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Hoping not to earn another trip to the Free 4 All/TTD90 Room, I propose a new version of Pyramid:
Producer: Sony Pictures Television
Host: Donny Osmond
The Set: The 2002 set, but with a couple of changes. One of which is a display above the Winner's Circle; this display shows the amount played for, the amount earned in the Circle, and the player's grand total. The other is a display in front of the player desks; this displays the total (I'll explain), the word in play, and the logo in all other instances.
The Rules: Basic Pyramid, but instead of Front Game/Circle/Front Game/Circle, we have three rounds of six categories each. Instead of points, we use money; $50 in Round One, $100 in Round Two, and $150 in Round Three ($7300 max). The only way money is lost is for an illegal clue (I would use the standard "Cukoo" in this case).
Ties: These are rare, but possible. The '73 - 81/'02 - '04 Tie-Breaker is used, and the winner gets a bonus $5000.
Bonuses: There are of them, and any three can be used on any day: 24-7 (Same as the Big 7/7-11, worth $2400), Mystery 7, Gamble for Two Grand/Gamble for a Prize.
The Circle: Each time is worth $10,000, and we use these amounts (starting at bottom left, as always): $200-$250-$300-$500-$750-$1000.
Champs remain for five days.
The Tournament: We use the $100K formula. On tourney days, there are no bonuses except the $5000 tie-breaker. Also, we use points in the Main Game; 50 in R1, 100 in R2, 250 in R3. The Circle has no individual amounts, and an illegal clue or the clock running out wins nothing. The players for the next day are determined by having the odd man out face the player with the higher point score. If there is a tie, we flip a coin. Seeding for the tourney is done by have the two fastest Circle players (in standard play) face off first.
Note: If a tourney makes it to the last episode of the season, we use the classic Pyramid format. The two players scheduled to play that day play the first game (with one point per answer, and still no bonuses). The winner plays the Circle, with the standard values.
Scanarios (sp?):
The $100K is not won in the first Circle: The loser and odd man out play the second game.
The $100K is not won in the second Circle: The higher Circle score is bumped to $100,000. A tie will divide the money between the two who played the circle; in this case the odd man out gets $15,000.
The $100K is won in the first Circle: the other two play for $25,000, the odd man out in this instance gets $10,000.
The $100K is won in the second Circle: $20,000 for the runner-up, $10,000 for the odd man out.
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[quote name=\'golden-road\' date=\'Jan 10 2005, 03:07 AM\']Hoping not to earn another trip to the Free 4 All/TTD90 Room, I propose a new version of Pyramid: [/quote]
You'll earn it. Trust me.
Producer: Sony Pictures Television
Strike one.
Host: Donny Osmond
Strike two.
The Set: The 2002 set
Strike three. Yer out; and we haven't even touched upon the rest of your proposal. More points off for completely unoriginal "bonus" ideas. Additionally, I fail to see how awarding money versus points adds a great deal of content to the game. Save yourself the carpal tunnel next time--and don't type up another proposal.
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While I agree with the previous poster's assessment, I'll try to be a tad more constructive, with a minimum of real estate:
What does this proposal do that corrects the problems of the previous run?
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I find:
1) Mark's assessment worthless and insulting, both to the OP and to those of us who enjoy quality posts. If you're gonna tell 'em it sucks, tell 'em why, and you utterly failed to do that. Osmond wasn't a bad host, I don't care if the game is played in Ken Ober's basement if it's a good one, and the company signing the checks is irrelevant. Find something else to get out your frustrations on.
2) The front-game scoring hack interesting, although I don't like the idea of a player being ahead on money where they would not be on points. The game is elegant in its simplicity and doesn't need that.
3) The winner's circle scoring system smacking of Mo' Money. What was wrong with $50-$300? I always question any bonus game that sends a contestant away with more than a grand in consolation money.
4) The tournament disposable. Personally I think the tournament is a silly idea anyhow, although it did serve to create nail-biting Winner's Circle moments in the 80's, which was good. Taking it away if "you run out of season space" is a lot of crap. Don't do it at all if you can't do it right.
5) Parliboy correct. What does this fix? It sounds like it's adding more cooks to an already overworked soup.
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[quote name=\'Dsmith\' date=\'Jan 10 2005, 03:27 AM\'][quote name=\'golden-road\' date=\'Jan 10 2005, 03:07 AM\']Hoping not to earn another trip to the Free 4 All/TTD90 Room, I propose a new version of Pyramid: [/quote]
You'll earn it. Trust me.
Producer: Sony Pictures Television
Strike one.
Host: Donny Osmond
Strike two.
The Set: The 2002 set
Strike three. Yer out; and we haven't even touched upon the rest of your proposal. More points off for completely unoriginal "bonus" ideas. Additionally, I fail to see how awarding money versus points adds a great deal of content to the game. Save yourself the carpal tunnel next time--and don't type up another proposal.
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How did he get to Strike Three so quickly, please explain your reasons.
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[quote name=\'passwordplus\' date=\'Jan 10 2005, 03:30 PM\']How did he get to Strike Three so quickly, please explain your reasons.
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If I may interject here, the reason would be obvious to you if you had read all of the posts. He's proposing a 'new' version of Pyramid that would supposedly improve on the most recent edition. Try reading carefully next time and put two-and-two together before posting. In case you still don't understand, read further....
As for the 'proposal', what does it do? It leaves a lot of the stuff right as it was, so it looks an awful lot like the Osmond version (including keeping him behind the podium). I'm with Chris Lemon on his hosting gig. I thought he did justice to the role, and had the show lasted longer, I think he would have been very comparable to Dick Clark, much like Alex Trebek and Art Flemming (sp?) on J!.
