The Game Show Forum

The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: SamJ93 on September 21, 2004, 12:23:17 PM

Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: SamJ93 on September 21, 2004, 12:23:17 PM
...just plain suck?

I mean, if you look at a show like TPiR, not only is their main theme very memorable, but even their prize cues (well, most of the older ones, anyway) have very clear melodies that one can definitely remember if they hear it often enough, plus a fairly complex structure musically.

Nowadays, it seems most "themes" consist of a drum machine with a few cheesy synths placed on top...repeating the same four bland, melody-less measures over and over again.  Of course, there are some exceptions (Millionaire and H2 come to mind), but by and large most new shows or revivals (Pyramid, and Wheel post-1998 are the most blatant examples) just have awful music!

What happened here?  Have all the good composers taken up other projects?  Or can no one be bothered to put any effort into "frivolous" things like music, in this era of TV as an advertising business first, entertainment second?

--Sam
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: Matt Ottinger on September 21, 2004, 12:30:36 PM
That's similar to the question, "Why are there no great TV theme songs anymore?"  Sure, there are still a few, but most dramatic and comedic shows have no more than a five or ten second stinger to identify the show rather than the old minute-long ballads.  TV marches on.

Nostalgia plays a role as well.  In general, especially when it comes to game shows, the stuff you remember from your childhood is always "better" than the newer stuff.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: reason1024 on September 21, 2004, 12:39:37 PM
Is the "stinger" trend primarily due to increased demand for advertising time, costs of developing the music, or the risk that the theme won't be good?

All the fairly modern themes I can think of that I like belong to cartoons -- Futurama, Family Guy, Teen Titans.

On a similar note, I was humming the beginning of Press Your Luck's theme the other day in the yard, and somehow I turned it into Tic Tac Dough...!?!  Did game show themes used to fall mostly into a common "style" with similar hooks or devices?  I'm not musically inclined, so I don't know what the right words to describe these things would be.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: itiparanoid13 on September 21, 2004, 01:33:03 PM
Yeah, there haven't been great themes in a while.  The best theme in a while IMO is Russian Roulete, but the synthesized themes are apparently easier to make.  Not only that, most themes are just one tiny piece of music looped over and over.  In my books, Craig Stuart Garfinkle is the best TV theme composer this decade.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: cmjb13 on September 21, 2004, 03:11:34 PM
Maybe because Mr. Kalehoff's music is just so good, there aren't many Kalehoff's in this world.

I'm sure cost plays a factor in that if you want a good piece of music, you will have to pay more.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: Chief-O on September 21, 2004, 04:00:31 PM
>> Maybe because Mr. Kalehoff's music is just so good, there aren't many Kalehoff's in this world.
And that's probably literally too. :) Of course, though, his workload these days is mostly news and sports themes [Monday Night Football, World News Tonight, Nightly Business Report, etc]. The same can be said for Score Productions, although I've read that they still do the occasional TPIR cue. So, basically, most of those who DID themes in the "old days" probably aren't doing them anymore [either because they're retired, deceased, or just not doing game show music anymore], and the folks doing them now are either newbies in the business, or new to game shows.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: cmjb13 on September 21, 2004, 04:25:13 PM
[quote name=\'Chief-O\' date=\'Sep 21 2004, 04:00 PM\'] The same can be said for Score Productions, although I've read that they still do the occasional TPIR cue. [/quote]
 Some of the recent TPIR score cues definitely have an outdated feel to them (80's).

You can pick out most of them if you listen carefully.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: urbanpreppie05 on September 21, 2004, 05:10:07 PM
Quote
Nostalgia plays a role as well. In general, especially when it comes to game shows, the stuff you remember from your childhood is always "better" than the newer stuff.

Yep. It's was definately the case when Price had its new cues. Some of them (epecially the $1M car cues) sounded good, but one thing I kept seeing were remarks like "That shouldn't have been there" or "Big Banana's sounds better there."

Hmm. Different Strokes, i guess.

