The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: wdm1219inpenna on December 05, 2024, 12:17:53 PM
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Wayne Brady's current LMAD has been going strong since 2009 on a major TV network in daytime and I'm glad of it. I do watch it on rare occasion but will always prefer the 30 minute version, especially with 2 players vying for the Big Deal of the day.
The 1990/91 NBC daytime version with Bob Hilton and then later Monty Hall coming back only lasted the one year.
I know by the late 80s early 90s the game show television dynamic was starting to fizzle out, especially with the advent of the target audience being housewives dwindling down as more and more women were entering the workforce by then.
What I'm wondering is now, with so many other options, far more channels, streaming etc. why has the 2009 LMAD succeeded and lasted longer than any other version of the show? Certainly not due to more housewives watching. Is it because it can also be streamed now? DVR? Wayne is a far better host than Bob Hilton. Bob tried his best but it just was very bland to this viewer.
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It replaced a soap opera, which is costlier to produce. A standard episode might give away 50-75K in cash and prizes, give or take? That’s including the Big Deal, and taking into consideration prizes they got for a reduced price.
Helps that syndication is not the vast universe it used to be, with affiliates opting for expanded local news and talk shows.
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From I think Chelsea the new iteration of LMAD is doing well in daytime so not only is it less expensive to produce than a soap opera with the sets and props and actors, but it appears to be a one-two punch with TPIR, though other places it splits into different dayparts.
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From I think Chelsea the new iteration of LMAD is doing well in daytime so not only is it less expensive to produce than a soap opera with the sets and props and actors, but it appears to be a one-two punch with TPIR, though other places it splits into different dayparts.
It's not a consistent hit in every market but in the markets it does do well - it does exceptionally well. In Seattle clearing at 9AM it was routinely one of the most watched non-sports shows in any daypart on affiliates, usually just behind Price. I can't speak for other markets but I would be willing to put a couple of pennies on the line that many of it's stronger performing cities are the pre-Price time period.
It's an hour that's not news, that requires no previous investment in ongoing storylines, and that you can leave on in the background and dip back into pretty much any time and still have fun. Wayne Brady still has exceptionally high favorability numbers among Millennials and Gen X thanks to Whose Line and some of his other work.
The 1990-91 version also had the misfortune of running during the era when local stations would go all out for an even modestly rated syndicated show, since that meant around 8-9 minutes more of local ad revenue per half hour. (Ballparked number). A local break in a network show is usually either 1:05 or 1:35; clearing a syndicated show meant those stations got the vast majority (or all) of the ad placements. Consequently LMAD90 only cleared in 75% of households give or take; a few markets changed around either direction in September, and a couple came back when Monty did. Whereas today if LMADs total clearance isn't AT 100%, it's near it.
Virtually every market now takes every show, even if they don't always air at the same time in part because of syndication being dead outside of around ten shows, while clearance issues were something that dogged a number of daytime games of the late 70s until the near-death of daytime games in 1993-94. NBC daytime as a whole struggled in generally by the 90s. Monty himself is quoted in Adam Nedeff's book as saying "NBC couldn't get a rating in daytime no matter what they put on. If they staged World War III on NBC, it wouldn't get a rating." (In same, Ron Greenberg noted that the show aired at 2AM in LA and that "I don't know what kind of ratings they were expecting").
For what it's worth (again, Adam's book), NBC had been willing to go week to week with the show after mid-January 91 with a five week minimum, but Monty turned them down, noting that NBC was contractually obligated to offer them 26 weeks (which was not happening), that the production at Disney was costing them - and was keeping Monty stuck in Florida right as Monty himself had little interest in hosting an extended run.
/tangent: I know that with Dick Clark Productions' involvement it might have clearance or cross-ownership issues, but LMAD '90 is on my top ten of shows I wish Buzzr would run that they never have. I actually adore that version of the show, I think it's the best set the show ever had, the energy's great, Bob's underrated and had impossible shoes to fill, and it's something I'd love to see again in entirety.
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IMO, LMAD 90 was more enjoyable to watch (with either Bob or Monty) than Monty's ANLMAD a few years prior.
Like others said, Bob Hilton wasn't a GREAT host of the show, but if there would have been a traveling LMAD Live show around that time, he would have been seen as a Better host in that realm versus on TV.