Addressing the 'proposal' itself, I disagree with the Mo' Money argument on general principal, as I often do, but I do agree that the consolation money is a bit too generous. Kinda like the second bonus round on Chain Reaction -- $5,000 for getting all but one answer, with a $10,000 pot for getting that one extra answer? Hell, that's a loss that feels like a win! It made the game less exciting, and for that reason alone it needed to go.
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[quote name=\'golden-road\' date=\'Jan 10 2005, 03:07 AM\']The Rules: Basic Pyramid, but instead of Front Game/Circle/Front Game/Circle, we have three rounds of six categories each. Instead of points, we use money; $50 in Round One, $100 in Round Two, and $150 in Round Three ($7300 max). [/quote]
This part, more than anything else, loses me. First of all, I can't clearly picture what you're describing--is it three "main game" pyramids followed by one Winner's Circle each show? That seems like it would be about as popular as replacing the first "big board" round of Press Your Luck with two more question rounds.
Second, where is $7300 coming from? Is that a typo for $6300? (21 x $50 + 21 x $100 + 21 x $150)
Third, that seems like an insane amount of money to award in a Pyramid front game. (I think the $5K tiebreakers in the '80s were pushing it.) You're going to occasionally have people winning more than $10K just in the main game, when you factor in bonuses. And if the losers get to keep their totals, you've got even the worst players probably leaving with several thousand dollars.
There was nothing wrong with Pyramid--nothing a modern audience "just wouldn't accept" today. Hell, despite themselves, the producers of the most recent version weren't that far off. It don't need fixin'.
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The only needed changes are:
1) Guarantee the $100,000 given away to SOMEBODY. If it goes past the three days, then you cycle til somebody goes to the top of the Pyramid.
2) Less commercial time for more post-mortems a la the Clark version.
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[quote name=\'starcade\' date=\'Jan 10 2005, 09:28 PM\']The only needed changes are:
1) Guarantee the $100,000 given away to SOMEBODY. If it goes past the three days, then you cycle til somebody goes to the top of the Pyramid.
2) Less commercial time for more post-mortems a la the Clark version.
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Hear freakin' hear!
(Man, I hope I never say that again...)
Anyway, I agree that I had absolutely no problem with the most recent version of the game. The 6-in-20 was a heck of a new challenge, and it made trying to get the potentially easy 10K in the Winner's Circle worth it.
Even the consolation money in the Winner's Circle didn't phase me that much. Even if there WERE returning champs, the fact that the money went up to a $1500 non-win max only reflected inflation, and I don't have a problem with that whatsoever. Heck, you hope that if you don't win the whole thing, you can get something a little decent, and even that wasn't guaranteed until you got at least 4 out of 6.
I do confess I would have liked to have seen Osmond try a clue or two himself, too, after a loss in the WC. But these days, with the laws of syndication and commercial time growing every year, there's really no chance for it. *sigh* What are you gonna do...?
Pyramid WILL be back someday, I have faith, and there won't be any need to fix it beyond what it is now.
Now if only we could do something about Password...
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[quote name=\'starcade\' date=\'Jan 10 2005, 07:28 PM\']2) Less commercial time for more post-mortems a la the Clark version.
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One of the few shortcomings about Donny's hosting work was that he actively disliked the Clark post-mortems (he thought it caused bad feelings for the contestant to have the host saunter over and deliver the perfect answer after a heartbreaking loss), and I think it was at least in part his idea not to do them on the new show.
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Doesn't make said idea any less bad.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jan 10 2005, 09:56 PM\']One of the few shortcomings about Donny's hosting work was that he actively disliked the Clark post-mortems (he thought it caused bad feelings for the contestant to have the host saunter over and deliver the perfect answer after a heartbreaking loss), and I think it was at least in part his idea not to do them on the new show.
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Really... I'm surprised Donny would be so against it like that.
Personally, I would think (in gest, of course) that the only person he would've had to have worried about ripping him a new one if he interjected like that would have been Vicki Lawrence. Had to love whenever she had her mistake or wrong answer pointed out, because you were always guaranteed a wild response.
Ah, those were the days.
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I know a version of Pyramid that would work today. Bring the 1980's set back with the Music from the 70's version along with original host Dick Clark. The show would still kick ass even if Dick can only talk out of one side of his mouth.
I don't mean to be rude or crude... but it's the truth. Dick is so well loved and such a good host that I feel America would embrace him no matter what. Handicaps included.
John
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[quote name=\'Skynet74\' date=\'Jan 10 2005, 09:02 PM\'] I don't mean to be rude or crude...
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And yet, you manage it so fantastically.
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I was thinking about the comments responding to the amounts in the Circle, so how about this:
Main Game: R1-$50, R2-$75, R3-$100, for a max of $4725.
Winner's Circle: $100-$150-$200-$250-$300-$500. All but the top is an even $1000, all but the first subject is $1400.
In addition, insert a series of angled extensions on top of the Circle display, so it resembles the '73 - '92 Circle.
Finally, reduce the tie-breaker bonus to $2500.
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[quote name=\'golden-road\' date=\'Jan 11 2005, 03:03 AM\']I was thinking about the comments responding to the amounts in the Circle, so how about this:
[/quote]
Hold on.
So I can get a perfect score each time in the main game, and win $4725...and get all but 1 category right in bonus land and only win $3000?
