The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: SRIV94 on July 27, 2004, 11:00:46 AM
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For those unaware, Roeper writes columns for the CHICAGO SUN-TIMES which are far removed from his other role as a movie reviewer on EBERT & ROEPER. Today's column focuses on a subject that we're pretty familiar with:
Even Super Brains Can Be Made To Look Like Airheads (http://\"http://www.suntimes.com/output/roeper/cst-nws-roep27.html\")
Doug
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Interesting how ready Mr. Roeper is to give away other people's money. Wonder if ten percent of his own income goes to pediatric cancer? Maybe it does, at least in a generous year.
I'm not a Mormon and I don't play one on teevee. But it's odd how often Ken's religion pops up in these articles, usually in a disapproving way. Roeper at least keeps the frown under control. That ESPN idiot went outright bigoted with his remark about a "Mormon assassin."
Yes, Ken has announced his intention to tithe a tenth of his winnings to the church. So I guess the topic is fair game for comment. But if he were, say, Catholic or mainline Protestant or Jewish or non-religious, would the subject keep coming up?
Off-topic note: the "Mormon assassin" slur from the ESPN jerk is a painful reminder for me of the oddly similar slur expanded to enormous length in the very first Sherlock Holmes story, A Study in Scarlet. I'm a devout Sherlockian (though I don't tithe) and the ugly religious bigotry in Conan Doyle's first Holmes saga has always been an embarrassment.
There is a silver lining. Conan Doyle visited Salt Lake City late in life and was generally well-received. By then he was getting untold grief for his own spiritualist beliefs, so maybe he had learned the virtues of religious tolerance. A Mormon account of the visit:
http://www.adherents.com/lit/article_Doyle.html (http://\"http://www.adherents.com/lit/article_Doyle.html\")
I doubt that the ESPN goof was aware of any of this when he tossed off his nasty phrase. I doubt he's aware of much of anything except the size of his paycheck, and how it compares unfavorably to Ken's winnings.
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I saw the article but didn't see it as condescending as far as Mormons go.
As far as any general condescending tone towards the Mormons, two possibilities come to mind: either 1) the writer, in general, is quite condescending against all religions (though most notably against any Christian denomination) or 2) the writer is a "mainline Protestant or Catholic" and sees the Mormons as a cult.
I'm just explaining, not giving an opinion.
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Jul 27 2004, 03:29 PM\'] That ESPN idiot went outright bigoted with his remark about a "Mormon assassin." [/quote]
Well, Ken is Mormon and he is "murdering" his fellow contestants. So, what's the problem? How is that a slur?
BTW, here's the exact quote...
"I'm obsessed with the Jeopardy Guy. Watching this Mormon assassin emerge as the MJ of nerds has been the highlight of my summer."
If he was a bigot, I seriously doubt he'd ENJOY watching him every night.
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[quote name=\'Lemonjello\' date=\'Jul 27 2004, 04:16 PM\'] [quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Jul 27 2004, 03:29 PM\'] That ESPN idiot went outright bigoted with his remark about a "Mormon assassin." [/quote]
Well, Ken is Mormon and he is "murdering" his fellow contestants. So, what's the problem? How is that a slur?
BTW, here's the exact quote...
"I'm obsessed with the Jeopardy Guy. Watching this Mormon assassin emerge as the MJ of nerds has been the highlight of my summer."
If he was a bigot, I seriously doubt he'd ENJOY watching him every night. [/quote]
As far as I'm concerned, "ESPN" and "idiot" go hand-in-hand anymore. The writer probably should have chosen his paradox [probably not the right word form] slightly more carefully.
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Among other things the Sports Jerk writes:
"Yes, he's a smarmy know-it-all with the personality of a hall monitor, the kind of guy everyone hides from at a Christmas party."
"...the JG stared into the camera like Stephen A. Smith, playing up the drama before breaking into an exaggerated Dr. Evil smile when the correct response was revealed. As always, the Sports Gal summed up everyone's feelings: 'I hope he gets eaten by a tiger.'"
"Will the JG ever lose? I see it ending like Gagne's save streak -- a close game, then some sort of fluke and everyone standing around in disbelief. Either that, or one of the other contestants pummels him to death. 'I can't even look at him anymore,' the Sports Gal hissed last week. 'His face is so punchable.' But isn't that the point? We need villains, even if they come in the form of a wispy computer geek."