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I'm allergic to 1990s game shows that use the pan flute prominently in their music packages.
(Legends of the Hidden Temple excepted)
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IMO, LMAD 90 was more enjoyable to watch (with either Bob or Monty) than Monty's ANLMAD a few years prior.
I had exactly the opposite experience, though I didn't get to see 84 in first run but did catch it on USA. I don't know how much of a dagger that was but even at age eight I knew that Monty was the Big Dealer and anyone else was going to compare unfavorably. I liked Deal '90 enough but didn't exactly mourn its cancellation as I saw it once or twice in Spokane and was never home when it came on in Seattle.,
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It replaced a soap opera, which is costlier to produce. A standard episode might give away 50-75K in cash and prizes, give or take?
I'd say lower than that. I pulled up the most recent episode in which the Big Deal was won, added up everything that was given away over the course of the hour, and it totaled $51,178. Considering that the Big Deal is won less than one-third of the time*, even when you factor in the occasional car win in the body of the show, I'd estimate that the show averages less than $50,000 in winnings per episode.
* You heard me correctly.
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Regarding "Not having Monty hurt LMAD90 at first", a pull-quote from Adam Nedeff's book from audience warmup guy (and future Nick Arcade host) Phil Moore. He states the obvious, but he was there:
“I was only hired to do the audience-warmup so I was never there for meetings or behind-the-scenes stuff. So if you ask me why Bob didn’t work out as host, I can only talk about it in terms of theory. I think Monty left too much of an imprint on that show in the years he hosted it, to the point that being a great host wasn’t enough. The audience just wasn’t ready to accept ANYBODY other than Monty in that role. Jump ahead to 2008 [sic] when they revive Let’s Make a Deal on CBS, I think that’s ultimately why they went with Wayne Brady, who is a great host.
Now, maybe there’s some guy out there named Steve Wyzanski that nobody’s ever heard of would make a better host than Wayne. Maybe Steve Wyzanski would be the best host that show’s ever seen. But he’d fail because Monty was so successful in that role that Let’s Make a Deal is to a point where you can’t have someone host it who isn’t a name somehow. And I feel bad for Bob if that’s the case, because he couldn’t control that. Today if Bob Hilton came along and wanted to be considered for something, he’d just have to start up a Youtube channel, post videos for a year, get 100,000 subscribers, and the networks would give him more of a shot”
One last note from Adam's book: Monty and co-producer Dick Clark had originally agreed to have Dick host the show, while it was being developed. Monty sent Dick some tapes of the show, and a couple of days after he got them Dick called Monty to turn down the job. Quote, "I can't do the show. I don't know how YOU did it, it's too tough for me." I somehow doubt with all of Dick's other commitments that a longterm set of commutes to Orlando would have worked out, especially as The Challengers got ready to launch, but in development there WAS a plan for a bigger name than Bob Hilton to host.
Maybe Dick would have been enough of a name (I generally think Phil Moore is 100% correct here) to get the audience to give him a chance. My gut instinct says that there is no combination of events where LMAD makes it past Fall 1991 no matter what it does. Truth died that year. Daytime Wheel died it's final death on NBC that year. Clearances for anything besides Days and Another World were in the dumps. They shut down production of Classic Concentration, only to bring back reruns, only to leave reruns going when they pulled the same numbers as first-run shows.
Even if Monty's the sole host, even if Dick Clark (a name) hosts the show - there probably isn't a timeline where LMAD goes past Summer 1991 at least on NBC.
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There were a few names tossed around for the 90-91 reboot...some big and some small.
Big? I know Marc Summers had more than a few talks at some time (I think for this version - not sure - but pretty sure)....
And small? Local Baton Rouge weatherman Pat Shingleton did some runthroughs with Monty. That source is....Pat.
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Dick Clark was a magnificent emcee without question, but I could never in a million years picture him hosting Let's Make A Deal, anymore than I could picture Monty hosting Pyramid. Interesting that Dick was being considered for it though, would have been wild to see how he would have fared.
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Considering that the Big Deal is won less than one-third of the time*
* You heard me correctly.