Furthermore, you INFLATED the values of all other values; but you are giving tie-breaker winners $2500 less than 1985?
Keep trying.
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You're still gilding the lily. The great thing about Pyramid was that it didn't have all kinds of wacky scoring rules or tweaks for no reason. Most points wins. In the WC, either you get the big cash prize, or token consolation money up to $1,000. Not hard. Don't mess with that.
And having three 'front games' and one WC will lose more viewers than it will gain. The front game wasn't truly boring, but the Winner's Circle was just so damn good that it overpowered the first part. I sit through the front part knowing the WC is a few minutes away. Don't make people wait 20 minutes to get to the good part. They won't. Keep it to front/WC/front/WC.
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[quote name=\'golden-road\' date=\'Jan 11 2005, 01:03 AM\']I was thinking about the comments responding to the amounts in the Circle, so how about this:
Main Game: R1-$50, R2-$75, R3-$100, for a max of $4725.
Winner's Circle: $100-$150-$200-$250-$300-$500. All but the top is an even $1000, all but the first subject is $1400.
In addition, insert a series of angled extensions on top of the Circle display, so it resembles the '73 - '92 Circle.
Finally, reduce the tie-breaker bonus to $2500.
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Yeah. THAT fixes the broken stuff. Man, I didn't grok the concept of playing THREE FULL MAINGAMES before a Winner's Circle, but now that I see that is what you have in mind, I have to tell you that's the worst friggin' idea I've heard in my life.
Pyramid is ALL ABOUT the Winner's Circle. There is a reason IT is at the center of the stage and the maingame is played off to the right. (And the horrible breakage thereof, for the many and varied reasons we have addressed here over the couple years of the show, is the main reason for the show's failure, IMO.) The maingame is secondary to the Winner's Circle, it's just a mechanism used to find out who gets to play in it. You could do Rock-Paper-Scissors, and I don't think most Pyramid fans would mind. (And you'd get more WC's in a half-hour show!)
But no. Instead, you want us to sit through THREE FULL MAINGAMES, before someone goes to a WC that near as I can tell is still gonna be as broken as the one before it, because you're too busy fixing the SET instead of fixing the SHOW.
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I do confess I would have liked to have seen Osmond try a clue or two himself, too, after a loss in the WC. But these days, with the laws of syndication and commercial time growing every year, there's really no chance for it. *sigh* What are you gonna do...?
Is there any chance we're going to reach a limit? In each half-hour program there's only about 21 minutes worth of show now - how much further are we going to go? Won't the advertisers be happy until we reach 15-15? I'd like to think we're at the saturation point now...
Finally, reduce the tie-breaker bonus to $2500.
I never liked the $5000 bonus for a 21-21 tie. I think $1000 would have been more reasonable. The $5K bonus was half what the first trip to the Winners' Circle was worth - that's where the big money should have stayed.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jan 11 2005, 09:03 AM\']Is there any chance we're going to reach a limit? In each half-hour program there's only about 21 minutes worth of show now - how much further are we going to go? Won't the advertisers be happy until we reach 15-15? I'd like to think we're at the saturation point now...
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If the advertisers thought it was feasible, they would go for 0-30. The only reason shows exist is so that networks can make money off the commercials, and advertisers can make money from showing off the product. Personally, I think they should go with having each show being sponsored by one (or two) companies, i.e. Wheel of Fortune brought to you by Pepsi and Coca-Cola (hey, it could happen).
Tyshaun
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You all are missing the point. To hell with the scoring system; the front game was absolutely fine. I could live with the inflated WC values. I liked the concept of winning both WCs to qualify for the tournament.
What needed tweaking?
-The set. The Millionaire steel beams look is out, and was two years past its time when Pyramid debuted. Pyramid is not one of those "cold" game shows, and the set just looked silly.
-The camerawork. This is not MTV. Do they really think they need to move the camera around every 3 seconds? I honestly don't think a steady shot of the celeb/contestant team would've killed them. In the case of the WC, keep a tight shot of the two, and only move the camera when changing categories.
-The writing. The silly category names were funny on Win Ben Stein's Money, mainly because they were witty puns more than anything. The Pyramid categories were just trying too hard to get a cheap laugh. Even during the 70s and 80s, they were bad puns, but not overdone.
And don't even get me started on "What Donny Osmond's Podium Might Say" for the WC.
-Reviewing the material. Part of the fun of a word game like Pyramid is the spontaniety (sp?). Allowing the celebrities to review the material kills the mood, unlike on HSq.
As for the tournament, having it last three days and then saying, "Oh well, nobody went to the top twice, so we'll just say the lowest time wins...and that was (drumroll) George Elias!!!" Show over. Lame and rushed. I know a lot of this was because continuity, but that's crap IMO. I liked the idea of having the tourney winner make it to the top twice, and would've kept it at that. Why not win the tourney the same way you got in?
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Is there any chance we're going to reach a limit? In each half-hour program there's only about 21 minutes worth of show
It has always been thus. Your typical NBC game show of the '70s went like so:
28:25 TRT
6:00 Commercials
:42 Fee plugs
??? 317
You're down to almost 21 minutes right there.
Homework assignment: somebody get out a copy of P+ and time the 317 crawl, from the time it comes on screen with something like "The following suppliers" bla bla bla until the G-T tiltle.
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You all are missing the point. To hell with the scoring system; the front game was absolutely fine. I could live with the inflated WC values. I liked the concept of winning both WCs to qualify for the tournament.
What needed tweaking?
