The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Jeremy Nelson on January 14, 2025, 03:40:08 PM
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Obviously, there will be disagreements in any discussion forum, but let's see how divisive your takes are. I'll start.
1. Drew should stop doing the Spay and Neuter signoff. He's found his own cause telling people to take care of their mental health, and often times those two messages seem like too much of a mouthful. As a friend recently mentioned, the show is still doing a Pet Adoption Week, so there are ways to honor the positive parts of Bob's legacy without being beholden to a magic phrase that doesn't resonate with people anymore.
2. Jim Lange, with all due respect, was never the best available option for any game show he hosted.
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I have never found What's My Line anything other than boring. To be fair to the show, this is partially because I don't have any nostalgia for it (I was born in 1989).
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I know I may catch some flak for this but I never liked Card Sharks and always found Wheel of Fortune dull.
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The 80s versions of Dating/Newlywed Game >>> the OG versions, which are like watching paint dry.
The current TPiR theme sounds like a bad karaoke remake, and I’d rather they brought back the 94 nighttime theme, dated as it might sound.
John Davidson wasn’t as bad of a host as people make him out to be, although he might fall more into “Pretty Boy Traffic Cop” territory.
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1. Drew should stop doing the Spay and Neuter signoff. He's found his own cause telling people to take care of their mental health, and often times those two messages seem like too much of a mouthful.
I've thought this myself. The mental health message is clearly more from his heart, and the end of the show doesn't need two PSAs. It made sense for him to do the spay/neuter plug when he first took over the show, the media would have spun it as an insult to Barker if he stopped doing it while Barker was still alive, and it would have been bad optics for him to have dropped it immediately after Barker died. But when season 54 debuts this fall, it will have been two years since Barker's passing... I think we're approaching the time Drew can retire the daily spay/neuter message.
This isn't exactly a hot take, but while I don't hate it, I can only muster up indifference for the Super Password theme -- I don't understand why some people seem to love it so much. Is it just nostalgia? For example, the Press Your Luck theme gives me warm fuzzies because it's strongly associated with fond childhood memories, but if it weren't for that context, I would have no feelings for the tune. Is the same thing going on with Super Password?
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Johnny Olson isn't my favorite announcer. He isn't even my favorite announcer named Johnny.
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1. Drew should stop doing the Spay and Neuter signoff. He's found his own cause telling people to take care of their mental health, and often times those two messages seem like too much of a mouthful.
I've thought this myself. The mental health message is clearly more from his heart, and the end of the show doesn't need two PSAs. It made sense for him to do the spay/neuter plug when he first took over the show, the media would have spun it as an insult to Barker if he stopped doing it while Barker was still alive, and it would have been bad optics for him to have dropped it immediately after Barker died. But when season 54 debuts this fall, it will have been two years since Barker's passing... I think we're approaching the time Drew can retire the daily spay/neuter message.
Here's a "Which Came First?" Question from. The Barker Era:
• The Spay & Neuter sign-off, or
• The Adopt A Dog or Cat From Your Local Shelter segment that was occasionally featured during an IUFB?
Obviously Drew, to my knowledge, has never featured shelter pets in his era, but since Barker started it all, I think the overall awareness of pet population and adoption is commonplace now compared to 40-some years ago. Mental Health Awareness (in its various forms) needs to be more in the spotlight than pets, IMHO. Let Drew be the ambassador for that cause.
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Here's a "Which Came First?" Question from. The Barker Era:
• The Spay & Neuter sign-off, or
• The Adopt A Dog or Cat From Your Local Shelter segment that was occasionally featured during an IUFB?
I'm nearly certain the sign-off came first. I haven't seen any episodes on the Barker Era channel that feature a doggie during an IUFB.
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Johnny Olson isn't my favorite announcer. He isn't even my favorite announcer named Johnny.
Yeah........I prefer Gilbert, but then again I am a loyal J! viewer.
As for me:
-"Talk About" is way up there in my list of favorite shows.
-(somewhat relevant to another active thread) I prefer "Super Password" over "Plus", and I do like what Bert brought to the table......even when he blew words/puzzles.
-I prefer Don Morrow as "Sale of the Century" announcer over Jay Stewart.
-Piggybacking off of DoItRockapella, I've never taken too much interest in *the original* WML?. Bruner/Blyden, yes.
-On that note, I have a slight fondness for the 1972 IGAS, preferring it over the original (though I'd take original IGAS over original WML? any day).
-Aww heck, I also prefer Moore/Garagiola TTTT, and even the 1990 series, over Collyer. Even the Ward version is likely to pique my interest as well.
-I liked TPIR a lot when I was little. Not so much nowadays. (*not* Drew's fault; heck, I barely watch The Barker Era streaming channel)
-I was excited for "Classic Concentration" to make it onto Buzzr, but I haven't watched it as much as I should. (though I was glued to the Narz eps, as well as "Talk About" and "Whew!")
-....and piggybacking from the above, Jack Narz should've gotten a lot more work.
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Plinko is overrated and overplayed only because basically every single person who enters the studio wants to play it.
I would not be against playing it for $100K and only 7 times a year.
I have never found What's My Line anything other than boring. To be fair to the show, this is partially because I don't have any nostalgia for it (I was born in 1989).
I actually prefer What's My Line over To Tell The Truth.
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-I liked TPIR a lot when I was little. Not so much nowadays. (*not* Drew's fault; heck, I barely watch The Barker Era streaming channel)
This is me with MG and to an extent Feud. I think it's because we haven't been able to escape those three shows in the last 50 years; for the most part they've always existed in new episodes or reruns over the past few decades. Outside of maybe a fur coat TPiR you don't have too many rare episodes that pop up in the wild the way you do Wheel or Pyramid.
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Here's a "Which Came First?" Question from. The Barker Era:
• The Spay & Neuter sign-off, or
• The Adopt A Dog or Cat From Your Local Shelter segment that was occasionally featured during an IUFB?
I haven't seen any episodes on the Barker Era channel that feature a doggie during an IUFB.
I have. Per G-R, the pet adoption segments started 1/18/84.
As for the OP:
I find 3's a Crowd entertaining and am disappointed no episodes appear to be on YouTube.
I would rather have a cavity filled than watch the original version of Password.
Other than nostalgia, I don't get the inordinate love for the B&W shows, save for TTTT.
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I find 3's a Crowd entertaining and am disappointed no episodes appear to be on YouTube.
I'll turn this into an even hotter take- in 2025, this is the gem of the Barris catalog and would do numbers on Bravo.
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I find 3's a Crowd entertaining and am disappointed no episodes appear to be on YouTube.
I'll turn this into an even hotter take- in 2025, this is the gem of the Barris catalog and would do numbers on Bravo.
I don’t know if this is a hot take at all but I have no idea why GSN revived the show—steadies vs. exes was just not interesting, thought mom vs. girlfriend was sometimes ok. The best thing about the newer version was the theme and incidental music.
As much as I would love to see a triumphant return of Treasure Hunt, I fear it has been subsumed by Deal or No Deal. Harrumph.
I have no problem with the Jeopardy tournament ladder but feel like Second Chance is too far. Win two or three games and you can fight your way to the tournament. Two out of three people lose day in and day out, it isn’t the end of the world.
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I was never a fan of Bullseye (US). Whoever decided that a "contract" can be 5 questions in a row should been fired. I didn't have the patience for it when I watched it as a child, and I have the same impatience as an adult.
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I've never been a fan of "Whew!". For one thing I missed the show entirely during its original run and was never aware of its existence until the 90s (I think it aired opposite Password Plus in NY ironically). But the game to me has a fatal flaw in that you have to wait for Tom to finish reading the entire blooper before the charger can answer and to me that's cheating the contestant for the sake of getting a joke in. And the proof of this flaw is that an overwhelming number of times the charger loses. Of all the cult favorite game show, "Whew!" is the one that would get an "OVER-RATED!" chant from me.
The Barry-Enright shows for me have become unwatchable as an adult because of their ridiculously unchallenging question format and I've also become turned off to Jack Barry's entire style as a host. 76 "Break The Bank" is the only B-E show that has any level of rewatch to me.
B/W classics for me are better than any post-1983 game show that's ever aired.
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I have never found What's My Line anything other than boring. To be fair to the show, this is partially because I don't have any nostalgia for it (I was born in 1989).
It also doesn't help that What's My Line hasn't been done in 50 years (yipes!). Hey, there's a reminder: in a few weeks will be the 75th anniversary of WML.
I find 3's a Crowd entertaining and am disappointed no episodes appear to be on YouTube.
I'll turn this into an even hotter take- in 2025, this is the gem of the Barris catalog and would do numbers on Bravo.
And if they do air it, I'm sure they'll get pushback on social media. The sexism that's fundamentally baked into the secretary/wife format has aged like curdled milk. Heck, it aged badly even at the time! If Buzzr ever leases more of the Sony library, I think that's one show they're not going to touch with a 10 foot pole.
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I find 3's a Crowd entertaining and am disappointed no episodes appear to be on YouTube.
I'll turn this into an even hotter take- in 2025, this is the gem of the Barris catalog and would do numbers on Bravo.
And if they do air it, I'm sure they'll get pushback on social media. The sexism that's fundamentally baked into the secretary/wife format has aged like curdled milk. Heck, it aged badly even at the time! If Buzzr ever leases more of the Sony library, I think that's one show they're not going to touch with a 10 foot pole.
Let me clarify that- this as a revived format would do numbers. I've always thought Andy Cohen would be fantastic hosting a relationship show with some messy beats, considering his work on the Real Housewives reunions.
