The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Neumms on January 25, 2024, 03:44:23 PM
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I'll be visiting NYC for fun next month and wonder two things: Does anyone have any picks to ask for at the Paley Center? (I'm hoping for a Jack Kelly $ale of the Century.) And are any game shows taping in New York around now?
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Dunno if it’s taping right now but Generation Gap is now in New York.
EDIT: These episodes might still be on Youtube, but there's also a few shows from the Andy Warhol Collection. Money Maze, High Rollers, and I wanna say Gambit.
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Does anyone have any picks to ask for at the Paley Center? (I'm hoping for a Jack Kelly $ale of the Century.)
They don't have any Sale, but they have two Clayton eps of Concentration; one of them is a CoC final!
Other stuff I saw there is an hour-long Marshall Squares, a Woolery Wheel ep that isn't circulating, an episode of What's My Line from 1950 that isn't on YouTube, and a contestant's five day Jeopardy run from 1972. Also, if you're interested, there's a Magnificent Marble Machine episode that isn't circulating; it hasn't been digitized, so you'll need to ask for it at the desk (the catalog lists it as "Marble Machine") and play it on one of their VTRs at the back.
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I second checking out the Money Maze episode that they have. It was a fun watch.
The first thing I went for on my first visit way back when was the episode of the NBC version of Jackpot that immediately precedes the one on the trading circuit (Maybe you could remind me what happened). They've also got one episode of the Arte Johnson-hosted Knockout too.
I watched the pilot for You're Putting Me On on one visit. I think they had to pull a tape for that one (Should mention it was at the now-closed Beverly Hills location. Not sure what the availability is like for the non-digitized shows in New York). One of the curators was kind enough, when he knew I came to see game shows, to pull me tapes of Say When and Mike Stokey's Pantomime Quiz.
I think the simplest thing to do would be to head to the Archive (https://www.paleycenter.org/collection-2) and see what you can find that they have.
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This was something like 15 years ago when I went, but it didn't seem to me that they had very much in terms of shows that don't have at least one other episode on YouTube. IIRC, I saw a 1950s Name That Tune, an episode of Gambit, and what I think was NBC's first episode of G.E. College Bowl. (I saw a fourth show, but I can't remember what it was - at the time, each person was limited to 2 hours' worth of shows.)
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There is a one hour talk that Mark Goodson gave about the development of Family Feud. Not the most riveting TV but it's interesting.
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at the time, each person was limited to 2 hours' worth of shows.
I don't see this written anywhere on the website, so maybe things have changed I suppose something of the sort was in effect at the time I visited, but since I mentioned I had come from outside the country, I ended up getting to stay the entire afternoon. It probably helped that they were not so busy that every viewing terminal was taken or there were people waiting to get in, but if you're coming from a distance, you might as well mention it in case they try to shoo you out.
I mean, if they really want people to patronize them (and if in-person visits are still going to be the only way to view digitally-stored materials)… I can see limiting the locals since it's easier for them to come back, but if you're making a long-distance trip and thought so highly of them that you plunked down twenty bucks to come see them, I think they should be happy to let a person such as you stick around if others aren't having to wait to enter.
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I second checking out the Money Maze episode that they have. It was a fun watch.
The first thing I went for on my first visit way back when was the episode of the NBC version of Jackpot that immediately precedes the one on the trading circuit (Maybe you could remind me what happened). They've also got one episode of the Arte Johnson-hosted Knockout too.
I watched the pilot for You're Putting Me On on one visit. I think they had to pull a tape for that one (Should mention it was at the now-closed Beverly Hills location. Not sure what the availability is like for the non-digitized shows in New York). One of the curators was kind enough, when he knew I came to see game shows, to pull me tapes of Say When and Mike Stokey's Pantomime Quiz.
I think the simplest thing to do would be to head to the Archive (https://www.paleycenter.org/collection-2) and see what you can find that they have.
I also saw You're Putting Me On, and that was another tape they had to pull.
The Jackpot episode had one of my favorite riddles (I'm paraphrasing, but you'll get the gist): What does a former mechanic do when he starts working again? He re-tires! The audience SCREAMED their disapproval and Geoff hid behind the bleachers. :D
The High Rollers they have precedes the one on YouTube; I think it's the day before.
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The Jackpot episode had one of my favorite riddles (I'm paraphrasing, but you'll get the gist): What does a former mechanic do when he starts working again? He re-tires! The audience SCREAMED their disapproval and Geoff hid behind the bleachers. :D
Brilliant.
Also, wasn't one of the Super Jackpots that day a pretty hefty sum? I seem to remember this being the case, but I don't recall what it was compared to the big one that was won the next day.
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The High Rollers they have precedes the one on YouTube; I think it's the day before.
Wait, it is? I haven't been to the Paley Center in more than 20 years but I distinctly remember the chandelier clocking Ruta in the head, which is the episode on Youtube.
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The High Rollers they have precedes the one on YouTube; I think it's the day before.
Wait, it is? I haven't been to the Paley Center in more than 20 years but I distinctly remember the chandelier clocking Ruta in the head, which is the episode on Youtube.