-The set. The Millionaire steel beams look is out, and was two years past its time when Pyramid debuted. Pyramid is not one of those "cold" game shows, and the set just looked silly.
-The camerawork. This is not MTV. Do they really think they need to move the camera around every 3 seconds? I honestly don't think a steady shot of the celeb/contestant team would've killed them. In the case of the WC, keep a tight shot of the two, and only move the camera when changing categories.
-The writing. The silly category names were funny on Win Ben Stein's Money, mainly because they were witty puns more than anything. The Pyramid categories were just trying too hard to get a cheap laugh. Even during the 70s and 80s, they were bad puns, but not overdone.
And don't even get me started on "What Donny Osmond's Podium Might Say" for the WC.
-Reviewing the material. Part of the fun of a word game like Pyramid is the spontaniety (sp?). Allowing the celebrities to review the material kills the mood, unlike on HSq.
This could be a chapter in a book entitled "How To Screw Up a Simple Game Show Format". You could also add:
- No need to truncate a perfectly good main game to 20 seconds.
- Celebrity bookings: celebrities are supposed to be at least somewhat recognizable to the viewing public.
- Don't book contestants who suck at the game. Emphasize game playing skills over booking attractive, unemployed actors under 40.
- Ditch the hokey bump shots. The set is butt-ugly to start with and the audience KNOWS it's Pyramid and they KNOW Donny is emceeing.
- Sound effects: get some real sound effects. Bell and buzzer always work better on a game show than "whoosh".
- Music: too bad this version didn't have any.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jan 11 2005, 05:09 PM\']
You all are missing the point. To hell with the scoring system; the front game was absolutely fine. I could live with the inflated WC values. I liked the concept of winning both WCs to qualify for the tournament.
What needed tweaking?
-The set. The Millionaire steel beams look is out, and was two years past its time when Pyramid debuted. Pyramid is not one of those "cold" game shows, and the set just looked silly.
-The camerawork. This is not MTV. Do they really think they need to move the camera around every 3 seconds? I honestly don't think a steady shot of the celeb/contestant team would've killed them. In the case of the WC, keep a tight shot of the two, and only move the camera when changing categories.
-The writing. The silly category names were funny on Win Ben Stein's Money, mainly because they were witty puns more than anything. The Pyramid categories were just trying too hard to get a cheap laugh. Even during the 70s and 80s, they were bad puns, but not overdone.
And don't even get me started on "What Donny Osmond's Podium Might Say" for the WC.
-Reviewing the material. Part of the fun of a word game like Pyramid is the spontaniety (sp?). Allowing the celebrities to review the material kills the mood, unlike on HSq.
This could be a chapter in a book entitled "How To Screw Up a Simple Game Show Format". You could also add:
- No need to truncate a perfectly good main game to 20 seconds.
- Celebrity bookings: celebrities are supposed to be at least somewhat recognizable to the viewing public.
- Don't book contestants who suck at the game. Emphasize game playing skills over booking attractive, unemployed actors under 40.
- Ditch the hokey bump shots. The set is butt-ugly to start with and the audience KNOWS it's Pyramid and they KNOW Donny is emceeing.
- Sound effects: get some real sound effects. Bell and buzzer always work better on a game show than "whoosh".
- Music: too bad this version didn't have any.
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And now, something a little different...
-I thought the new main game was better, albeit faster.
-The celebs, at least to me, were recognizable about 80% of the time, about the same as they were on the 80s Pyramid.
-Most contestants were good. If you had watched more than once, you could have seen some very good players.
-The set was fine. It fit the era of the time, just as game shows went through periods of pastels, earth tones, video walls, and primary colors.
-The music, if you could actually hear it, was decent. Too bad you couldn't hear it.
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[quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' date=\'Jan 11 2005, 03:55 PM\']-Most contestants were good. If you had watched more than once, you could have seen some very good players.
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I think Chris was referring to the celebrity partners. The only reason Hal Sparks was worth a damn was because they had him on fifteen thousand times to pimp Queer As Folk.
[quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' date=\'Jan 11 2005, 03:55 PM\']-The music, if you could actually hear it, was decent. Too bad you couldn't hear it.
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That was not music, that was a burbling electronic music bed. No hook whatsoever.
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[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jan 11 2005, 03:52 PM\']Homework assignment: somebody get out a copy of P+ and time the 317 crawl, from the time it comes on screen with something like "The following suppliers" bla bla bla until the G-T tiltle.
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Approximately 17 seconds (took two samples--one with Ludden and one with Kennedy, and both came out to roughly 17 seconds).
Doug
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I thought the new main game was better, albeit faster.
It wasn't faster, it was shorter. The players didn't play any faster.
I saw bad players on both the celebrity and civilian sides. Maybe we aren't thinking of the same episodes.
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Changes I would make:
1. Go back to the material and judging that we saw in the old days.
2. Returning champions. Most money in the WC wins the day, as in 1982-91.
3. Two celebs for five days a week, at least most of the time. (If ratings improve when you have a theme week but still have returning champions, I'm okay with it.)
4. To decrease the likelihood of ties, the values in the WC go to $100-200-300-400-500-600.
5. (This part is original.) A win in the WC is worth $1,000 for each point from the main game, excluding tie-breaker rounds, with round 3 played all the way through. For a perfect score of 18, you play for $25,000. The second trip to the WC is no different than the first. However, if you can get an automaker to give away a car for two perfect boards in one day, that would be a great addition.
If they made these changes, or even just the first four, I could forgive the technical aspects of the Osmond show. I'd even give Osmond a chance to rise to the level of the material.