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I have a very strong degree of loathing for Match Game with Gene Rayburn (bonus: MG90 remains my favorite version)
The early-week episodes when the panel aren't sauced are indicative of how funny most of the panelists actually are (not very), the format itself is borderline arbitrary. But the main thing's Rayburn himself: while I know someone is going to come along with "but it was the 70s", I find Rayburn to be 100x the disgusting creep that Dawson (really wasn't) or prime sleaze-era Barker are. At times if he has a burr stuck to him about something, he's also frequently just an asshole to contestants or civilians. (And while the syndicated run and movement into the 1980s toned down some of the worst of it, the show also lost something when Dawson left that it never got back.)
The fact that this is the vintage show that's constantly being rerun 4-6x per day on Buzzr and has even survived on GSN drives me up a wall. I vote with my remote (and the sheer lack of episodes I've kept compared to other shows) but if Match Game disappeared from both networks and streaming on demand tomorrow and didn't come back, I wouldn't be worked about it in the slightest.
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The Price is right was getting stale with Bob in the late 90s. Bob stopped being fun, his age was showing, and the set and props were looking outdated compared to the international versions.
Ryan Secrest made Wheel of Fortune more enjoyable.
Doug Davidson wasn't a bad host at all.
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Here's a "Which Came First?" Question from. The Barker Era:
• The Spay & Neuter sign-off, or
• The Adopt A Dog or Cat From Your Local Shelter segment that was occasionally featured during an IUFB?
Spay/Neuter sign-offs were being occasionally used no later than May 1982 (GSN skipped so many episodes from that season that it's unknown where they began). For the first couple of years, Bob would make a point to do one occasionally but usually only when they had a few seconds, the winner didn't have a mob running up to congratulate them, etc.
As for the person who said January 1984, no. Earliest one was June 1, 1984 (5355D) in Lucky Seven (the dog's actually relaxing with it's head out the window of the car!) near the tail end of season 12.
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For us children of the 80s that like to keep sharp by playing the daily NYT Wordles and Spelling Bees, the GameTV Bumper Stumpers reruns really are the ideal nostalgic brain food.
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The Price is right was getting stale with Bob in the late 90s. Bob stopped being fun, his age was showing, and the set and props were looking outdated compared to the international versions.
Ryan Secrest made Wheel of Fortune more enjoyable.
Doug Davidson wasn't a bad host at all.
Agreed on all three counts, and I might be one of the few people who didn't mind eliminating one-bids in the '94 version. I know it defeats the purpose of the game, but it wasn't the worst idea in the world.
I've said this numerous times while chatting with others, but Wheel now has a personality that it hasn't had in 25 years. That and most of the bonus round puzzles are now something other than A(N) (ADJECTIVE) (NOUN) have done wonders for the show IMO.
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Card Sharks with Jim Perry is by far the best version of the show. Eubanks was not a good fit for it at all, hence the numerous changes to it and him steering it to be more like The Newlywed Game.
I seriously don't get the contempt with Bert Convy and Super Password. I felt that his more relaxed style fit the format better, and him "giving away the passwords" is entirely overblown. I think people just remember the show making it a running gag throwing tape at him when he would comment he thought he knew the answer.
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1. I liked Jeopardy better when it had a 5-day limit and wasn't dominated by people who spend months preparing and training for it like a sporting event.
2. On the same token, I liked Mayim better than Ken. Yes; Ken has improved, but I thought Mayim connected with the human aspect of the show better.
3. I've tried so many times, but I cannot get into classic TJW. I will admit that TJW 90 was and is one of my guilty pleasures, though. That said, Wink's TTD is eons better than TTD 90, and that's probably the only B-E show I truly appreciate as an adult (close second is Kennedy BTB).
4. I appreciate their places in game show history and have watched at least one episode from every major run of them, but I do not care for any of the classic panel shows at all. If you absolutely forced me to pick one to watch, I'd pick TTTT 90.
5. Oh, and completely agreed with Chelsea; I've seen so many episodes of Match Game and have tried to appreciate the humor and spontaneity, but I never go out of my way to watch it.
6. Last one, I promise: I actually preferred The Chamber to The Chair, but I also admit that's like saying I prefer cat poop to dog poop. McEnroe was a way better host, but I thought the torture aspect was done much better with The Chamber. But, if they had done 1000 Heartbeats...
Anthony
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Here's a "Which Came First?" Question from. The Barker Era:
• The Spay & Neuter sign-off, or
• The Adopt A Dog or Cat From Your Local Shelter segment that was occasionally featured during an IUFB?
Spay/Neuter sign-offs were being occasionally used no later than May 1982 (GSN skipped so many episodes from that season that it's unknown where they began). For the first couple of years, Bob would make a point to do one occasionally but usually only when they had a few seconds, the winner didn't have a mob running up to congratulate them, etc.
As for the person who said January 1984, no.
I apologize for this error. For some reason, I thought the timeline started with the first month of the year.
I liked Jeopardy better when it had a 5-day limit and wasn't dominated by people who spend months preparing and training for it like a sporting event.
I agree with this as well. When there's a contestant on that you don't like, you're cheering against him/her (e.g. James Holzhauer), which I don't think is a great way to watch a game show.
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The GameTV Bumper Stumpers reruns really are the ideal nostalgic brain food.
Almost mentioned this earlier - I never gave the show much attention back when it aired on USA, but I find it fun to play along with now.
However, my hot take with it - the theme song is the most annoying of all the game show themes.
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And if they do air it, I'm sure they'll get pushback on social media. The sexism that's fundamentally baked into the secretary/wife format has aged like curdled milk.
Very much. Not to mention that word is not used in that regard anymore - "administrative assistant" is what it's known as now.
I feel like it was wrong even then, but when I was in college in the '90s, I took a CAD (Computer Aided Design) class. The class was almost all men except for two women - the instructor (male) always, when talking to them, called them "you secretaries". How he never got in trouble for that is beyond me.
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- Game show fans are not immune to "your tastes peak in adolescence" similar to what happens with music.
- Too many newer games overtune their rubber-banding to allow for comebacks, but I'd rather have a comeback mechanic that's too strong than one that barely does anything
- Lingo without bingo is just L (stands for LACKS)
- The category and called letter should always be below the puzzleboard
- If your final round of The Weakest Link both increases the money ladder and doubles the amount won afterwards, why not just increase the money ladder to those doubled values to begin with
- Japanese game shows of the 70's & 80's are just as varied and interesting as the Game Shows of 75, and I say that without any hint of exoticism
- 45 minutes should be an acceptable length of time for a TV program, with or without ads
- I think an understated reason why game shows feel standardized day-to-day that's hard to put into words is the evolution of the workplace, both in terms of technological advances and changes to how the workplace is viewed
I liked Jeopardy better when it had a 5-day limit and wasn't dominated by people who spend months preparing and training for it like a sporting event.
I question the degree to which this happens. If people are prepping like it's a UFC Fight Camp, then that's a bit extreme, but if you told me I could improve my chance at winning around $20,000 if I just add a few things to my regular routine then I'd be an idiot not to do it. People "train" for other game shows, yet only Jeopardy seems to get flack for it.
I also think the superchamp "problem" became a problem because of the pandemic.
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It made sense for [Drew] to do the spay/neuter plug when he first took over the show
I guess my hot take is that I disagree with that sentiment. Same with keeping Barker's Bargain Bar without a name change, because I guess the fact that it was never played on the Kennedy version wasn't enough of a hint.
1. I liked Jeopardy better when it had a 5-day limit and wasn't dominated by people who spend months preparing and training for it like a sporting event.
I wouldn't consider this a hot take at all. I'm in full agreement with keeping the five-timers club as the limit. Same with not treating the show like it's the Olympics of quiz shows.
However, my hot take with it - the theme song [of Bumper Stumpers] is the most annoying of all the game show themes.
It's cheese, but I don't dislike it. The car horns and beeps are fitting for a show themed around vanity licence plates.
Now, the love that some have expressed for the '80s Split Second theme, that's one I don't get. If there was a most uninspiring, stereotypical game show theme of the '80s, that'd be my pick; and the Talk About theme would not be far behind.
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Ryan Secrest made Wheel of Fortune more enjoyable.
I'm not a "Wheel" watcher, but I have watched a few of Ryan's shows, and I do agree he's brought a bit of fresh air to the show.
Likewise Ken at J!.
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1. I liked Jeopardy better when it had a 5-day limit and wasn't dominated by people who spend months preparing and training for it like a sporting event.
Agree on the distaste for 'Jeopardy as sporting event', but like unlimited championship runs. I've never been keen for forced retirements on any game show it's appeared on, same for winnings limits - and I don't think it's even remotely a coincidence that some of the heights of the genre's success have coincided with either superchamp runs (J!, Thom on TTD, etc) or when it was popular to have carryover contestants have success on shows.
2. On the same token, I liked Mayim better than Ken. Yes; Ken has improved, but I thought Mayim connected with the human aspect of the show better.
I feel like Mayim got the 'Show' aspect of the term quiz show better, while obviously Ken is masterful at the "Quiz" portion.
4. I appreciate their places in game show history and have watched at least one episode from every major run of them, but I do not care for any of the classic panel shows at all. If you absolutely forced me to pick one to watch, I'd pick TTTT 90..