BTW, I actually like the current WOF theme, yet hate the Jeopardy! theme.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: Ian Wallis on September 22, 2004, 09:21:50 AM
I'm wondering if it's because so many shows have "squeezed back" credits these days that you don't get to hear the theme anyway, so maybe they figure they don't need more than a few drum beats, etc. since most of it would go unheard.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: Clay Zambo on September 22, 2004, 10:05:13 AM
I dunno, but it seems to me that much pop music today is comprised of a drum machine looping with some synths on top, so why wouldn't TV music follow the trend.  TPiR has always had a uniquely rich musical palette, probably due as much to the taste of its first music director as to anything else.  Mr. K's compositions are terrific, no question, but they wouldn't have made air if they'd been rejected by Mike Malone.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: BrandonFG on September 22, 2004, 11:19:11 AM
[quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 09:05 AM\'] I dunno, but it seems to me that much pop music today is comprised of a drum machine looping with some synths on top, so why wouldn't TV music follow the trend.  TPiR has always had a uniquely rich musical palette, probably due as much to the taste of its first music director as to anything else.  Mr. K's compositions are terrific, no question, but they wouldn't have made air if they'd been rejected by Mike Malone. [/quote]
 Exactly, just like a lot of themes of the late-70s/early-80s had a disco sound to them, and some 80s themes had a synthesized new wave feel. I'm sure if pop music actually sounded like something today, then game show themes would be more melodic.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: The Ol' Guy on September 22, 2004, 01:07:32 PM
I think Clay's pretty much on it. Times change, and the beautiful melodies of Gershwin and Porter are rapidly leaving the airwaves and are replaced by music where the rhythm and a hook phrase is more important than a melody (It has a good beat, I can dance to it, I'll give it a 92, Dick). Since producers want young demos, they're just playing up to what the crowd is listening to. It takes concentration and time to appreciate a well-crafted song/melody/theme, and the mass venue just isn't bothering.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: gtbecbp on September 22, 2004, 01:25:24 PM
IMHO, the Balderdash theme is one of the best in many years.  It's catchy, and uses real instruments!!!

Ben
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: tvwxman on September 22, 2004, 01:36:33 PM
[quote name=\'gtbecbp\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 12:25 PM\'] IMHO, the Balderdash theme is one of the best in many years.  It's catchy, and uses real instruments!!!

Ben [/quote]
 As opposed to imaginary instruments the other game shows use?
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: reason1024 on September 22, 2004, 03:13:41 PM
As opposed to music synthesizers, I expect.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: gtbecbp on September 22, 2004, 03:16:37 PM
[quote name=\'tvwxman\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 12:36 PM\'] [quote name=\'gtbecbp\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 12:25 PM\'] IMHO, the Balderdash theme is one of the best in many years.  It's catchy, and uses real instruments!!!

Ben [/quote]
As opposed to imaginary instruments the other game shows use? [/quote]
Quote
As opposed to imaginary instruments the other game shows use?

I think a clarifaction is in order!! :-)

What I mean by "real" instrument is something other than an electronic synthisizer or other electronic music-making device.  Balderdash has real horns, real bass, we haven't seen this in a while!!

Ben
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: Jimmy Owen on September 22, 2004, 03:57:55 PM
[quote name=\'reason1024\' date=\'Sep 21 2004, 11:39 AM\']
On a similar note, I was humming the beginning of Press Your Luck's theme the other day in the yard, and somehow I turned it into Tic Tac Dough...!?! [/quote]
 Something like that happened to me.  My local station never showed Super Password.  The only time I ever saw the show was when I was on vacation, from that one-time viewing the tune stuck in my head and I would occassionally think of it.  I was looking forward to getting GSN to watch the show and the theme was not exactly how I had hummed it all these years.  I realized that I had merged the SP theme in my head with the early-80's Top-40 tune "If the Love Fits," by Leslie Pearl.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: Matt Ottinger on September 22, 2004, 04:25:49 PM
[quote name=\'gtbecbp\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 03:16 PM\'] What I mean by "real" instrument is something other than an electronic synthisizer or other electronic music-making device.  Balderdash has real horns, real bass, we haven't seen this in a while!! [/quote]
 I attended a taping, and I can tell you I didn't see any musicians there.  With the advances in electronic reproduction in the last few years, can you say for certain that they used "real" horns and bass to make that sound?
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: SRIV94 on September 22, 2004, 04:41:19 PM
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 02:57 PM\'] I realized that I had merged the SP theme in my head with the early-80's Top-40 tune "If the Love Fits," by Leslie Pearl. [/quote]
 Now THERE'S one for the "Forgotten Oldie" crowd.  I think I've got that on one of those Barry Scott Lost 45 compilation CDs.

Amazing that one can get that on CD, but can't get the radio-friendly version of "Suite:  Judy Blue Eyes."  OK, I'm off the soapbox.

Doug
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: TimK2003 on September 22, 2004, 05:07:10 PM
[quote name=\'The Ol' Guy\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 12:07 PM\'] I think Clay's pretty much on it. Times change, and the beautiful melodies of Gershwin and Porter are rapidly leaving the airwaves and are replaced by music where the rhythm and a hook phrase is more important than a melody (It has a good beat, I can dance to it, I'll give it a 92, Dick). Since producers want young demos, they're just playing up to what the crowd is listening to. It takes concentration and time to appreciate a well-crafted song/melody/theme, and the mass venue just isn't bothering. [/quote]
 Same goes with why most commercials don't come up with original jingles or music anymore.

Most commercials nowadays seem to use songs from the 60's and 70's as their "jingle", either derived from the main part of the song (FF Survey Question: Name a commercial that used Marvin Gaye's "Let's Get It On" or The Human Beinz's "Nobody But Me" as their jingle), or used a minor part of a song for the meat of their jingle (Chevy's "I Like to dream" from Steppenwolfs Magic Carpet Ride).