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[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' date=\'Jan 12 2005, 01:29 AM\']4. To decrease the likelihood of ties, the values in the WC go to $100-200-300-400-500-600.[/quote]
That, um, wouldn't decrease the likelihood of ties. All you did was double the dollars--the ratios of scores would be unchanged.
I don't think Pyramid had a tremendous number of bad players, but it still had too many. If they take 10 seconds in the first round trying to convey a word with "um, that thing, (waves arms around)", their appearance should be edited out of the show and a replacement should be brought in.
(I wonder just what the show would've been like without the Winner's Circle "coaching", though.)
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If you truly want to discourage WC ties (something I didn't mind from the 80s shows) have the WC values increase 25-50-100-200-400-800. The only way you get a tie is if the two players get exactly the same boxes in their games.
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[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' date=\'Jan 12 2005, 01:29 AM\']However, if you can get an automaker to give away a car for two perfect boards in one day, that would be a great addition.
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I think $25,000 [or $50,000] is enough compensation without having to throw in a car as well.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' date=\'Jan 11 2005, 11:58 PM\']If you truly want to discourage WC ties (something I didn't mind from the 80s shows) have the WC values increase 25-50-100-200-400-800. The only way you get a tie is if the two players get exactly the same boxes in their games.
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But that effectively happened on the old show, too. How often did someone score $750 in such a way that didn't flip the first five boxes? Two, four-fifty, five, six, seven hundred and fifty dollars. That's how it happens.
I would wager that if you look back over every tie on the Clark shows in the 80's, the percentage of those ties that also had the contestants scoring a different combination of boxes would be so small as to not bother legislating over.
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I don't see Donny Osmond as the problem with The 21st Century Pyramid. He understood the game, didn't have any John Davidson-style foul-ups and truly seemed to be enjoying himself. If some of those celebs had been able to stay a full week instead of one day and gone, they could've eased into the game and become better players. How good were Terry Lester or Barry Jenner their first times out? But, boy, did they get great!!
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Jan 12 2005, 09:23 AM\']I don't see Donny Osmond as the problem with The 21st Century Pyramid. He understood the game, didn't have any John Davidson-style foul-ups and truly seemed to be enjoying himself. If some of those celebs had been able to stay a full week instead of one day and gone, they could've eased into the game and become better players. How good were Terry Lester or Barry Jenner their first times out? But, boy, did they get great!!
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Last nite I thought a little more about this, and realized that the one day thing was prolly part of the reason the show focused so much on the celebrities. The celebs only have the one day to play the game, and also showcase their latest projects. Had they stayed for a full week, there's a good chance that they could've stretched out all the comments for their TV show/movie/etc., instead of cramming it all into the half-hour.
I also wonder if they could've done 7 words/:30 if the celebs had stayed for the whole week.
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[quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jan 12 2005, 06:54 AM\']The celebs only have the one day to play the game, and also showcase their latest projects. Had they stayed for a full week, there's a good chance that they could've stretched out all the comments for their TV show/movie/etc., instead of cramming it all into the half-hour.
I also wonder if they could've done 7 words/:30 if the celebs had stayed for the whole week.[/quote]
Well, the celebs did do three episodes per sitting; we just didn't see them consecutively. And with commercial time the way it is these days, if you'd wanted to add a good minute and a half of game play, you'd have had to replace Donny Osmond with John Moschitta.
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And with commercial time the way it is these days, if you'd wanted to add a good minute and a half of game play, you'd have had to replace Donny Osmond with John Moschitta.
How many minutes of commercials did it have? More than six? If you got rid of the bumpers, the project plugs and abbreviated the end game language, there's plenty of time for 7 in 30.
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I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that the main game board reveals probably ate up a minute more air time than they ever did on a Clark version.
(Cut to them laughing! CUT TO THEM LAUGHING!!!)
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' date=\'Jan 12 2005, 04:45 PM\']I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that the main game board reveals probably ate up a minute more air time than they ever did on a Clark version.
(Cut to them laughing! CUT TO THEM LAUGHING!!!)
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"Describe to your partner these reasons we love Estelle Harris so darn much."
(Cut to Chris vomiting! CUT TO CHRIS VOMITING!!!)
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For my idea of a Pyramid revival:
- Let's revert the maingame back to 7-in-30. 6-in-20 REALLY made players rush, and if you got hung on one word, you were screwed for the rest of the subject. Not cool.
- Bring back the 7-11 and Mystery 7. In fact, I'd bring in the "Gamble for a Grand" bonus from Davidson Pyramid to give the game a little bit of a twist.
- If either team gets 21 points, give them $1,000 for doing so. And give them $1,000 more for whoever wins the tiebreaker presuming the score was 21-21, otherwise no bonus money awarded for winning tiebreakers.
- I'm not sure if I should keep the 80's amounts of 50-100-150-200-250-300 or if I should double them. Probably would be wiser to keep the original amounts.
- If a player fails to get to the top of the Pyramid the first time, but gets into the Winner's Circle the second time, they play for $15,000, not $25,000. (Or we could retain the Osmond format and let them go for $10,000 again.)
- Retain Bob Cobert's 80's theme. None of this non-sensical techno shit that stained the Osmond revival.
- Same with the set. The "Millionaire-style" set with suspenseful lights from the Osmond version is so 1999 and it just doesn't fit. Something more true-to-form to the 80's version would work just as well. And keep the monitors.
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[quote name=\'TonicBH\' date=\'Jan 12 2005, 08:31 PM\']For my idea of a Pyramid revival:
- Bring back the 7-11 and Mystery 7.