Here's Hot Takes #2 and #3 back to back:
The syndicated version of What's My Line is superior as a show to the CBS version. I am particularly fond of the Larry Blyden years with the blue set. (Tangent: Buzzr editing out the panel intros will forever wind me up in annoyance. I would literally they edit out credits instead ala GSN before cutting the intros.). Arlene in particular was WAY more interesting when she stepped back from the 'society' trappings of the CBS version and got down in the muck with the common people and often C-tier stars in the syndicated era - the 'fish out of water' vibe of having her do some of the demonstrations is quality entertainment. Soupy Sales, a pop figure utterly devoid of pretense, also makes for a sensational foil. The weeks Bennett turned up on the syndicated show prove out just how much of a stick in the mud everyone and everything associated with the 'classic' version often were, and
And although I think Garry was the better host in the 70s, if you really press me, my favorite version of TTTT is the 1980 version.
Only having semi-regular panelists pushed a bit more of the emphasis onto good central character and impostor booking, and this version has that in buckets. And while I think the execution needed tweaks, the idea of "Oh hey BTW one of the four impostors ALSO has something neat going on, can you figure out who?" was a fantastic idea for a side game (and better than the "Here's some extra person, who are they?" they ran with for '90).
This version also has not only my favorite Truth theme (I'm not huge on the 70s version although I like the 1990 re-do), but I think the opening of the show is sensational and best of panel shows. There are better Truth hosts than Robin Ward but even on his worst day he's perfectly decent, and in the ~quarter of the run I have there are some moments he absolutely shines.
The show definitely deserved more than 39 weeks and VERY sporadic GSN/Buzzr reruns, IMO.
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1. Drew should stop doing the Spay and Neuter signoff. He's found his own cause telling people to take care of their mental health, and often times those two messages seem like too much of a mouthful.
Whether he wants to talk about spay/neuter or about mental health, he needs to script it.
When you say the exact same phrase every day, like "Help control the pet population, have your pet spayed or neutered," it will stick in people's heads. When you ramble on for twenty seconds, not so much.
1. I liked Jeopardy better when it had a 5-day limit and wasn't dominated by people who spend months preparing and training for it like a sporting event.
I make the same comment about Countdown over in the UK. Moments like the 318×75 solve used to be breathtaking moments. Today, that level of skill is pretty much expected of you. Watching the Octochamps of today is often like watching a computer play the game.
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Bouncing off of Kevin, it is strange where Drew says the same thing every day but doesn’t advance the narrative, or makes it up as he goes and sometimes sticks the landing.
Still no love for how the Showcase segment ends but after 15 years that is unlikely to change.
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So my contribution to this thread:
I didn't think Paula Poundstone was all that bad on To Tell The Truth. Maybe it's just because I'm a fan of her comedy, but I don't think it's such a sin that she goofed off during her time rather than buckling down like Kitty Carlisle. When there's four panelists, there's room for everything.
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A few of mine:
Building off of the previously-noted critiques of the 1970s version of Match Game, one issue I have is that, in certain regards, it comes across as Goodson-Todman doing something we'd associate more with 1970s-era Barry and Enright- namely, copying aspects of another producer's format.
Family Feud has always struck me as a format that could be of potential interest, saddled with an assortment of unbearable hosts.
There are cults of personality around several figures in the medium that, to my eyes, are utterly incomprehensible- but are still so strong that I dare not hint at one of my key examples.....
In terms of the output of Chuck Barris, I get the feeling that the best way of understanding it is to realize that Barris appears to have been really good in terms of selling stuff, but that he doesn't seem to have had much in terms of ideas beyond draping his material with the zeitgeist of the time.
And, to offer a positive example: Information Please might have been the finest panel game ever produced in the United States.
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Here are a few of mine:
*I hate the 1969-78 To Tell the Truth theme. The "bah-bah-bah-bah-bah-bah-bah-bah's" are really annoying and I don't want the tune going thru my head. I hardly ever watch that version of the show and only have a few from that time frame saved in my collection. Having said that, I adore the 1990 instrumental remake of the same theme.
*I've always been attracted to shows with big flashy sets, numbers changing and flashing lights. Maybe that's why I like Press Your Luck, Celebrity Sweepstakes and Break the Bank '76 so much.
*I've lost some interest in Jeopardy recently. I just find it's usually way too obscure now. I used to be able to get approx 30 out of 61 responses right...now I'm lucky if I get 10. The material they're covering is so out there that no normal person could possibly know this. There have been a high number of episodes that ended in low scores because the contestants either kept missing or just didn't buzz in. Obviously some of them are feeling the same way I do. To me, it's lost some of its appeal.
*I find Steve Harvey to be quite full of himself and don't overly enjoy his version of Family Feud. It's on GSN all the time and it seems whenever I turn to the channel, that's all they're showing.
*While I loved Peter Marshall's version of Hollywood Squares growing up, I can see why it didn't do well on GSN. I'd love to see Davidson's version again.
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I still don't get why certain game shows of the recent past and present (McHale's Card Sharks, Strahan Pyramid, Baldwin Match Game,...) still put two separate 30‐minute episodes back-to-back and officially call it a single one hour episode, and in many cases, switching out wardrobes and/or celebrities.
Isn't it much easier to just shoot a one-hour episode with two games using the same group of celebrities and eliminate the wardrobe changes and the second round of "welcome to the show" banter?
You know darn well in the current TV world where nearly all 30-minute non-network reruns are aired back to back for at least one hour at a time, the alternate unaired version with the specific 30-minute intros/outros will never see the light of day in reruns.
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A few more:
- I enjoy Treasure Hunt a lot, yet I've never found Let's Make a Deal interesting.
- Baffle is a rarity that I'm perfectly content with seeing only one episode of. Ick
- PDQ on the other hand is a rarity I'd love to see a lot more of
- The Puzzle Game should've made it
- I thought Peter Allen really had potential, and it really is a pity that we couldn't see more of him in action
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Another one:
- PYL doesn't work as an hour show with a bonus round. It's quite predictable when the contestant will decide to stop.
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-LeVar Burton hosting Jeopardy became a thing because one person said it on Twitter, and the general populace rallied around it not because it was a good idea, but because it was the right thing to say at the time. It was a mostly performative measure that flopped because those same people retweeting and pushing for him to get a shot at bat didn't show up with their remotes when it actually counted.
-If Jeopardy is going to be a sport, I think it should act as such. Every week, give me four new players who play in four heats with one odd person out a day. Top 3 winners play Friday for a flat cash prize and a spot in the Jeopardy Playoffs. Winner of the playoff gets $1 million.
And although I think Garry was the better host in the 70s, if you really press me, my favorite version of TTTT is the 1980 version.
Contrary to popular belief, I think the Anthony Anderson-led run was a fantastic show. A little over the top at times, but it was a nice change from the very buttoned up social affairs of earlier versions. What's more, I think the smartest thing that version did was turn the format around to make the celebrities the contestants by scoring their correct guesses. It's much easier to do this on a one-hour show, but it was such a clever move.
Also, a lot of these hot takes are lukewarm and somewhat agreeable. YMMV, but maybe it's because we've become a more understanding, less confrontational bunch over the years, which isn't a bad thing.
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Contrary to popular belief, I think the Anthony Anderson-led run was a fantastic show. A little over the top at times, but it was a nice change from the very buttoned up social affairs of earlier versions. What's more, I think the smartest thing that version did was turn the format around to make the celebrities the contestants by scoring their correct guesses. It's much easier to do this on a one-hour show, but it was such a clever move.
We share a hot take on this one. It was consistently an enjoyable hour for me.
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I'm not sure if disliking the Match-Up rounds from MG90 is still a popular opinion around here or not, but having the chance to revisit the show courtesy of Buzzr, I find myself coming around on them a bit. I initially wrote them off as being too luck-based and lacking in humor, but ultimately they're an extension of the main conceit--testing whether the contestant is on the same wavelength as the celebs, with the added pressure of having to make snap judgements. And honestly, a lot of the time it's pretty obvious which option a celeb will choose (e.g. if the choice is between, say, CAROL SINGING or CAROL BURNETT, you know which one Vicki Lawrence is going with) and savvy contestants ought to pick up on that.
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You know darn well in the current TV world where nearly all 30-minute non-network reruns are aired back to back for at least one hour at a time, the alternate unaired version with the specific 30-minute intros/outros will never see the light of day in reruns.
What did/does GSN run when they air Strahan Pyramid? Full hours or the half-hour edits?
To answer your other question: with all the stopping and starting in modern production, it's not any harder to film for both cuts. The production company ends up with the choice of hours or half hours they can sell later, all for a few minutes of work on the front end.
-Jason
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Here's a few more of varying degrees of spiciness and 'deep cut-ness':
* John Davidson's version of Hollywood Squares is by far the best iteration of that format, not even close, and the closest any other version gets to it in quality levels is the last two years of Bergeron's version. Giving Squares a variety show makeover makes the series fun and unpredictable in a way that makes watching it - even decades after the fact - way, WAY less of a chore than any other version. I loathe Marshall-era HS almost as much as Match Game (see previous), and in general I think the first four years of the Bergeron run in particular haven't aged well, not because of offensiveness or anything, just that the jokes often aren't really that funny but it has nothing else to fall back on. (Also, I'm fine never seeing the 'You Fool' stuff again).
* Bill Rafferty is the best host of every single show he's ever hosted. Which doesn't say much for Every Second Counts, but I'll take him over Jim, Bob, or any of the others on Card Sharks, and I actually prefer him on Blockbusters to Bill Cullen (or to Bob Holness if we loop in non-US versions). Other versions are arguably better overall, but Rafferty hosts it just a hair better. Would have loved to see him have to deal with the family pair gimmick. Rafferty on Blockbusters also produced one of my favorite funny moments: Early in the run, Bill gets frustrated by all of the "Helpful Hints from Mary Ellen" questions and at one point goes on an extended thing making fun of the repetition of those questions. Sure enough, the next question he draws is one, at which point the audience, Bill, and the contestants have one of the most sincere and hearty (but not overdone) laughs I've seen on a game show.