There's enough research on behaviors that it would not surprise me to find out that they can engineer a Big Deal loss/minor win based on how they set up the rest of the show. You could easily put Zonks behind certain curtains and cars behind others, or even put Zonks behind certain numbers in "Pick Em" games like Smash for Cash to condition people to see one door/number as good and another as bad.
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(In same, Ron Greenberg noted that the show aired at 2AM in LA and that "I don't know what kind of ratings they were expecting").
In case anyone's curious: at the time, KNBC was running "Donahue" at 9:00 A.M., so they carried NBC's 9:30 A.M. (Pacific) show during the non-programmed half-hour at 11:00, but put the 9:00 A.M. show on during the overnight hours.
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Chelsea’s spot on as usual. The whole reason CBS opened up that slot in the first place was to save money. Aside from a familiar title, LMAD under the Fremantle banner also brought along additional staffing efficiencies which allowed sone flexibility on the cost of Price. It’s fair to say this occurred while Price was in flux and there was a camp that saw ratings decline as a potential sign that it might not be a guaranteed hit with Drew as it was with Bob. That fact of life, more than anything else, is what secured Deal’s slot over Sony’s intense push for Pyramid. They couldn’t bring as many co-minglings to the table with Y and R given the firewalls that existed within the company between the Bells and the other producers.
Right now is perhaps Deal’s most vulnerable days yet. Wendy McMahon is obsessed with making streaming news into an even more cost-effective play, and her new boss was behind NBC’s scheduling of their content as a DAYS replacement. George Cheeks had bought into BEYOND THE GATES hook, line and sinker and is counting on minority ad spend to supplement the considerable production cost. It’s safe to say that given the upcoming administration and the climate it brings that’s no longer a sure thing. Do remember said administration isn’t a fan of CbS these days either.
These are big picture concerns to be sure but let’s just say the unilateral support DEAL once had has eroded, and next year will likely be quite interesting.
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It’s safe to say that given the upcoming administration and the climate it brings that’s no longer a sure thing. Do remember said administration isn’t a fan of CbS these days either.
These are big picture concerns to be sure but let’s just say the unilateral support DEAL once had has eroded, and next year will likely be quite interesting.
They're not a fan of NBC, MSNBC, ABC, CNN, or about a dozen other networks, either.
Serious question- let's just assume that CBS is the sole network in the new administration's crosshairs. In what way(s) could said administration do to make that network worse off, and in what ways does that trickle down to a show like LMAD?
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As far as the Washington administration goes, they can throw the skydance deal into question and make a bad financial situation even worse. That alone would impact just about every original program they produce.
I was actually referencing the sky dance administration. You have two execs effectively with competing agendas—Wendy with streaming news, George with diversity programming. Both are trying to gain support from Ellison and Shell. George worked for Shell at nbc but his gambit is far riskier. Remember this is the same creative team that has not gotten over the cancellation of Generations, which failed to get a significant Audience in far less splintered times. Regardless of how high minded or noble an effort that Gates may or may be, if it falls short of expectations it’s a black eye for George.
If it should somehow work, I strongly suspect there will be a desire to double down. If it does not and the cost effeciency of repurposed streaming news brings them closer to whole, it will support further expansion since the content is already being produced anyway.
Both of these scenarios could make an outside acquisition like Deal a luxury many in charge won’t value as some might hope
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It has always struck me that Bob Hilton's two best shots at hosting were replacing legends on two ridiculously hard shows to host, the other being The New T or C. His chances would have been far better with, say, Card Sharks or Press Your Luck.
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It’s safe to say that given the upcoming administration and the climate it brings that’s no longer a sure thing. Do remember said administration isn’t a fan of CbS these days either.
These are big picture concerns to be sure but let’s just say the unilateral support DEAL once had has eroded, and next year will likely be quite interesting.
They're not a fan of NBC, MSNBC, ABC, CNN, or about a dozen other networks, either.
Serious question- let's just assume that CBS is the sole network in the new administration's crosshairs. In what way(s) could said administration do to make that network worse off, and in what ways does that trickle down to a show like LMAD?
I'm worried about how it's going to affect a free press and free speech...not some scarcely-watched daytime TV game show
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As well you should be. But that said, when all is said and done, there's probably a better chance that LMAD is impacted than anything more significant.