It was a real love letter to Ken. The "Mormon assassin" phrase was meant exactly as it sounded, a slur. Now Sports Jerk would have thought very, very long and very, very hard about writing "black assassin" or "Jewish assassin" in a column that trashed and trashed and trashed a black or Jewish contestant. He knows what happened to Limbaugh in Disneyland.
But it was a free shot at the Mormons. Sports Jerk likes nothing better than a free shot at somebody, as anyone who's glanced at his columns will agree.
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Thank God, Casey. I was starting to worry that we were beginning to agree with each other on these last couple threads, and then you post this tripe about Bill Simmons and put my mind at ease that maybe Hell isn't freezing over after all.
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Think of all the college professors and researchers and trivia nuts who have waited all their lives to be a contestant on "Jeopardy!" -- only to find themselves facing off against a phenom who makes them feel as outmatched as Danny DeVito in a height contest.
Does THAT strike close to home!
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Jul 27 2004, 01:29 PM\'] But it's odd how often Ken's religion pops up in these articles, usually in a disapproving way. [/quote]
What I'd like to know is how is one's religion fair game
to ANY topic in game shows?
And it's funny that so many folks have said his religion
isn't one of the "mainstream" religions... Mormonism
ISN'T Christian? Do folks have any clue what they're talking
about? Take a look at the name of his church (for those that
DON'T know, it's The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints).
I challenge ANYONE on this board to show me a religion
that has the very words: JESUS CHRIST in the title and
further tell me that religion ISN'T Christian!
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Makes my day (although it's no surprise) that clemon79 agrees with Sports Jerk. He says he was worried? I was downright petrified about agreeing with him too much.
And no, I wasn't reading Mormonism out of mainstream anything, and I'm honestly sorry if my comments sounded that way.
Final remark on the subject: it's not surprising that losers like Sammons rip winners like Ken Jennings. Losers have been known to say nasty things about winners since there was losing and winning.
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Jul 27 2004, 08:16 PM\'] I wasn't reading Mormonism out of mainstream anything, and I'm honestly sorry if my comments sounded that way.
Final remark on the subject: it's not surprising that losers like Sammons rip winners like Ken Jennings. Losers have been known to say nasty things about winners since there was losing and winning. [/quote]
Casey,
I wasn't directing my previous thoughts to you or anyone
on the board. I hope you didn't take it that way. It's the
MEDIA I'm disgusted with...
I was just wondering WHY we hear the SAME
report and familiar "newsflashes" about Ken and
his religion ALL the time. I mean, hasn't the press
gone over Ken's religion 1,000x already? Or do they
have some wild desire to make sure we ALL have it
etched into our memory?
On a similar note, it's interesting to note that Ray
Combs was a Mormon as well. Now, how many times
did the public dwell on THAT aspect of his life ... OVER and
OVER and OVER??????
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[quote name=\'MyCapableAssistant\' date=\'Jul 27 2004, 08:36 PM\'] [quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Jul 27 2004, 01:29 PM\'] But it's odd how often Ken's religion pops up in these articles, usually in a disapproving way. [/quote]
What I'd like to know is how is one's religion fair game
to ANY topic in game shows?
And it's funny that so many folks have said his religion
isn't one of the "mainstream" religions... Mormonism
ISN'T Christian? Do folks have any clue what they're talking
about? Take a look at the name of his church (for those that
DON'T know, it's The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints).
I challenge ANYONE on this board to show me a religion
that has the very words: JESUS CHRIST in the title and
further tell me that religion ISN'T Christian! [/quote]
Sadly, even though it does indeed say that in the name, it is not considered part of the Christian religion. The Mormon beliefs are actually different than Christians. And the addition of The Book Of Mormon doesn't exactly help their cause either.
Two New Testament passages bear this out. One, where Jesus says that many will come in His name claiming to be from Him, when in fact they're not. And two, in the last few verses of Revelation, it talks about if you add to this Book (in this case, The Bible) you will add to your curses in Heaven, and if you subtract, God will erase your name from the Lamb's Book Of Life.
Then again, Islam claims "Abrahamic" roots, but their religion is run about the same way as the Mormons, except by some accounts, they promote violence where Mormons don't.
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Jul 27 2004, 07:16 PM\'] Final remark on the subject: it's not surprising that losers like Sammons rip winners like Ken Jennings. Losers have been known to say nasty things about winners since there was losing and winning. [/quote]
Yeah, Simmons is a real loser. He makes a fine living writing three columns a week out of his home.
What do you do for a living?