* GSN's April Fools 2003 host swap stunt is charmingly eccentric, but also exposes a major flaw in the channel's productions circa that era (2002-04). Every. single. show. that swapped hosts was improved with the host change. To a one (albeit to various degrees). Graham Elwood's shtick made Whammy way more interesting, Marc Summers was PERFECT for Cram which desperately needed the proverbial straight man, Kennedy's snark and edge is SO much more suited towards the otherwise wallpaper paste-like Wintuition that it made the show interesting for the very first time, Mark L. Walberg's "extremely competent game show host with a slightly mean edge" is pitch perfect for Friend or Foe. Lastly, Todd Newton hosted Russian Roulette like he'd been doing it for 10 years. It's great TV, but it speaks to a bigger flaw of that era when every single show they produced got better when they changed the hosts for laugh.
* Scattergories in 1993 was a charmingly good show that deserved way, way longer than it got.
* Elizabeth Banks is PYL's best host, even though I prefer the half hour format.
* Bob Barker should have taken his victory lap in 2001-02 then left after Price's 30th season - and I will forever believe the main reason he stuck around (besides cash) those last few years was because his ego demanded he first first keep going into his 80s (2003), then get the "50 years on TV" thing by sticking around to December 2006. It's not a coincidence that latter one is when he retired. Many of his episodes from the last ~five years are just genuinely bad. The degree to which I hate Rich Fields as an announcer has some bearing in that as does the stuff that went down with Janice, Kathleen, and Paul Alter, but honestly? After around season 30 Bob just isn't able to be consistently 'on' in host mode anymore and until the adulation comes in for his retirement year he's just a crochety cantankerous old asshole who can't host a fraction as well as he used to and has run out of patience or the ability to improvise as well when things go sideways.
* Related: Firing Roger Dobkowitz is the single best production decision that The Price is Right has made since 1972, even if it took a couple of years to get to the good part in the aftermath. The calcification of that show into the fixed form it held from the late 80s into the first year of Drew's run rests largely upon Roger when it isn't Barker, and the show is orders of magnitude better since the early 2010s than it was at any point since the 80s. (The host's also a way better person which helps, but the producer changes had a massive amount to do with why Price with Drew is good).
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You know darn well in the current TV world where nearly all 30-minute non-network reruns are aired back to back for at least one hour at a time, the alternate unaired version with the specific 30-minute intros/outros will never see the light of day in reruns.
What did/does GSN run when they air Strahan Pyramid? Full hours or the half-hour edits?
It’s the hour eps. Weren’t they aiming for syndicated reruns, but as separate episodes?
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* Bill Rafferty is the best host of every single show he's ever hosted.
I know many of us view Bob Goen as the quintessential "guy who deserved more work based on his skill level", but I'd campaign just as hard for Bill Rafferty. To your point, his version of Card Sharks is the only one where I'm not skipping through just to watch the Money Cards.
On that note, I'd argue that Card Sharks might be the most high-profile game show with a serious track record of miscasting its hosts.
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You know darn well in the current TV world where nearly all 30-minute non-network reruns are aired back to back for at least one hour at a time, the alternate unaired version with the specific 30-minute intros/outros will never see the light of day in reruns.
What did/does GSN run when they air Strahan Pyramid? Full hours or the half-hour edits?
It’s the hour eps. Weren’t they aiming for syndicated reruns, but as separate episodes?
The show just recently left the schedule, but for a decently long stretch of time (months? A year?), they aired both: Hour-long episodes daily, and half-hour edits on the weekend (preceded by an hour-long episode?). I have a series record of The $100,000 Pyramid for YouTube TV, which, by default, captures new and repeat episodes. I can watch any of the hour episodes, but I also have 33 half-hour episodes currently saved. (ABC also reran half hour cuts of a few games in April 2024.)
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Ah, so Sony DID get use out of both formats via GSN, which I don't get at home. Thanks for the additional info.
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The show just recently left the schedule, but for a decently long stretch of time (months? A year?), they aired both: Hour-long episodes daily, and half-hour edits on the weekend (preceded by an hour-long episode?). I have a series record of The $100,000 Pyramid for YouTube TV, which, by default, captures new and repeat episodes. I can watch any of the hour episodes, but I also have 33 half-hour episodes currently saved. (ABC also reran half hour cuts of a few games in April 2024.)
I sit corrected...I think I vaguely remember the weekend reruns.
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* Bob Barker should have taken his victory lap in 2001-02 then left after Price's 30th season - and I will forever believe the main reason he stuck around (besides cash) those last few years was because his ego demanded he first first keep going into his 80s (2003), then get the "50 years on TV" thing by sticking around to December 2006. It's not a coincidence that latter one is when he retired. Many of his episodes from the last ~five years are just genuinely bad. The degree to which I hate Rich Fields as an announcer has some bearing in that as does the stuff that went down with Janice, Kathleen, and Paul Alter, but honestly? After around season 30 Bob just isn't able to be consistently 'on' in host mode anymore and until the adulation comes in for his retirement year he's just a crochety cantankerous old asshole who can't host a fraction as well as he used to and has run out of patience or the ability to improvise as well when things go sideways.
* Related: Firing Roger Dobkowitz is the single best production decision that The Price is Right has made since 1972, even if it took a couple of years to get to the good part in the aftermath. The calcification of that show into the fixed form it held from the late 80s into the first year of Drew's run rests largely upon Roger when it isn't Barker, and the show is orders of magnitude better since the early 2010s than it was at any point since the 80s. (The host's also a way better person which helps, but the producer changes had a massive amount to do with why Price with Drew is good).
Recently I watched an episode from the early-90s and realized the show didn't really need the youthful boost it got from Bob's cameo in Happy Gilmore. There was still a very palpable energy between 1992-96 that was only rivaled by what Arsenio Hall put out every night. And honestly, the college-age crowd did not gel with the cruise control mode the show entered around 2001. Say what you will about the goofy "Fried Chicken!" showcase, but it was way more tolerable than the "Things associated with the word ___" showcases that they ran into the ground. And don't even get me started on the "Historic moments". The last six or seven years became more and more of The Bob Barker Show that just happened to give away cars, trips, and hot tubs, and was comfort food that simply existed, similar to Wheel up until last year.
Oh and another hot take: Ted Slauson gave me the creeps in Perfect Bid. I couldn't care less about him going Rain Man with the prices and whether or not it was legal. The dude was just strange.
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Another one:
- PYL doesn't work as an hour show with a bonus round. It's quite predictable when the contestant will decide to stop.
Not a hot take. I've never thought the bonus round was that necessary.
* Bill Rafferty is the best host of every single show he's ever hosted.
Also not a hot take; I'd put him second to Perry (and a *very close* second at that) among CS hosts. I've spoken here before on how he'd hype up car wins (just going on about whatever until he gets to the word (flips over card) "CAR"!!!). I'd probably have to re-watch some BB....both Rafferty *and* Cullen......and take notes, though.
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Fun thread. Here's a few more:
- Mike Richards was as great a choice for a TPIR showrunner as he was a terrible choice for a Jeopardy host.
- Pay the Rent is a terrific pricing game that rewards LFaTs with smart strategy.
- The wheel is the least interesting part of Wheel of Fortune, and needs a refresh as significant as what’s been done with the rest of the show.
- Boom! was one of the more unique and engaging formats we’ve seen in many years and deserved a better fate.
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As someone who consumes a lot of good sports talk media (The Dan Patrick Show being my favorite), this forum doesn't naturally have "Hot Takes". We have discussions that are full of nuance
(heck another thread had a math joke) whereas a "hot take" is meant to elicit a strong reaction and an argument.
Example:
Normal discourse: I know that restaurant is your favorite, but I don't like it.
Hot Take culture: YOUR FAVORITE PLACE TO EAT IS TRASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We don't take the bait, and that's the main crux of "Hot Takes". We don't want a foil to our argument. Remember a decade ago the website gameshowconfessions? I kind of attribute this thread to that.
/Why yes, I do think ESPN should forfeit their profits every year because they introduced us to Skip Bayless.
//I have really, really, really mean Skip Bayless if anyone is interested.
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But the game to me has a fatal flaw in that you have to wait for Tom to finish reading the entire blooper before the charger can answer and to me that's cheating the contestant for the sake of getting a joke in. And the proof of this flaw is that an overwhelming number of times the charger loses.
I agree with both of these, yet love Whew.
I never liked Bullseye, Ernest Borgnine’s appearance notwithstanding. There may have been the seed of a game there, but it wouldn’t go with the circus-y set and spinning things. To this day, I don’t understand what happened when there was a wrong answer. Jim Lange was both awkward and dull.
I never liked Chain Reaction, either. The set was chintzy as hell, and it looked weird that the players all had to stand. The celebs were lamer than lame. The game itself is okay but devoid of action. When they finished a chain, geez, SOMETHING should have happened.
Possibly hot take: I don’t like Mark Summers. Big caveat: I was too old for Double Dare, but I find him charmless and aggressively dull on anything else, even his Food Network show. I’m sure he’s nice in person, though.
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I honestly thought a decently produced two hour block of game shows in the afternoon had the ability to attract a decent audience.
I still do.
