboy13 on December 16, 2021, 10:28:00 AM
Match-Up. Always pick A and hope the celeb catches on.

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly (it's really early for me as I type this) but I thought I had heard that the order that the celeb heard wasn't always the order the contestant had on the screen (ie. their order was continually shuffling).  Can anyone confirm this?
Ryan.
This is also what I've heard over the years, though I can't point to a solid confirmation of it offhand.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: Neumms on December 16, 2021, 12:18:10 PM
I wonder what was the impetus for bumping the Audience Match runner -up awards to 200 and 300.

If the player got skunked, did they give them $100 so they could play the Head-to-Head?
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: TLEberle on December 16, 2021, 01:20:23 PM
No. The wheel would start with $500 or $1,000 as a base value.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: parliboy on December 16, 2021, 01:43:32 PM
If the player got skunked, did they give them $100 so they could play the Head-to-Head?

https://youtu.be/XGCo8oveo2E?t=1065
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: JasonA1 on December 16, 2021, 03:06:04 PM
Match-Up. Always pick A and hope the celeb catches on.
Maybe I'm not remembering correctly (it's really early for me as I type this) but I thought I had heard that the order that the celeb heard wasn't always the order the contestant had on the screen (ie. their order was continually shuffling).

The Match Game '90 bible said the order was "sometimes" shuffled for the contestant. (It also said the choices weren't displayed until Ross finished the question, which helped explain the pacing of that round.) It was suggested here a contestant could still pick the choice that was alphabetically first, and game the system, but the chances of that becoming a known/repeated behavior would be slim IMO.

-Jason
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: PYLdude on December 16, 2021, 08:21:22 PM
I wonder what was the impetus for bumping the Audience Match runner -up awards to 200 and 300.

My hunch: the new amounts made it so a spin of a Double always did you better than winning 10x of the prize just above it.

-Jason

Makes sense; numbers are random, sure, but all the same with the lucky spin you could win up to six large as opposed to a straight five large without it.

MG90 was my first exposure to Match Game, and I quite enjoyed it. I still quite enjoy it. And I have no issue with it being played for cash. Don’t get me wrong, I think the race to 6 format works as well, but call me crazy, I always felt that the idea of each match having payoffs and each panel member playing in both rounds was better for the gameplay.

Far as Match-Up went, I have said I liked it as a new little wrinkle in the game and I still feel that way. And having it as the thing that decides the game as opposed to the luck of the draw that the question choice was makes things a little more interesting. I don’t know if you really need to have two, considering how short the first one is, but it’s something that I would enjoy seeing if it was brought back to the show in some form.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: Otm Shank on December 17, 2021, 02:47:53 AM
Sorry to now add a tangent to a tangent, but in that episode linked above, they had a midweek replacement celebrity for some reason. And since the intro is preproduced, they announced the original celebrity and not the replacement. EDIT: Ah, nevermind. She was in character.

Then, there was a slight edit on the second question of the first round where the celebrity's card was already revealed (apparently something-not-for-daytime was said in the buildup).

Then in the round 2 matches, probably the then-record-setting triple "OOPS!" I watched a lot of this version since my schedule allowed, and I only remember seeing a censored answer once.

Not to mention the fact that they should have thrown out the H2H match, on account of a homophone. Ross never spelled out the word so that it was unambiguous.

And there was a dog on the set? This was definitely a weird one.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: aaron sica on December 17, 2021, 07:03:40 AM
MG90 was my first exposure to Match Game, and I quite enjoyed it. I still quite enjoy it

Same, although with both ABC stations we had electing to have news at noon and not bothering to reschedule/cast off to another station, viewing of it was far and few. How I wish I would have saved it, but I had someone fill a tape with the first 6 episodes (original airing w/ commercials). Some very generous soul has uploaded practically the entire run to YouTube; it's on my to-do list to binge.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: Bryce L. on December 17, 2021, 12:52:43 PM
MG90 was my first exposure to Match Game, and I quite enjoyed it. I still quite enjoy it

Same, although with both ABC stations we had electing to have news at noon and not bothering to reschedule/cast off to another station, viewing of it was far and few. How I wish I would have saved it, but I had someone fill a tape with the first 6 episodes (original airing w/ commercials). Some very generous soul has uploaded practically the entire run to YouTube; it's on my to-do list to binge.
I'm amazed said soul hasn't gotten C&D'd; he's got every circulating episode of the 1973-1982 era, and is filling out MGHS now.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: wdm1219inpenna on December 18, 2021, 10:33:14 PM
Watching MG/HS Hour, you wonder if Jon had ever watched an episode of the Match Game or Hollywood Squares before, or ever realized what made those shows successful. These are supposed to be funny games. And the sort of humor was not the rather tame wordplay and puns that Jon tries to do on every single episode.

If they had to have two hosts for this show, the least they could have done was find someone who had a similar sense of humor to Gene's, to at least make the show flow a little better tone-wise.


I don't know if Jon ever watched a Match Game episode, but he did appear as a panelist as "Bowzer".  In fact Buzzr had an episode of Match Game just today with him occupying the first seat on the upper tier.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: GameShowGuru on January 02, 2022, 03:43:08 PM
The best case scenario for this show would have been for Gene to host the whole thing himself.

Jon Bauman just does not seem like a professional Goodson-Todman host. I especially cringe each time Hollywood Squares ends and he attempts to recap the game and analyze where the losing contestant went wrong. It's just awkward and not entertaining; I'm surprised no one told him to stop that!

Funny you said that, because according to Gene, after each taping (or at least after each taping day), he was debriefed by the producers and told what he did right and (more often) what he did wrong.  I guess his game recap and over-analysis of the contestants' wrong answers was glossed over.
Title: Re: Match Game-Hollywood Squares - Why two hosts?
Post by: whewfan on January 04, 2022, 04:09:09 AM
I can imagine him getting hosting tips for maybe a few weeks worth of shows, but you have to figure after a while, there was little they could do to make him any better. I do think Jon made more efforts to move the game along, but some celebs just didn't know how long to "vamp" before sounding like they're just wasting time. The original HS gave each star 45 seconds and no more. Jonathan Winters was maybe one exception, as it takes him a while to warm up as a character, and his ramblings are hit and miss. Peter just figured they could edit him however they please.