They must have two episodes then. I definitely saw one there that's not the July 4th one.
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Wait, it is? I haven't been to the Paley Center in more than 20 years but I distinctly remember the chandelier clocking Ruta in the head, which is the episode on Youtube.
The first show in the Paley index is 258, the episode with the Chandelier. There is a second show from the Andy Warhol collection in their index which AFAIK is from the first version as Ruta is credited, where Sand wins two games including a Big Numbers win, before being defeated by Mike. There is additionally another episode in existence, not listed in their index, #257, from the master, the show immediately preceding the chandelier drop.
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In terms of the Paley Center:
First, it should be noted that the catalog is available online (it wasn't when I was first going there around fifteen to twenty years ago)- it is probably a good idea to check this ahead of time, as under current circumstances they tend to include time reading the catalog with your scheduled time (they didn't when it was viewing tapes in the back room):
https://www.paleycenter.org/collection-2/
In terms of some stuff that may be of interest in the television game show realm:
As mentioned before, there are several episodes of game shows from around 1975 that exist in off-air recordings by Andy Warhol (apparently with a project in mind, though I haven't seen more precise details of what this was meant to be), largely of programs for which these are among the few existing examples.
There's also a set of game show recordings from 1978 that came from the San Diego NBC affiliate as part of an example of a full broadcast day, should that sense of continuity be of interest.
One of the episodes of Pantomime Quiz (https://www.paleycenter.org/collection/item/?q=&p=1&item=T82:0115) has interest, as, based on a couple of internal clues, I think it could be an episode before any of the national runs.
This episode of Information Please (https://www.paleycenter.org/collection/item/?q=&p=1&item=B:27159) has intrigue- it doesn't correspond to anything that appears in any standard listing (it doesn't seem like it could be a pilot for the brief television run, and clearly isn't one of the 1940s short subjects), and I don't think we've ever figured out its origins.
This program has interest, for those curious as for what a local game show could do in the 1980s (https://www.paleycenter.org/collection/item/?q=&p=1&item=T87:0264)
There are also multiple unsold pilots that aren't in circulation (to the best of my knowledge, at least) present- anyone for Robert Q. Lewis with contestants playing something that resembles mahjong? (https://www.paleycenter.org/collection/item/?q=&p=1&item=B:52323)
The one warning I have- it has been a substantial time since I've been in the Paley Center (my last visit was to the defunct branch, and that's four-and-a-half years ago now), so I have nothing to say about their current practices.
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There is a second show from the Andy Warhol collection in their index which AFAIK is from the first version as Ruta is credited, where Sand wins two games including a Big Numbers win, before being defeated by Mike. There is additionally another episode in existence, not listed in their index, #257, from the master, the show immediately preceding the chandelier drop.
Those two aren't the same episode? For some reason I had the impression that the one with the Big Numbers win was 7/3/75.
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There are also multiple unsold pilots that aren't in circulation (to the best of my knowledge, at least) present- anyone for Robert Q. Lewis with contestants playing something that resembles mahjong? (https://www.paleycenter.org/collection/item/?q=&p=1&item=B:52323)
Is that year correct? Hard to believe something from 1956 would exist in color.
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Those two aren't the same episode? For some reason I had the impression that the one with the Big Numbers win was 7/3/75.
The Warhol episode has original commercials and is an off-air broadcast described above. Reading from notes: 257 is a master, Judy wins the big numbers, then plays NFL player Ray Wersching (seen in 258) as a regular contestant (he was on the Chargers at the time, and Ruta says on AIR she knows the owner, so I'm kinda shocked play continued tbh.) And no, it's not for charity. Judy loses, Ray doesn't win the Big Numbers, then starts the game vs. Pat that resumes on 258 after Ruta's hit to the head.
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There are also multiple unsold pilots that aren't in circulation (to the best of my knowledge, at least) present- anyone for Robert Q. Lewis with contestants playing something that resembles mahjong? (https://www.paleycenter.org/collection/item/?q=&p=1&item=B:52323)
Is that year correct? Hard to believe something from 1956 would exist in color.
The year is right, according to a couple of items in contemporary newspapers. Specifically, it was planned for a summer run in 1956.
It's the "color" part that's probably wrong. It's historically possible for it to be a color videotape, but that would make it the oldest color videotape in existence, period, and you'd think that somebody at Paley would have noticed that by now. I guess it could also be a color film, but that seems prohibitively expensive for a game show pilot.
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There are also multiple unsold pilots that aren't in circulation (to the best of my knowledge, at least) present- anyone for Robert Q. Lewis with contestants playing something that resembles mahjong? (https://www.paleycenter.org/collection/item/?q=&p=1&item=B:52323)
Is that year correct? Hard to believe something from 1956 would exist in color.
The year is right, according to a couple of items in contemporary newspapers. Specifically, it was planned for a summer run in 1956.
It's the "color" part that's probably wrong. It's historically possible for it to be a color videotape, but that would make it the oldest color videotape in existence, period, and you'd think that somebody at Paley would have noticed that by now. I guess it could also be a color film, but that seems prohibitively expensive for a game show pilot.