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I didn't think I had one, but after watching that late '89 WOF recently linked, I do:
Rolf didn't get a fair shake.
He seemed really pleasant and engaged in the contestant interviews, and I think he could have grown into the hosting role nicely.
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1. Drew should stop doing the Spay and Neuter signoff. He's found his own cause telling people to take care of their mental health, and often times those two messages seem like too much of a mouthful. As a friend recently mentioned, the show is still doing a Pet Adoption Week, so there are ways to honor the positive parts of Bob's legacy without being beholden to a magic phrase that doesn't resonate with people anymore.
I'm on the phone to Evelyn Warfel.
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Possibly hot take: I don’t like Mark Summers. Big caveat: I was too old for Double Dare, but I find him charmless and aggressively dull on anything else, even his Food Network show. I’m sure he’s nice in person, though.
Nicest guy in the business! Marc is also very funny.
A few of my hot takes:
- I find Tic Tac Dough to be boring. I loved watching it when I was a little kid, mainly for the visual and graphical aspects, as well as the bonus round. Wink was a great host, of course. As an adult, the show can't hold my attention. "Strategy, knowledge, and fun." Okay, but where's the fun? I am interested to see how GSN's update will be though.
- I'm not interested in how modern game shows put such a large focus on the contestant's human interest story. Yes, let us get to know the players, but then just play the game without all the fluff. Press Your Luck's bonus round and Deal or No Deal, I'm looking at you.
- I don't care for the Showcase Showdown anymore. Whenever I do watch TPIR, I just mute that segment.
- My favorite version of Hollywood Squares is John Davidson's version.
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I didn't think I had one, but after watching that late '89 WOF recently linked, I do:
Rolf didn't get a fair shake.
He seemed really pleasant and engaged in the contestant interviews, and I think he could have grown into the hosting role nicely.
In a somewhat similar vein:
I don't think Patrick Wayne is anywhere near as bad a host as people make him out to be. Is he a "good" host? No - but people make him out to be the worst game show host in history. I've seen orders of magnitude worse. Ditto Mike Reilly.
None of this is to defend either Tic Tac Dough 90 or Monopoly 90, both of which had much greater issues then who was hosting.
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I don't think Patrick Wayne is anywhere near as bad a host as people make him out to be. Is he a "good" host? No - but people make him out to be the worst game show host in history. I've seen orders of magnitude worse. Ditto Mike Reilly.
I don’t think enough people in our fandom understand that hosts have people coaching them on how to act. Was Patrick great? No, but having seen him on other projects I realize someone was telling him what to do on TTD.
Another hot take: many modern audience wranglers don’t know what they’re doing and don’t realize that unless you’re TPiR or LMaD, the audience is not a member of the show and we don’t need their reaction to everything. Honestly, some shows would be improved 100% if they used a canned audience instead.
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- I'm not interested in how modern game shows put such a large focus on the contestant's human interest story. Yes, let us get to know the players, but then just play the game without all the fluff. Press Your Luck's bonus round and Deal or No Deal, I'm looking at you.
So very much this. At the risk of sounding cold and heartless, I don't really care about their backstory/struggles. Just play.
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- PYL doesn't work as an hour show with a bonus round. It's quite predictable when the contestant will decide to stop.
Ted Slauson gave me the creeps in Perfect Bid. I couldn't care less about him going Rain Man with the prices and whether or not it was legal. The dude was just strange.
Both of these takes are so cold Imma need to find a sweater. I could have truncated Brandon's after the sixth word.
Really to Aaron's comment: the nature of self-contained game-show production is such these days that with these new shows I have to make an active effort not to watch any sort of clock or timing if I don't want the end segment totally telegraphed, and even at that it only works maybe half the time. I think this is why I stick to Jeopardy and Pyramid for the most part. (Or, you know, just accept it and replace the onion on my belt.)
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- I'm not interested in how modern game shows put such a large focus on the contestant's human interest story. Yes, let us get to know the players, but then just play the game without all the fluff. Press Your Luck's bonus round and Deal or No Deal, I'm looking at you.
The show that's most criminal about this, to me, is The Wall. Mark and Patty pulled 17 dogs from a burning building and not only did they lose the $1.2 million they earned on The Wall, but you make them monologue to a marriage proposal-esque level of melodrama to find out they didn't even win turtle wax.
Really to Aaron's comment: the nature of self-contained game-show production is such these days that with these new shows I have to make an active effort not to watch any sort of clock or timing if I don't want the end segment totally telegraphed, and even at that it only works maybe half the time.
Same here. What I've found works best is when I'm doing another task while the show in on in the background, whether it's household chores or playing on my Switch. Having a primary task that commands my attention keeps me from clock-watching and spoiling the outcome for myself.
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Why not? The geezer weighs in...
Always enjoyed the big clunky machines. B&E had a knack for them. Immediately disliked it when Classic Concentration and Blockbusters II went to computer generated boards. Art James struck me as a somewhat awkward, though nice, host. Frequent hesitations and momentary lapses while trying to figure out what to do on shows like Catch Phrase and Pay Cards. Was fine on Temptation and WWW. So few hour games are worth the time to watch because of the stretch (including the earlier mentioned contest background and relatives pieces). Agree with praises for Rafferty. Also, the "leave with nothing after using the contestant(s) for a full show" also leaves a bad taste. A small sum like many bonus games (You didn't win the 10 grand, but here's $100 for each one you got right) would be nice.
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Why not? The geezer weighs in...
Always enjoyed the big clunky machines. B&E had a knack for them. Immediately disliked it when Classic Concentration and Blockbusters II went to computer generated boards. Art James struck me as a somewhat awkward, though nice, host. Frequent hesitations and momentary lapses while trying to figure out what to do on shows like Catch Phrase and Pay Cards. Was fine on Temptation and WWW.
I've always wondered if Ron Greenberg ever thought of tapping Art James as Jack Barry's successor on Joker after Jack died since they tag teamed for the 3W's.
Speaking of B&E, I was a fan of most of their shows when I was a kid because of the "chrome" -- lights and sfx. Now as an adult, with the exception of the CBS run of TJW (which used challenging questions) and Break The Bank, once you overlooked the chrome, the shows were just meh.
Ted Slauson gave me the creeps in Perfect Bid. I couldn't care less about him going Rain Man with the prices and whether or not it was legal. The dude was just strange.
Both of these takes are so cold Imma need to find a sweater. I could have truncated Brandon's after the sixth word.
/Channeling Art Fern @ the Slauson cut-off...
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I have three...
He's rarely mentioned, but Pat Sajak is one of the best Password celebrities. He was consistently solid. I think he's overlooked because he really didn't do word games outside of Password, and with the exception of one week of Password Plus, he only did Super Password.
After having watched the entire run via Tubi, I feel that Relatively Speaking was a good show that was never going to succeed in the era in which it was conceived. I've never seen the appeal of John Byner and Jamie Farr, but they were both great here (and Anne Bloom and Meredith MacRae were fine picks for the regular panelists). I could see this working as a weekly show in the '70s or something a decade or so later (maybe on GSN?), but as a daily show in the '80s? Yeah, no. (Also, can someone please dig up the theme for this one? So, so good.)
Although I really hate the way it's utilized, Stack the Deck is far from the worst pricing game on Price today. It's clear that the staff doesn't care for it (I've seen Drew rip it at tapings, and it's one of two active games that's never been played in primetime - Check Game is the other), but it's apparently still fulfilling a purpose. I think there are much, much worse games - mostly quickies that are boring, games that really need a refresh (usually due to inflation), or both (looking at you, Squeeze Play and Range Game).
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Good points, Tim. I remember the time that Art James was doing announcer chores on Joker and he screwed up a prize plug, leading to Jack saying on-air, "Well said, Art." He didn't last long. I liked how one person described the B&E q&a trilogy - "the shows are like ice cream. One is vanilla, one tastes like chocolate, another tastes like strawberry, but they're all ice cream." All 5th grade level Q&As. The redeeming factor with Joker was the wheels. You could be a genius, but if the wheel spins were bad for you and better for your opponent, you could still lose despite answering every question. You always had to play the hand given you.
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One correction to the B&E Chrome look, actually, an exception...
The Hollywood Connection set looked like a local TV station's attempt at a game show using a used local telethon set.
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Both of these takes are so cold Imma need to find a sweater. I could have truncated Brandon's after the sixth word.
I only have hoodies to lend you, assuming my lady didn't steal them already. :P I considered it a hot take because it felt like everyone loved the documentary and put him on a pedestal (even the non-fanbois), and I just didn't get the appeal.
To Aaron and everyone else's point, I definitely learned not to watch the clock with it comes to PYL. And I echo the others who said the bonus round is unnecessary. I always found it to be too much like Deal or No Deal and would rather just have two self-contained shows where the high score wins.
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He's rarely mentioned, but Pat Sajak is one of the best Password celebrities. He was consistently solid. I think he's overlooked because he really didn't do word games outside of Password, and with the exception of one week of Password Plus, he only did Super Password.
When Celebrity WoF landed on ABC, I was hoping they'd use that as an excuse to book him on Pyramid.
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I was at a charity event featuring Pat a year or so ago with a Q&A, and actually asked him if there were any other shows he would be like to be a celebrity guest on, given his great performances on Password(s). He said it wasn't something he was interested in doing and that he really doesn't watch any game shows. Though he did follow-up with the fact he loves word games, tends to be good at them and is a devotee of crossword puzzles.
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I have never understood the appeal of Cash Cab. It's filler. It's good filler, but it's filler nonetheless.