What it all boils down to is that:

a) The newer Songwriter/Composer schools don't teach the old school ABCs on how to write or play original material anymore -- nowadays it's "write or compose a 10-second bit, lather, rinse, repeat.

b) Companies who are looking to use recorded music want it done for little or no expense.  To them, it's cheaper to buy the rights to an existing song, or if they can get a catchy tune performed by a high school junior with a good synthesizer for $200, then it's a deal!

And yes, the "Balderdash" theme has been the most entertaining new theme in quite a long time!!! That show in general has really grown on me, and some of the commeraderie between the celebs and Elaine is getting into MG'7X proportions.

Tim
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: FeudDude on September 22, 2004, 07:44:00 PM
I think that the problem with modern game show themes is that they lack melodies.  I don't mind a game show theme being done in more modern/popular musical style, but I want to be able to hum it.  I think that the Lingo season 3 theme (my favorite current-day theme not counting J! and TPIR) is a good example of how a modern game show theme should be done - it has an up-to-date techno-rock sound but it also has the kind of hummable melody that all game show theme should have.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: bricon on September 22, 2004, 07:53:15 PM
Quote
QUOTE (gtbecbp @ Sep 22 2004, 03:16 PM)
What I mean by "real" instrument is something other than an electronic synthisizer or other electronic music-making device. Balderdash has real horns, real bass, we haven't seen this in a while!! 

------------------
(quote from Matt O.)I attended a taping, and I can tell you I didn't see any musicians there. With the advances in electronic reproduction in the last few years, can you say for certain that they used "real" horns and bass to make that sound?

They are real horns and bass.  Several of the band members who recorded the music are from the Brian Setzer Orchestra.

Sound files and some photos of the composer as well as the musicians in the band can be found here. (http://\"http://www.whisperingwindmedia.com/balderdash.htm\")
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: gtbecbp on September 22, 2004, 09:52:43 PM
Quote
They are real horns and bass. Several of the band members who recorded the music are from the Brian Setzer Orchestra.

Thank you so much for finding that site!!  Not only did you prove me correct, those are incredible cuts!!

Ben
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: adamjk on September 22, 2004, 10:35:21 PM
They are indeed. Anyone catching the misspelling on the first cut? Bladerdash? lol
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: clemon79 on September 22, 2004, 10:37:56 PM
[quote name=\'adamjk\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 07:35 PM\'] They are indeed. Anyone catching the misspelling on the first cut? Bladerdash? lol [/quote]
 Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. You ever make a mistake, Adam?
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: adamjk on September 22, 2004, 10:48:10 PM
No, I didn't say I haven't ever screwed up. Lord knows we all have. I just found the misspelling funny, because of what it turned out to spell instead. If not for that, I likely wouldn't have mentioned it.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: clemon79 on September 22, 2004, 10:51:34 PM
Yeah. Bladerdash. That's a real laff riot.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: Clay Zambo on September 22, 2004, 11:38:23 PM
[quote name=\'gtbecbp\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 12:25 PM\'] IMHO, the Balderdash theme is one of the best in many years.  It's catchy, and uses real instruments!!! [/quote]
 It's not bad at all.  But Balderdash is a perfect example of the input a bright music supervisor can have.  The cue under the bonus game small prize is fine, but the cue under the grand prize is VIRTUALLY THE SAME THING.  Sorry to shout, but it makes me crazy.  I've just listened to both cues, in the clear, and they're not the same.  But the difference is quite subtle, especially with the announcer reading copy and the (real or fake?) applause over it; it might as well be the same cue.  A different piece of music--or even a more-differently arranged piece could add a great deal of excitement, especially to a show whose prize budget is not high.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: Ian Wallis on September 23, 2004, 09:06:24 AM
Quote
but it also has the kind of hummable melody that all game show theme should have.


Being an '80s top 40 music fan, I always like music that has a "hummable melody".  For me, the era of really good game show themes ended in the early '90s.  "Trump Card" and "To Tell The Truth", both from 1990, had the last really great themes.  I haven't really cared for too many of "Wheel of Fortune's" themes since then -- "Big Wheels"(from '75) and "Changing Keys"(from '83) at least have a "hook" and are enjoyable to listen to.  Even the '98 "Squares" theme doesn't quite do it for me - I don't dislike it, but it doesn't rank up there with the themes from the '70s and '80s.
Title: Question: Why does most new game show music...
Post by: TimK2003 on September 23, 2004, 10:29:47 PM
[quote name=\'gtbecbp\' date=\'Sep 22 2004, 12:25 PM\'] IMHO, the Balderdash theme is one of the best in many years.  It's catchy, and uses real instruments!!!

Ben [/quote]
 Oddly enough, I just played "Goody Two Shoes" by Adam Ant on my little ole' internet station, and the first thing I thought of when I heard the horns come in at the beginning was "Balderdash".  No wonder why I like the theme so much!