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Casey, I wasn't directing my previous thoughts to you or anyone on the board. I hope you didn't take it that way. It's the MEDIA I'm disgusted with...
No problem. I just made a comment about "mainline" Protestantism and thought you might have taken it wrong. Nice to know there was nothing to worry about.
Let's see, what else...oh, I'm an actuary, in case anybody's really interested. It's been a good living for 25+ years now. Well, studying for the tests wasn't fun but I lived to tell the story.
Before that I was a Peace Corps volunteer. Before that I was a college student. Before that...aw, forget about it.
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[quote name=\'sshuffield70\' date=\'Jul 27 2004, 09:27 PM\'][/quote]
The Mormon beliefs are actually different than Christians.
Truer words were never spoken! I agree with you 1,000%!!
Let's see, I believe Mormons DO have different beliefs than most
"Christians..."
For starters, I don't believe they drink, smoke, do drugs, and MOST
of them never curse... (mostly!)
To comment on your Two New Testament passages, I appreciate
the Sunday School lesson ;-) If I may ask, can you please direct
me to the one which tells of Jesus and His Apostles heading off to the
nearest bar on a Friday evening after work? ;-)
Chris, please forgive me for bringing this subject SO OFF topic. I'm
done with it now, let them talk amongst themselves.
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Jul 27 2004, 08:54 PM\'] Let's see, what else...oh, I'm an actuary, in case anybody's really interested. It's been a good living for 25+ years now. Well, studying for the tests wasn't fun but I lived to tell the story.
[/quote]
Congratulations. I'm sure it's a wonderful and rewarding occupation.
Personally, I'd rather work for a company that sends me to the Super Bowl on their dime and only expects a few columns in return. But I guess that's what losers do for a living.
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Not much of football fan. Can't remember the last time I watched a complete game on television. I only watch the Super Bowl a few minutes at a time on teevee. Now if they want to send me to the World Series...
Kinda funny, but one of those "jobs almanac" books has occasionally rated actuary as the number one job in the country. Wouldn't you know, actuaries have dissected and criticized the methodology used for the rankings.
To give this discussion a thin veneer of relevance, actuaries have a strange tendency to show up on game shows. Several occupied the hot seat opposite Regis, for instance. (I'm happy to report that all reached at least 32K.) Even little old moi appeared on It's Academic in the Mesozoic era.
Maybe that's because the actuarial exams form the hardest, longest, trickiest quizzer anybody could ever want to play. Nobel laureate Milton Friedman wrote that the actuarial exams were by far the toughest tests he ever faced. They haven't gotten any easier since. So if you can confront those hyper-quizzers, why not try a game show?
And I have to give Sammons his due. I actually agreed with some of a previous column that he wrote about Pyramid and Match Game. I even agreed when he criticized Dick Clark for his unbearable post mortems on Pyramid.
But here's the thing. Clark's been in the public eye for centuries, er, decades. He's very used to small-bore sniping from obscurities like Sammons (or me). Even if he read Sammons' (or my) criticism, which I very seriously doubt, he would just let the water roll off his back.
Ken Jennings is different. He's a civvie not at all used to the kind of public, childish, really out-of-line bashing administered by Sammons. I mean, what is Sammons' problem that he has to pick on Ken in such an obnoxious, adolescent way? Sammons himself comes off as a tinpot-dictator, hall-monitor type that you'd want to avoid at a Christmas party or any other kind of party.
I'm not without sin here, of course. I'm bashing Sammons pretty good myself. But at least he posted a nasty column that warranted the bashing, right down to the "Mormon assassin" stinker. What has Ken done to deserve Sammons' venom? Nothing except win a lot of Jeopardy games.
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The Ken Jennings story has so many similarities to something we discussed a long time ago. Just like guys like Van Doren were a boost to an American spirit suffering from Cold War fears, some people need Jennings' win streak as a pill to get out of the "all we hear is everything about America is rotten" blues. He's a reminder we have a few good things going for us here, too, even if our politicians have messed us up in the eyes of most the world. Remember - we're smart, we're strong, and our world can lick your world! Where's YOUR Ken Jennings? Misplaced priorities, to be sure..as someone pointed out, there are no "Great Disease Curers of the World" collectible action figure sets, and they've done more for us than any athlete. Probably another reason his religion is brought up - both good and bad - is the image that having a religion is part of being a good American. Having been a Christian radio DJ for many, many years, I've seen and heard both good and ugly things done with the name Jesus Christ tacked on them. A religion/denomination is somebody's road map that is supposed to lead you to a relationship with God. The relationship is supposed to be the goal, but too often religious doctrine becomes the substitution of the goal. As a former Mormon, I know. No one religion has God 100% figured out - if we were that smart, we wouldn't need Him. What we can't control, we hate. What we try to understand, we accept, even if we don't always agree. Religion will always be a hot topic for those reasons. If you'll forgive my saying so, it's because we are free to share our thoughts here as long as we're civil and try to help each other out, this board is a great place to be.