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I've always wondered if Ron Greenberg ever thought of tapping Art James as Jack Barry's successor on Joker after Jack died since they tag teamed for the 3W's.
Ron Greenberg was long gone. He left while Jack was still alive; I was hunting for this clip because I KNOW I've seen it, but there's an episode of Joker where Jack wraps up the Audience Game and then announces that Ron is leaving the show, giving a nice little speech thanking him for all his fine work.
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That clip was in a YouTube video paying tribute to Ron for his 80th birthday. It also featured clips from other shows he created, including unsold pilots.
I remember trying to find the video a few years ago and it was private.
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At the risk of sounding cold and heartless, I don't really care about their backstory/struggles. Just play.
Even in the context of game shows that exploit tragedy for clout, this reads as "shut up and dribble"
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Ok then. Hush up and buzz. Unless you’re a five-nines memorable player, nobody will remember you. I think the chat segment mid-show or before a bonus game is plenty enough.
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I totally love this thread! I'd like to echo some thoughts and share some of my own...
For the longest time I thought I was the only person who felt Jim Lange was "so so" as a host. He seemed like a genuinely nice man but there just seemed to be something "phony" at times about his hosting.
As unpopular as it was to many, I actually liked the 1978-79 NBC revival of Jeopardy! Art Fleming as host was cool, it was still a manually operated board, I even loved the bonus game they added...the only thing I disliked was that they eliminated the Final Jeopardy clue but I suppose having that could have run the risk of it ending in a tie, but a tiebreaker clue could have been used.
Jack Barry was a very "clunky" host. He was awkward at times. Also, while many seemed to enjoy the audience game, I detested it. It was no different than if I went to watch 3 people at the casino playing the slot machines...
I agree Bill Rafferty was a sensational host. I would have loved to see what he could have done with Family Feud...
While I very much liked the "push" rule for the Money Cards, I kind of disliked it when it was at the Big Bet, if someone had $10,000 and an Ace, it was anti-climactic because you knew at WORST, they would win $10,000...I always felt the Big Bet should be subject to a push meaning a loss...
I disliked it when Wink's Tic Tac Dough introduced the red categories. I realize they wanted to spice the game up some but I preferred the front game less spicy, especially when players were able to match wits round by round.
[Edited to shorten a TON. I tried to leave what was close to the intent of the thread. -Jason]
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Also, while many seemed to enjoy the audience game, I detested it.
In the 20 years this board has been around, I've never seen one person, let alone many say that enjoy the audience game.
Even in the context of game shows that exploit tragedy for clout, this reads as "shut up and dribble"
I don't think this is a fair comparison. With people like Travis Kelce, you're hearing about them during the course of a season. The folks on modern game shows are typically there for 60 minutes at most. A brief introduction is all I need--cut to the chase.
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Jack Barry was a very "clunky" host. He was awkward at times. Also, while many seemed to enjoy the audience game, I detested it. It was no different than if I went to watch 3 people at the casino playing the slot machines...
Remember how I mentioned about the "Bumper Stumpers" music and how annoying it is? The cue they play for the audience game is right up there with it.
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To Aaron and everyone else's point, I definitely learned not to watch the clock with it comes to PYL. And I echo the others who said the bonus round is unnecessary. I always found it to be too much like Deal or No Deal and would rather just have two self-contained shows where the high score wins.
This I completely disagree with. PYL with a bonus round gives the main game the strategy it needs if you don't have returning champions. Do you keep spinning, knowing the odds of you catching up in 1 or 2 spins is small, or do you pass and leave fate in the hands of your opponent in order to get to the bonus game where you can make even more money? I agree that it's largely PYDOND, but it's there for a good reason. That being said, it's time they mix it up again, it's become a bit stale.
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Jack Barry was a very "clunky" host. He was awkward at times. Also, while many seemed to enjoy the audience game, I detested it. It was no different than if I went to watch 3 people at the casino playing the slot machines...
Remember how I mentioned about the "Bumper Stumpers" music and how annoying it is? The cue they play for the audience game is right up there with it.
I wouldn't rank it as one of my top favorite themes, but I rather liked the Bumper Stumpers theme. Even thought the intro with the lively piccolo (I think?) that leads up to the more familiar "honky" part was cute too.
Joker's Wild '90, now THAT theme's annoying. Same 10-ish seconds on infinite loop, blah.
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Something something tl;dr.
Brevity is the soul of wit.
I like the Bumper Stumpers theme, though it wasn't terribly complex and can easily be replicated on my drive home on the interstate.
Maybe not a sizzling hot take but Keynotes and the Peter Allen Name That Tune are two of my favorite unsold pilots, and that's coming from someone who has little interest in music.
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Something something tl;dr.
Brevity is the soul of wit.
I like the Bumper Stumpers theme, though it wasn't terribly complex and can easily be replicated on my drive home on the interstate.
Maybe not a sizzling hot take but Keynotes and the Peter Allen Name That Tune are two of my favorite unsold pilots, and that's coming from someone who has little interest in music.
Bumper Stumpers has grown on me as well. That's a show format that should've been rebooted somewhere as I think the use of personalized license plates with letters and numb3rs is at an all time high -- at least in my neck of the woods.
I wasn't as much as a fan of the show back there as the theme, the plumber's set and the "avoid the stop sign" bonus game made it look a little too corny.
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I liked Temptation '68 (even with what few episodes exist), and that should've been the Temptation we had in 2007 (mostly because we didn't get the Temptation we wanted).
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While I very much liked the "push" rule for the Money Cards, I kind of disliked it when it was at the Big Bet, if someone had $10,000 and an Ace, it was anti-climactic because you knew at WORST, they would win $10,000...I always felt the Big Bet should be subject to a push meaning a loss...
So you want players to be given a break all the way up until the most lucrative call of the game?
While I do agree with the "meh" of a push, I don't agree with making it a loss at the end If you cut the cards as such where your Ace came up when you've got thousands to bet, that should be your money.
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Do you keep spinning, knowing the odds of you catching up in 1 or 2 spins is small, or do you pass and leave fate in the hands of your opponent in order to get to the bonus game where you can make even more money?
The two possibilities, that you could win something or nothing, gives it all the strategy it needs. The bonus game only detracts from the main game, which is pretty great.
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While I very much liked the "push" rule for the Money Cards, I kind of disliked it when it was at the Big Bet, if someone had $10,000 and an Ace, it was anti-climactic because you knew at WORST, they would win $10,000...I always felt the Big Bet should be subject to a push meaning a loss...
I disliked it when Wink's Tic Tac Dough introduced the red categories. I realize they wanted to spice the game up some but I preferred the front game less spicy, especially when players were able to match wits round by round.
I don’t like the push rule at all. I realize I’m a curmudgeon, but it’s a gambling game. Offering a bet that you can’t lose feels unnatural.
I totally agree on the red categories. On Joker’s Wild, they’d present the strategic option of avoiding them, but not on Tic Tac. If they wanted to spice something up, spice up the bonus round.
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The "push rule" is quite literally one of the very few things my wife and I disagree on. I say because it's the same, it *SHOULD* be a push, but my wife (who was at one point a math teacher) says it shouldn't be, because it's neither higher nor lower, which was the bet. I don't agree, but she makes a fair point.
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The "push rule" is quite literally one of the very few things my wife and I disagree on. I say because it's the same, it *SHOULD* be a push, but my wife (who was at one point a math teacher) says it shouldn't be, because it's neither higher nor lower, which was the bet. I don't agree, but she makes a fair point.
I was gonna say that a casino analogy backing your wife's position would be the "0" on roulette. It's neither red nor black, odd nor even, etc.
But then again a casino analogy backing your position would be Baccarat. When the Player and Banker hands are tied, all bets push.
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Would Blackjack be a good analogy? If the dealer and I both get an 18, I don't collect but I don't lose my bet either.
It reminds me of the CS contestant who got three or four pushes in a row, and I wanna say he went Bust. It made for an interesting blooper but it still feels like bad television.
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Would Blackjack be a good analogy? If the dealer and I both get an 18, I don't collect but I don't lose my bet either.
I think Baccarat is a better comparison in this case because Blackjack is your hand versus an adversary. Baccarat is you choosing between two possibilities, not unlike the Higher/Lower decision.
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but my wife (who was at one point a math teacher) says it shouldn't be, because it's neither higher nor lower, which was the bet. I don't agree, but she makes a fair point.
She's logically right, but there's no situation where a game show can come out looking good because they didn't provide a correct answer and then took money away from the contestant.
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I have never understood the appeal of Cash Cab. It's filler. It's good filler, but it's filler nonetheless.
It's curious to me that this show gets a brickbat since you literally created a format to be finished within five minutes in a single take.
Sometimes I want a battery of fun trivia questions with contestants who are fun and excited but not over the top.
To Jeremy's point about the takes being chilly to cool--for me personally getting to know people in the industry has helped to understand things such as casting decisions and rule sets, and also getting to know several people through conventions or chatting all the way back to the days of ICQ and AOL IM. I certainly have strong opinions, and I'll die upon the hill the Scrabble is better when they don't have to play to a time up sound effect, but I'm not going to dismiss the opinions of people who have become if not lifelong friends, we're at least excellent to each other.
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The "push rule" is quite literally one of the very few things my wife and I disagree on. I say because it's the same, it *SHOULD* be a push, but my wife (who was at one point a math teacher) says it shouldn't be, because it's neither higher nor lower, which was the bet. I don't agree, but she makes a fair point.
As a contestant, no, you don't lose money, but keep in mind that it's still a wasted turn that cuts deeply into your max possible win. So while you don't lose the money from your current bankroll, it hurts down the line.