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You rang?
If we were to re-revive Pyramid, I'd keep it true but do a few things new. Not much that needed to be messed with so I'm being careful to perserve as much as I can.
- One more vote for 7 in 30. 7-11 in the first round, Mystery 7 in the second.
- Retain $5,000 bonus for 21-21 tie. ($5 large isn't as large as it was 20 years ago.)
- Have the show directed according to the Gargiulo/Burmester Stylebook: static shot of both players in the front game - all 30 seconds. 2 shots for WC: side shot of the players and the board shot.
- Revert SFX to real bell and buzzer (preferably the original buzzer from the '80s), and use the signature Bob Stewart Clock Sound for the Winner's Circle.
- Trilons are ol-skool but I like 'em. Although I could use monitors with a DVE effect to simulate the motion of turning trilons.
New twists:
- Bonus-in-a-bonus for Mystery 7: identifying the common bond wins $1,000 bonus, whether the team gets all 7 items or not.
- Winner's Circle values range from $100-$600.
- Have Ed Flesh do a new set based on his original.
- Modernize the Bob Cobert theme, a la Match Game '90.
- One announcer and one announcer only: Bob Hilton or Charlie O.
- And most importantly...
I'D BRING BACK THE CUCKOO!
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Personally, I didn't have a problem with 6-in-20. If you reinstated 7-in-30, and everybody got good at the game like they did during The $100,000 Pyramid, you'd start getting a lot of ties. Sure, you could reclaim the time needed to go back to 7-in-30 elsewhere in the show, but add a tiebreaker in there as well, and things are going to get a bit rushed.
I'm sure I'm in the minority on this, but I really didn't miss the cuckoo. (That's not to say that I liked their new illegal clue sound effect, mind you.) Playing a cuckoo sound effect on any TV program that isn't a kids' cartoon seems so dated. I mean, when was the last time you heard a cuckoo sound effect that wasn't coming out of a wooden clock?
--
Scott Robinson
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' date=\'Jan 12 2005, 12:47 AM\'][quote name=\'Jay Temple\' date=\'Jan 12 2005, 01:29 AM\']4. To decrease the likelihood of ties, the values in the WC go to $100-200-300-400-500-600.[/quote]
That, um, wouldn't decrease the likelihood of ties. All you did was double the dollars--the ratios of scores would be unchanged[snapback]71002[/snapback]
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No, not compared to the Clark era. I meant it would reduce the likelihood of ties compared to the values on Osmond's version (200-200-200-300-300-500). I doubled them because nowadays it would look really cheap to have returning champions routinely come back with less than $1,000.
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[quote name=\'TonicBH\' date=\'Jan 12 2005, 08:31 PM\']The "Millionaire-style" set with suspenseful lights from the Osmond version is so 1999 and it just doesn't fit. Something more true-to-form to the 80's version would work just as well.
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Funny how you mention that the set was "so 1999," and I agree with you. But IMO, the 80's set would look even more out of place; it was so 1982.
And another thing: the perfect-score bonus makes perfect sense. But I never understood the hefty $5K for 21-21 ties. Why reward only one team just because another team happens to do just as well?
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[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' date=\'Jan 13 2005, 12:28 AM\']
No, not compared to the Clark era. I meant it would reduce the likelihood of ties compared to the values on Osmond's version (200-200-200-300-300-500). I doubled them because nowadays it would look really cheap to have returning champions routinely come back with less than $1,000.
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When families don't win Fast Money on Karn Feud, their total for the day is routinely less than $1000.
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- If a player fails to get to the top of the Pyramid the first time, but gets into the Winner's Circle the second time, they play for $15,000, not $25,000. (Or we could retain the Osmond format and let them go for $10,000 again.)
That's something I never liked of the Osmond version. If you win both games in one show, you should get a shot at something extra. The '80s Clark version got it right - first game $10,000; win or lose, second game a total of $25,000.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jan 13 2005, 07:03 AM\']That's something I never liked of the Osmond version. If you win both games in one show, you should get a shot at something extra. The '80s Clark version got it right - first game $10,000; win or lose, second game a total of $25,000.
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I know this flies in the face of everything I have said about Mo Money Syndrome, but it wouldn't even kill me if on a syndicated Pyramid with no network limitations on winnings, if the first trip were worth $10K and the second trip in the same show were worth $25K regardless of whether the first trip were successful or not. Consider, to coin a baseball phrase: if you've won both games and the first WC, you're well on your way to the Pyramid equivalent of hitting for the cycle, right? So why not build it up, and give that contestant a shot at a big payday? You can even have a separate harder WC ready to lock and load for that exact scenario, if you like.
(And I'm assuming we're back to Clark production values here, not the everybody-wins-so-long-as-they-have-a-pulse Osmond WC, that had all of the soul sucked out of it.)
Now, that said: Do I NEED this to improve the show? Hell, no. I've said I'd watch a properly-done Pyramid if the WC were played for a case of Two-Buck Chuck, and I mean it. But it would certainly make that WC an edge-of-your-seat event (like they aren't anyhow, again, when done right!) when someone's about to run the table...
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I'd prefer the second Winner's Circle trip on the same show be worth $25000 in addition to whatever was earned during the first trip. Otherwise, the first visit is cancelled out. If you can scale that baby twice, you deserve $35000.
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Jan 13 2005, 02:43 PM\']I'd prefer the second Winner's Circle trip on the same show be worth $25000 in addition to whatever was earned during the first trip. Otherwise, the first visit is cancelled out. If you can scale that baby twice, you deserve $35000.[/quote]
Then you would have REALLY hated Bill Cullen's $25K version.