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If you're going to continue this ridiculous blathering (especially going to the well with the "Mormon assassin" bit again...if you STILL think that's anything but a comment on his dominance over his opponents, then you're simply cracked in the head), you should at least pay him the courtesy of spelling his name right. His name is Bill SIMMONS.
And if you knew the first thing about him (and it's clear you're not at all a regular reader, which is probably just as well), you would realize that he's actually paying Ken about the highest compliment he can when he refers to him in the same "breath" as Michael Jordan, Joe Dimaggio, and Sandy Koufax. But, you know, let's not let context get in the way of a good rant, right?
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Sorry about the misspelled name. But a thought experiment...
Ken Jennings wins his 40th game. He turns to one of his hapless opponents and says: "You're a smarmy know-it-all with the personality of a hall monitor. That's why everybody hides from you at the Christmas party."
Ken wins his 45th game. He tells one of the vanquished: "I can't even look at you any more. Your face is just so punchable. I have this fantasy about another contestant pummeling you to death."
Ken hits the big 5-0. He tells the poor sap alongside him: "It would be nice if a tiger ate you."
Ken score his century. He calls one of the defeated, whose name is Epstein and who's wearing a yarmulke: "The Jewish assassin."
You'd be the first on this board to post about that jerk Jennings and what an obnoxious twit he is to think these kinds of comments are funny or even acceptable. And you'd be right.
Back to the real world. SIMMONS (again, sorry for the misspelling) says exactly these same things about Jennings. You defend him, even though Jennings hasn't said anything the least bit objectionable in any of his Jeopardy appearances, and he's done nothing to deserve Simmons' insults. I don't care if Simmons compares him to every sports legend who's ever produced a drop of sweat. It doesn't make the insults any funnier or more acceptable.
This thread is closed as far as I'm concerned. I'll let you have the last blast.
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[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Jul 28 2004, 09:55 AM\'] Ken score his century. He calls one of the defeated, whose name is Epstein and who's wearing a yarmulke: "The Jewish assassin."
This thread is closed as far as I'm concerned. I'll let you have the last blast. [/quote]
No need. Your continued delusion and insistence on playing the "religious slur" card prove, as usual, that you refuse to engage in this discussion with anything remotely approaching rational thought.
Believe me when I tell you I have no problems leaving this at an "agree to disagree" standpoint. In fact, I think a few of the planets just realigned a little bit.
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In response to Casey's many posts in this thread, anyone who would bother to spell Bill Simmons name as Sammons as many times as you did and refer to him as the Sports Jerk, is obviously doing it to get a rise out of the Sports Guy's Fans.
I am one of his loyal readers and I think your bashing of him is a little uncalled for. While Mormon Assassin might not have been the best wording, Im sure no ill will was meant by it. Steering this back on topic, the Sports Guy (as you did mention) has made numerous references to game shows over the years and this is no different. The guy is writing his column to get laughs, not to comment on Ken's religion.
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[quote name=\'Rastaub\' date=\'Jul 28 2004, 04:07 PM\'] I am one of his loyal readers and I think your bashing of him is a little uncalled for. While Mormon Assassin might not have been the best wording, Im sure no ill will was meant by it. Steering this back on topic, the Sports Guy (as you did mention) has made numerous references to game shows over the years and this is no different. The guy is writing his column to get laughs, not to comment on Ken's religion. [/quote]
To dovetail Robert's point--back in the days when I actually watched the NBA (like when Chicago actually had an NBA team), I seem to recall a number of instances where erstwhile TNT studio host Ernie Johnson Jr. (himself from what I understand a very devout religious man) would refer to then-Philadelphia 76er Shawn Bradley as the "Stormin' Mormon" (Bradley, like Ken Jennings, a BYU alumnus). I always chuckled at the reference and moved on with my life, as I always had the sense that Johnson was using it for humor (granted I'm not a Mormon). I never saw anything derogatory in either Johnson's studio babble or Simmons' columns that would indicate otherwise. As always, YMMV.
Doug