There were no commercially-available color videotape machines in 1956... Ampex debuted the first B&W recorders in that year.
There are very rare color kinescopes from the mid-50s, but even those were considered to be an extravagance at that time.
- Kevin
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There are also multiple unsold pilots that aren't in circulation (to the best of my knowledge, at least) present- anyone for Robert Q. Lewis with contestants playing something that resembles mahjong? (https://www.paleycenter.org/collection/item/?q=&p=1&item=B:52323)
Is that year correct? Hard to believe something from 1956 would exist in color.
Having seen it, the listing is in error (as quite a few are on this point)- it's a black-and-white kinescope.
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There is a second show from the Andy Warhol collection in their index which AFAIK is from the first version as Ruta is credited, where Sand wins two games including a Big Numbers win, before being defeated by Mike. There is additionally another episode in existence, not listed in their index, #257, from the master, the show immediately preceding the chandelier drop.
Those two aren't the same episode? For some reason I had the impression that the one with the Big Numbers win was 7/3/75.
Yes, the big numbers win happened on the 7/3 show.
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Among other things already mentioned, I can recommend a 1969 Match Game in color that Paley has in their holdings. Tony Randall and Peggy Cass are the guests.
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In terms of the Paley Center:
First, it should be noted that the catalog is available online (it wasn't when I was first going there around fifteen to twenty years ago)- it is probably a good idea to check this ahead of time, as under current circumstances they tend to include time reading the catalog with your scheduled time (they didn't when it was viewing tapes in the back room):
https://www.paleycenter.org/collection-2/
Nice to know. They do list one Gambit and one G.E. College Bowl; not sure if that was the Gambit I saw there, but that was definitely the College Bowl, as I remember UC-Santa Barbara being one of the teams.
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Brenda Burrati was one of the nicest and smartest local programmers I ever tried to sell to. She relished this unique opportunity to round out triple access where she was asked to develop a show to complement Jeopardy. At one point I was asked to review it for National syndication. I thought it ran circles around a lot else we saw. Eventually the powers that were chose a more comedic show that never went forward, but I for one would have loved to see it in tandem with Pyramid on one of the RKO stations
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I went in 2007, back when they were only allowing you to see an hour's worth of programming, and saw the aforementioned High Rollers from the Warhol collection, which I can confirm is definitely different from the two July shows that are around. I also got to watch the Celebrity Sweepstakes episode from the Warhol collection. I still have the request ticket they printed out for me somewhere in one of my boxes of stuff...
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Hard to believe something from 1956 would exist in color.
It could be that the live broadcast was in color but the archival kinescope recording is in B&W and it is catalogued as being "in color", viz.:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKSNTEZAJ-c
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Thanks very much everybody. I was last there in the early 00s and I felt like the kid on Santa’s lap who forgot his list. I did watch the Marble Machine from Warhol and Herb Stempel’s loss to Chuck Van Doren.
I’m excited for the color Match Game and the pre-conking Ruta Lee. Can anybody think of more pilots worth checking out?
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It could be that the live broadcast was in color but the archival kinescope recording is in B&W and it is catalogued as being "in color"...
It wouldn't make any sense for a library to (intentionally) catalog their holdings that way. (That would be like a library cataloging a modern-day CD-format reissue of a 1950s album as "vinyl LP.")
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There are also multiple unsold pilots that aren't in circulation (to the best of my knowledge, at least) present- anyone for Robert Q. Lewis with contestants playing something that resembles mahjong? (https://www.paleycenter.org/collection/item/?q=&p=1&item=B:52323)
Is that year correct? Hard to believe something from 1956 would exist in color.
Having seen it, the listing is in error (as quite a few are on this point)- it's a black-and-white kinescope.
And it's closer to playing poker.
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I was at the Museum yesterday because of the first ever public screening of the lost telecast of Super Bowl I. Afterwards, I went upstairs to the Library which was my first time there in over 20 years. I was amazed at how easy it is to watch something that's been digitized now since all you do is enter your search and bang right away you can watch it without waiting for them to provide tape like the old days (though some things like the one episode of "Magnificent Marble Machine" are still not digitized so I passed on waiting for that). I watched the Warhol "Moneymaze" recording (which clearly is before the episode available on YT since Nick Clooney mentions that they have gone to a new format of the couples remaining on stage during the game portion), the 3/15/78 "To Say The Least" and also the "Jackpot!" episode that is the day before the $38,750 one. I'm frankly surprised those two episodes couldn't have just been shown back to back at some point over the years on GSN as part of a Stewart salute. Seeing the episode immediately before helps provide more context for the lead-in to the big payoff show.
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I was at the Museum yesterday because of the first ever public screening of the lost telecast of Super Bowl I.
OK .... hoooooooooly crap! Can this be a post in the off-topic adventure? Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease!
If it was me, I would have to go back to the library another day, because there's no way an uncirculated Money Maze episode can deliver after that!
It's been about 25 years since I've been there to view the collection. I assumed it was all/mostly digital by now, but cool to read your post about it.
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I have obliged! :) It was a great experience. Sadly, we may never see it made available to the general public because of the NFL's obstinance.