In doing some research on the show, I learned something interesting. One contestant in the first season not only beat the Pyramid twice but also won a car as a bonus in the regular game. According to a press release I have, his cash prize was REDUCED by the value of the car so that his total winnings would stay at $25K!
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Jan 13 2005, 02:02 PM\']According to a press release I have, his cash prize was REDUCED by the value of the car so that his total winnings would stay at $25K!
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This says it all about Bob Stewart being a cheapskate.
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In doing some research on the show, I learned something interesting. One contestant in the first season not only beat the Pyramid twice but also won a car as a bonus in the regular game. According to a press release I have, his cash prize was REDUCED by the value of the car so that his total winnings would stay at $25K!
Was it on the CBS O&O's at the time? That could explain it.
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This incident also happened on that Christmas episode of Wheel of Fortune that GSN aired as apart of their "games of Christmas specials". The family team won over $100,000 and $25,000 of it had to go to Charity because the maximum amount you could win at the time was $75,000. Back in the 90s, Wheel was on CBS O & O stations. So with this in mind, does a game show that is syndicated have to follow network guidelines on maximum winnings, depending on what Network O & O station it is affilated with?
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To take this to a new level (which can be either up or down), I always thought Pyramid would be the perfect game for this:
--You have 5 players in a week.
--They each play each other once during the week, which works out perfectly to 10 games.
--If you still want to do tournaments, the overall winner for the week could be a qualifier OR
--You don't have tournaments, but the first win is $10K, the second $25K, the third $50K and the fourth $100K for the week.
Fire away...
--Mike
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[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'Jan 13 2005, 02:45 PM\']Back in the 90s, Wheel was on CBS O & O stations.
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No, it wasn't, it was the ABC O&O stations. WPVI in Philly has had it since its inception, and since fall of 1990, WABC has had it as well (where it used to air on WCBS).
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It was the CBS O&Os that made The Joker's Wild and Tic Tac Dough impose a winnings' limit for a few years, didn't it? And this led to Joe Dunn's "retirement".
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[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'Jan 13 2005, 12:45 PM\']So with this in mind, does a game show that is syndicated have to follow network guidelines on maximum winnings, depending on what Network O & O station it is affilated with?
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No. This was King World's own rule. I remember them mentioning that Chuck Spangenberg would have to do the same with the latter portion of his Jeopardy winnings when he cracked six figures.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jan 13 2005, 04:44 PM\']No. This was King World's own rule. I remember them mentioning that Chuck Spangenberg would have to do the same with the latter portion of his Jeopardy winnings when he cracked six figures.
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Is Chuck Spangenberg the offspring of Chuck Forrest and Frank Spangenberg? ;-)
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[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'Jan 13 2005, 02:45 PM\']This incident also happened on that Christmas episode of Wheel of Fortune that GSN aired as apart of their "games of Christmas specials". The family team won over $100,000 and $25,000 of it had to go to Charity because the maximum amount you could win at the time was $75,000.
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Xmas 1992 was the airdate of the special. $125K was the winnings max at the time(they taped at CBS TV City then), and the duo could keep $125K and had to give the excess in cash to a charity.
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Jan 13 2005, 04:14 PM\']It was the CBS O&Os that made The Joker's Wild and Tic Tac Dough impose a winnings' limit for a few years, didn't it? And this led to Joe Dunn's "retirement".
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WCBS aired TJW from 1982-84 and TTD in 1983-84 IIRC. They retired Joe on Joker with over $66K. Wink mentioned on TTD there was a $50K limit because of the network affiliation, but they never retired a champ who passed it. By the time of Kit Salisbury's cracking that mark, they were in the 1984-85 season and TTD was back on WWOR.
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I always thought $10K first trip, $15K second trip winorlose made the most sense.
Re: the Cullen Pyramid winner--I wonder what would've (did?) happen if the contestant had turned down receiving the car.
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jan 13 2005, 09:03 AM\']That's something I never liked of the Osmond version. If you win both games in one show, you should get a shot at something extra.[/quote]
This is the one thing I liked about the Osmond version..if you totally bomb the first bonus round; why should you get a chance for more in the second? Want something extra? How about a box of lollipops?
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I'd rather have another shot at the $10k, myself. You know, there is something to be said for the lights, the pressure, the money, that hundreds of people are watching. I don't mind people getting a second chance to do it right, but I agree, I didn't think that you could go from $500 in the first half to $25,000 in the second.
Side note: if you DID conquer the Pyramid on your second try (in the 80s, did you still just win the $25k, and not the token money for each box in the first half too?
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' date=\'Jan 14 2005, 09:47 AM\']
Side note: if you DID conquer the Pyramid on your second try (in the 80s, did you still just win the $25k, and not the token money for each box in the first half too?
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If you won the second WC attempt, your winnings from the first WC were augmented to $25K.
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As a fair amount of you remember, the Winner's Circle regulations on The $20,000 Pyramid really smacked of strangeness. Win on your first try and it's $10000 and goodbye. Blow it and win the top money during visit #2 and it was $15000 and goodbye. The $20000 win only happened if you blew it the first two times and won a third game and then conquered the Winner's Circle. And after that, weren't any Big 7 or Perfect 21 bonus winnings thrown out to make a $20000 total? Weird.
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Jan 14 2005, 10:16 AM\']
And after that, weren't any Big 7 or Perfect 21 bonus winnings thrown out to make a $20000 total? Weird.