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I never liked the 3rd set for Most Expensive that lasted from the mid 80s and into Drew's *third* season and was so glad when it changed. In fact, the current set that's been in use for the last 15 years is the best set that game has ever had (and that's coming from a person that adores 5 Price Tags).
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Bears repeating for me: while I don’t think they need to be removed completely, I think the offering of seven- (or more) digit cash prizes need to be pared way down. These prizes should be achieved by natural progression (Jeopardy!), special tournaments, or meeting every difficult objective (Wheel of Fortune), and not by simply tacking on zeroes or multipliers to existing formats (looking at you, Price is Right - though I do applaud their recent nighttime shows putting more emphasis on bigger prizes and more cash without resorting to that crutch).
Likely in the minority, but it’s time for this current version of Family Feud to switch things up. Once you’ve heard one euphemism or double entendre, you’ve heard them all. I know it can’t be reset to the type of content from nearly 50 years ago, but they can relax with the raciness.
I do agree with those who said TPIR can do away with the Barker-era aspects now that Barker himself has departed. The legacy Bob left behind will not be erased, but Drew can start forging his own path, especially with his championing mental health.
I also agree that, thanks to BUZZR and Pluto’s wide availability of the early to mid-80s TPIR shows, I’ve gained as much disdain for the last seven year’s of Barker’s run as I have fondness for the mid-80s shows. There was more time to roll with the punches and banter with the contestants than in the later shows, where Bob always seemed to come off like an ass and rushed contestants when pressed for time.
Come to think of it, I think TPIR today could benefit from regaining a few extra minutes originally lost from commercial time over the years.
Finally, I enjoyed practical sets and manual controls over all things computerized. I find game shows to be more appealing with live sets.
The Inquisitive One
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Does anybody really care what a contestant will do with the top prize, especially when it's usually "Take a trip" and casting directors tell you don't be boring and say "pay off debt"? It's become such a crutch that too many new game shows fall back on.
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*Super Password, MG90, Davidson HS, and TTTT90 are my versions of these shows.
*Plinko! is boring. I actually like Joker and Pick a Number.
*I also dislike the Queen for a Day aspect of Banks PYL.
*WoF: they might as well change the name to Toss-Up of Fortune. Seriously, why is that needed just to see who gets interviewed first?
*J!: Why do they need all these tournaments, wild cards, second chance, quarter final, etc weeks? Just do a one week ToC at the end of the season.
*Top Card with Jim and Blake was a good game.
TPiR: I know it's strategic, but I automatically pull against someone who does the $1 higher bid in Contestants Row.
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*I also dislike the Queen for a Day aspect of Banks PYL.
As much as I've been a Press Your Luck fan over the years, I'll admit that the "bonus round" on the current version drags on way too long and isn't all that interesting. It's been discussed about these hour-long shows that are really two half-hours stitched together. I think the current PYL could benefit from that - just have two games within the hour as the other shows do. It would be a lot more interesting.
On another note, another "hot take" is becoming champion on a game show and not winning anything. It's happened a few times on some of these current shows or shows of yesteryear. I think if you win even one game, you should get *something" (even $100 in consolation cash!)
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- "Concentration" (the original series) will always be my favorite game show. It was the first game show I was able to playalong. I learned to read while watching it.
- I would rather see a new quiz than another revival. (Although I do have an idea for YDS!)
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Your show is doomed if the title contains the word "Machine."
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Your show is doomed if the title contains the word "Machine."
...or if they add the word "Celebrity" to their show's title during their run.
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- I would rather see a new quiz than another revival. (Although I do have an idea for YDS!)
Now you've done it...somebody is probably hammering out some way to "Americanize" Only Connect, probably with a tie-in to the New York Times and its "Connections" game, after hearing that.
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In the 20 years this board has been around, I've never seen one person, let alone many say that enjoy the audience game.
I enjoyed the audience game.
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TPiR: I know it's strategic, but I automatically pull against someone who does the $1 higher bid in Contestants Row.
I do, too, especially when people hoot and holler and seek applause when doing it. Also annoying: when someone does it and isn’t bidding last, then looks bummed when it happens to them.
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As much as I've been a Press Your Luck fan over the years, I'll admit that the "bonus round" on the current version drags on way too long and isn't all that interesting. It's been discussed about these hour-long shows that are really two half-hours stitched together. I think the current PYL could benefit from that - just have two games within the hour as the other shows do. It would be a lot more interesting.
Can I replace my "Cash Cab is overrated" hot take and replace it with "The Press Your Luck bonus round is actually awesome and one of the few instances in the past 25 years where a change made to a legacy show actually made it better"?
I love everything about the PYL bonus round. The escalating values (and risks) of each subsequent round. The personalized prizes adding depth of character by giving the contestant a chance to win prizes that actually had sentimental value beyond just the typical cars and trips. And a million-dollar prize that was difficult but not impossible to win, with a goal that was so tantalizingly close and yet so far, enticing people to take their shot. (Sure that one guy went for it and hit a Whammy on his penultimate spin, but what are exciting wins without a couple of heartbreaking moments for contrast?)
Also, who's to say there's enough show time to play two full games of PYL in one hour without having to massively edit one or both games for time? Part of the reason the bonus round is useful is because it could allow an especially long main game to play out naturally without having to hack it to pieces, just to get it to 22 minutes.
The PYL bonus round was actually a chance to get to know the winner beyond just the interview they gave at the top of the show, and the personalized prizes were a brilliant way to add character depth to a show that would otherwise feel like an assembly line of people screaming BBNWS.
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…the personalized prizes were a brilliant way to add character depth to a show that would otherwise feel like an assembly line of people screaming BBNWS.
When I want depth of character, I put on HBO. If I turn on Press Your Luck, I want “television’s most competitive game,” as Peter would say. If the players feel like an assembly line, that’s poor selection and/or coaching.
As far as time restraints go, they could trim the first round to two questions or even just one.
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…the personalized prizes were a brilliant way to add character depth to a show that would otherwise feel like an assembly line of people screaming BBNWS.
When I want depth of character, I put on HBO. If I turn on Press Your Luck, I want “television’s most competitive game,” as Peter would say. If the players feel like an assembly line, that’s poor selection and/or coaching.
As far as time restraints go, they could trim the first round to two questions or even just one.
I always thought that the CBS Daytime version did a great job at stretching or trimming episodes to fit the 30-minute time slot -- mostly by using built in bumpers going into and coming out of commercials, and the poems.
There were the few occasions when Peter really had to stretch after shorter-than-expected games, reading 3+ poems at the end, and of course there was the Michael Larsen game...
I've always wondered if PYL could ever work back then (or today as a daily show) as a game which straddled matches between episodes, given that back then you still had a few shows that would stop the game mid-stream a d pick up where they left off the next episode.
You could kinda, sorta say it's plausible seeing how they had to straddle Larsen's game over a weekend, which just added more suspense to the match.
I didn't even mind in the earlier days of Pyramid, when excessive tie-breakers led to just one Winners Circle in the show, and 3 WC's on the next show. Although it may suck on a Friday show that a winner did not get to play the WC with the celebrity they won with, as there was a new celebrity duo on the Monday show.
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I didn't even mind in the earlier days of Pyramid, when excessive tie-breakers led to just one Winners Circle in the show, and 3 WC's on the next show. Although it may suck on a Friday show that a winner did not get to play the WC with the celebrity they won with, as there was a new celebrity duo on the Monday show.
Did this not happen (at least once) and the celebrity (Nipsey Russell, IIRC) did return just to play the Winners' Circle off the top on the Monday show and then left?
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Yes. I saw that happen and remember it clearly, and obviously the reason they could do that and "hold" Nipsey over was because they were doing two weeks of shows in one day of taping. It happened around 1975-76 since that's my clearest memory of watching "lost" Pyramid in those days.
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Yes. I saw that happen and remember it clearly, and obviously the reason they could do that and "hold" Nipsey over was because they were doing two weeks of shows in one day of taping. It happened around 1975-76 since that's my clearest memory of watching "lost" Pyramid in those days.
It's such a rare occurrence in the first place. I thought Pyramid played it like Password+ or Super Password: New Week...New Celebs...Coin toss determines which celeb pairs with champion in Alphabetics/Super Password.
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I think the Nipsey incident may have been the genesis for what led to the rule we're more familiar with in the latter NY run where a tie game on Friday means the celebs play for $5000 to be split evenly among the contestants and they start over on Monday.
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I've always wondered if PYL could ever work back then (or today as a daily show) as a game which straddled matches between episodes, given that back then you still had a few shows that would stop the game mid-stream a d pick up where they left off the next episode.
Has there ever been a show that straddled and also incorporated distinct rounds of play? Seems like straddling only works when you're playing with the same parameters throughout the game.
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What do you mean by distinct rounds of play? Do you mean different like how AG had different events, or The Price is Right? Most game shows are like Blockbusters or Card Sharks where you’re doing the dpsame thing just broken up by an end game.
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Games where the main game is playing out the same process over and over again. The win condition generally involves either reaching a particular score threshold (like Joker's Wild being a race to $500) or playing a best of 3 match of smaller games (Card Sharks, High Rollers, etc.). Straddling works in these situations because it's easy to explain where the game state was when starting a new episode.
PYL probably doesn't work as a straddle because you're constantly jumping back and forth between question and spin rounds, and then having to carry over three players' scores, spin and Whammy counts from one day to the next would be a lot of info to debrief the audience on the following day.