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The ABC run saw the player's total augmented to the amount won on their WC win. We reported in ATGS that the CBS $10K run allowed the contestant to keep winnings besides the $10K won on a WC in.
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ABC did have a $20,000 limit at the time, but I agree that the payout structure was a little odd. It's almost like they were penalizing you for being a good enough player to get to the top of the pyramid on your first try. They probably should have allowed people to stay on the show until they passed the $20K mark and then said goodbye.
Re. the bonuses, I remember a couple of players that had racked up a few thousand in bonus money and previous winner's circle money, only to have it augmented to $20K with a winner's circle win. In effect, all of those bonuses were for naught once they won the big prize.
The '80s CBS version had one strange incident I can remember: a contestant had something like $23,500 in cash, but had also won a couple of Mystery 7 prizes. Dick told her at the top of the show that if she went over $25,000 she'd have to retire - but surely the prizes she won put her over that mark. Maybe they only counted the cash winnings in that version...or maybe it was just an oversight.
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Let's see here about The New $25,000 Pyramid. Win two Winner's Circles in the same day and it's $25000 total, then so long. Win $10000 on the first day and $25000 in a second Winner's Circle trip on the second day and it's $35000 total, then so long. This be true?
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jan 14 2005, 11:32 AM\']
The '80s CBS version had one strange incident I can remember: a contestant had something like $23,500 in cash, but had also won a couple of Mystery 7 prizes. Dick told her at the top of the show that if she went over $25,000 she'd have to retire - but surely the prizes she won put her over that mark. Maybe they only counted the cash winnings in that version...or maybe it was just an oversight.
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Seems to me they only counted cash winnings. You almost never heard the retail value of a Mystery 7 prize. The only time I recall Dick making a reference to the value of an M7 prize was for a $3000 Yamaha keyboard. One five time champion was told they had won over $60K when the bonus prizes were added.
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Jan 14 2005, 08:40 AM\']<snip> We reported in ATGS...
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We reported? Got a rat in your pocket, Zach?
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Jan 14 2005, 11:54 AM\']Let's see here about The New $25,000 Pyramid. Win two Winner's Circles in the same day and it's $25000 total, then so long. Win $10000 on the first day and $25000 in a second Winner's Circle trip on the second day and it's $35000 total, then so long. This be true?[/quote]
True that be.
Was the 7-11 added before or after the retirement level was upped from $25K? (Zach, feel free to answer.)
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[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' date=\'Jan 14 2005, 06:55 PM\']Was the 7-11 added before or after the retirement level was upped from $25K? (Zach, feel free to answer.)
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For the good of this forum, I shall provide my (hopefully correct) answer.
Given that the 7-11 premiered in September 1984, and that in the same month CBS raised their limit, I would think the former occured shortly after the latter. Exact airdates are largely irrelevant to the timing.
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[quote name=\'Tony\' date=\'Jan 14 2005, 07:09 PM\'][quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' date=\'Jan 14 2005, 06:55 PM\']Was the 7-11 added before or after the retirement level was upped from $25K? (Zach, feel free to answer.)
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For the good of this forum, I shall provide my (hopefully correct) answer.
Given that the 7-11 premiered in September 1984, and that in the same month CBS raised their limit, I would think the former occured shortly after the latter. Exact airdates are largely irrelevant to the timing.
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It was actually 11/1/84 when CBS raised their limit to "retire at $50K, keep up to $75K", as referenced on Press Your Luck that day. You're off a bit more on when the 7-11 bowed; it bowed in APril 1983. Around the time the winnings limit was raised at CBS, the 21-21 tiebreaker prize changed from a econobox car(started earlier in 1984) to $5K.
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Jan 14 2005, 07:25 PM\']
It was actually 11/1/84 when CBS raised their limit to "retire at $50K, keep up to $75K", as referenced on Press Your Luck that day. You're off a bit more on when the 7-11 bowed; it bowed in APril 1983. Around the time the winnings limit was raised at CBS, the 21-21 tiebreaker prize changed from a econobox car(started earlier in 1984) to $5K.
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Would this also be the day they dropped "NEW" from the title, or was that earlier?
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[quote name=\'aaron sica\' date=\'Jan 14 2005, 07:45 PM\']
Would this also be the day they dropped "NEW" from the title, or was that earlier?
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They dropped NEW in early 1985.
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Stepping back to The $50,000 Pyramid, the first WC visit was worth $5000. The second was worth $10000. Now then! Was the $10K added to what was earned on the 1st trip or was the total $$$ increased to that amount?
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[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Jan 14 2005, 07:25 PM\']It was actually 11/1/84 when CBS raised their limit to "retire at $50K, keep up to $75K", as referenced on Press Your Luck that day. You're off a bit more on when the 7-11 bowed; it bowed in APril 1983. Around the time the winnings limit was raised at CBS, the 21-21 tiebreaker prize changed from a econobox car(started earlier in 1984) to $5K.[/quote]
Thank you, Zach. I was curious because I was calculating the theoretical maximum potential winnings of '80s Pyramid contestants. ($49,950 before the 7-11, $51,050 after, not counting non-cash prizes) Whee, esoterica.
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[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Jan 14 2005, 08:15 PM\']Stepping back to The $50,000 Pyramid, the first WC visit was worth $5000. The second was worth $10000. Now then! Was the $10K added to what was earned on the 1st trip or was the total $$$ increased to that amount?
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I think I remember Dick saying that it was the latter, like the $25,000 on other versions, though I've never seen a show where it mattered.