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Scrabble managed until 1986 or so, but it was the same goal for both the crossword and the Sprint.
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Your show is doomed if the title contains the word "Machine."
Not The George Michael Sports Machine.
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I always thought that touting your new series as "TV's ____est new game show" was a kiss of death.
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Today's game shows have the fakest contestants. The new shows have some of the worst. Watching tonight's episode of HS is an example.
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The 1990 Fun House looks more fun to run through than any Double Dare obstacle course configuration.
Also, how only a handful of teams in three seasons figured out that the most efficient run includes grabbing the first three visible tags then tagging out was kinda amazing.
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I always thought that touting your new series as "TV's ____est new game show" was a kiss of death.
https://youtu.be/FNX2Qrn6Pbg?feature=shared
Not for The Joker’s Wild. Evidently someone told Jack later that what he said was the way better way to top the show.
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Not for The Joker’s Wild. Evidently someone told Jack later that what he said was the way better way to top the show.
"Jack, you've got a rep. Maybe back off the hyperbolic superlatives for now, huh?"
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This might be crazy talk but Match Game in 1990 was as good, if not better, than Match Game in the 70s and 80s.
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This might be crazy talk but Match Game in 1990 was as good, if not better, than Match Game in the 70s and 80s.
Perfectly sane take. It might be because GSN and Buzzr's shown it continuously for 30 years, but I'm good on my MG7x/PM fix. It's not even because some of the humor or Gene's/the panelists' behavior aged like milk; I'm just burned out on that version of the show.
MG90 on the other hand? Buzzr did a marathon of the show last summer and the few eps. I watched was the most MG I'd seen prolly since Baldwin's version ended. Dunno if it's on my "came out a few years too early and a few too late" list, but it deserved longer than a year. Maybe CBS should've aired it?
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I prefer Family Feud when it's played to 200 points, because Richard gets to chat more with the families.
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This might be crazy talk but Match Game in 1990 was as good, if not better, than Match Game in the 70s and 80s.
Perfectly sane take. It might be because GSN and Buzzr's shown it continuously for 30 years, but I'm good on my MG7x/PM fix. It's not even because some of the humor or Gene's/the panelists' behavior aged like milk; I'm just burned out on that version of the show.
MG90 on the other hand? Buzzr did a marathon of the show last summer and the few eps. I watched was the most MG I'd seen prolly since Baldwin's version ended. Dunno if it's on my "came out a few years too early and a few too late" list, but it deserved longer than a year. Maybe CBS should've aired it?
I enjoy watching MG'90 -- it was better than the later years of Rayburn's MG, when they were heavily editing the gameplay (aka the "answer writing" portions).
But I think the main reason Shafer's.version stands out was that it was a hell of a lot better than the MGHSH version. The set didnt look so cheap and the caliber of celebrities was much better.
And after all thse years, the Match Up rounds are finally starting to grow on me...
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And after all thse years, the Match Up rounds are finally starting to grow on me...
It was a departure, but I thought it fit in well.
I'd probably put the Shafer version just above the Baldwin version. (another hot take: I thought the Baldwin version was pretty well done, thought it got gimmicky a little bit near the end) Yes, '7x/PM would forever remain as the peak of "Match Game", but I agree with BFG......across the 2 main game show channels, they've just been a constant presence for years.
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'7x/PM would forever remain as the peak of "Match Game", but I agree with BFG......across the 2 main game show channels, they've just been a constant presence for years.
This is likely my answer. Tonight, I decided to test Mike's theory by picking out a Ross Shafer episode from YouTube, and had to skip the first two I found. The first, because Fred Travalena was in seat one AND Rip Taylor was subbing for Charles (why mess with the chemistry for my test purposes?)...the second, become Bruce Baum was on the panel (woof). I ended up settling for Fred anyway, as the next show in the queue had him joined by Vicki & Marcia Wallace. The episode was very, very good.
But my memory of watching the show day after day, when GSN last had it on, was that the star chemistry was very uneven. Had they settled on some genuine regulars, the show might have left an even better impression on me. I would have loved Vicki to join Charles, for one. Brad Garrett or Ronn Lucas were good in their own ways for me, as well.
-Jason
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This might be crazy talk but Match Game in 1990 was as good, if not better, than Match Game in the 70s and 80s.
MG90 on the other hand? Buzzr did a marathon of the show last summer and the few eps. I watched was the most MG I'd seen prolly since Baldwin's version ended. Dunno if it's on my "came out a few years too early and a few too late" list, but it deserved longer than a year. Maybe CBS should've aired it?
From what I've seen, Michael Brockman was determined to shore up ABC's non-soap lineup with games since The Home Show regularly came in third. I've read that the affiliates were vehemently opposed to it and Shafer's MG suffered with poor clearances as a result, giving it no real shot at success. It's amazing it ran as long as it did. I know Ross said there would be news "soon" about the show being on another network, but I think that may have been simply wishful thinking.
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Perfectly sane take. It might be because GSN and Buzzr's shown it continuously for 30 years, but I'm good on my MG7x/PM fix. It's not even because some of the humor or Gene's/the panelists' behavior aged like milk; I'm just burned out on that version of the show.
In a lot of ways I agree with you, but for me, watching it every day was almost like comfort food. By no means did I have every show memorized, so quite frequently I recognized the contestants but couldn't remember who won. In recent years GSN has aired almost the entire CBS version (with the exception of '73, which I haven't seen in a while), but it's been quite a while since I've seen the syndicated version, or PM. I kind of miss is every day at 1.
Having said that, in rewatching these episodes a few times now, I have noticed things I didn't before - such as how full of himself Rayburn seemed at times, plus all the kissing that they probably couldn't get away with today.
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Addressing something Jason said, chemistry with a consistent panel would have helped, but it seems like they had a healthy stable of celebs--Vicki, Edie McClurg, Marcia Wallace, Betty White, Khrystyne Haje, Brad Garrett, Ronn Lucas (and friend!), CNR, even people like Joe Alaskey, Bill Kirchenbauer, and Bruce Baum. (Sorry Jason, Bruce Baum is an acquired taste.)
To Brandon's points, having seen MG 7x/PM/syndicated reruns for over 3 decades is a bit much and a change of pace is welcome. Maybe my opinion is a case of recency bias. Maybe it's because the last time I remember MG 90 airing 5+ times a week for any decent period of time was on GSN in 2001-02.
Maybe it's due to some parts of the 70s version and Gene's schtick aging badly. Maybe it's me being glad to see a show that I got to see a handful of times, when there was no school, the alignment of the stars was just right, and the weather complied, and even then, reception on my B&W TV was, at best, meh.
Match-Up was enough of a deviation from the norm that it worked well within the format.
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I've been trying to keep up with Buzzr's deluge of Match Game '90. It's been fun to see the show get into a groove, and Ross certainly grew more comfortable with his role. As he becomes more willing to inject his own comments, much of his humor is dry, wry, and understated. I appreciate him more watching so many at once and appreciate his style. However, by watching so many at once...
I think they went for the sex and Clinton jokes too often.
I've seen this bandied about in the years afterward, but this week has a grand total of one round of Clinton references. In the episodes that have surfaced on YouTube, it isn't prevalent there, either. Either way, it's 1998 - he's in the zeitgeist. I don't see anyone giving CBS's Match Game any flak for joking about Richard Nixon and Howard Cosell.
...this is a quote from a thread about Match Game '98. It becomes quickly apparent that Roseanne Barr is the target du jour, with multiple questions about her/questions where she's the "obvious" answer in a week. But again, it's curious to me that it never really comes up in discussions of this series.
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It becomes quickly apparent that Roseanne Barr is the target du jour
It was roughly 10 days after MG90 premiered that she mangled the Star-Spangled Banner and grabbed her crotch...I do remember that incident being a question.
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It becomes quickly apparent that Roseanne Barr is the target du jour
It was roughly 10 days after MG90 premiered that she mangled the Star-Spangled Banner and grabbed her crotch...I do remember that incident being a question.
Also Roseanne had just finished its 2nd season the previous spring. Ratings-wise it went from #2 to #1, switching positions with The Cosby Show from the year before.
So even if there weren't Roseanne questions, there were certainly going to be Roseanne questions.
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So even if there weren't Roseanne questions, there were certainly going to be Roseanne questions.
I'm well aware of Roseanne's place in pop culture at that time. My point is that I see a parallel to Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky questions on Match Game '98, but only one gets criticism for doing it.
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Nixon questions and Howard Cosell questions I get and Nixon Watergate questions were completely fair game in the Zeitgeist. I just never liked it when Patty Deutsch gave answers attacking Nixon family members which came off as totally mean-spirited no matter what your political beliefs. Bash Nixon, but leave his family which suffered a great deal alone.
One of the most obscure topical events I remember coming up on Match Game happened in 76 when there was at least one question in the period when Evel Knievel got into trouble with the law for assaulting someone with a baseball bat (and thus the Evel Knievel question was designed for the answer "baseball bat". The contestant needless to say didn't get it)
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Your show is doomed if the title contains the word "Machine."
Not The George Michael Sports Machine.
"The George Michael Sports Machine" was not a game show.
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"Double Dare" was Goodson-Todman's best short-lived show. "Mindreaders" and "Showoffs" tie for last place.
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The 1990 Fun House looks more fun to run through than any Double Dare obstacle course configuration.
Unless you go second and you get to watch your partner get swallowed up by the tubular tunnel for 90 seconds.
Codicil: College Mad House had the better rules for the house run, with each team member getting 30 seconds each to grab as many tags as they could rather than having to come back out after grabbing three.