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The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: GSWitch on June 20, 2005, 11:03:59 AM

Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: GSWitch on June 20, 2005, 11:03:59 AM
25 years ago, the summer of 1980 would be heartbreaking for game show fans.  Now that most soap operas had expanded to an hour, doing away with afternoon game shows, the morning was next.  In just one month...

ABC:  The Love Boat ended up sinking The $20,000 Pyramid

CBS:  Alice told the Gauntlet of Villains of Whew! to "Kiss my grits!"

NBC:  Spared Wheel of Fortune, Password + & Card Sharks.  But killed Hollywood Squares, High Rollers & Chain Reaction for David Letterman!

David Letterman would be like RAID!, kills game shows dead.  Wonder what his Top 10 reasons were (LOL)?  And with the popularity of talk shows, most cities didn't hardly carry network game shows.

HOUSTON:  KPRC had Donahue & Midday (local news), so there was no room for NBC games in their inn.  We were stuck with The Price Is Right & Family Feud.

SAN ANTONIO:  KMOL (now WOAI) was the same as KPRC, KSAT lost the Feud, so KENS had The Price Is Right being the sole survivor.

Any other cities that were reduced to one or two network games during this depression?
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: sshuffield70 on June 20, 2005, 02:04:58 PM
Ummmmm.....Witch?  How can a Texas station go from a K in 1980 to W now?   I know of a WOAI radio in SA, but I don't think these days you could have a WOAI-TV station WEST of the Mississippi.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: DrBear on June 20, 2005, 02:23:09 PM
There are plenty of exceptions as noted on this Web page. (http://\"http://www.oldradio.com/archives/general/kwtrivia.htm\") I believe that one of the current exceptions is where you have co-ownership of radio and TV, and want to use the same calls for both; if, say, Clear Channel owns WOAI (not that they do, just an example) and buys a TV station KMOL, it could switch the TV calls to WOAI (assuming there isn't another one someplace, of course).
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: dzinkin on June 20, 2005, 02:27:28 PM
[quote name=\'sshuffield70\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 02:04 PM\']Ummmmm.....Witch?  How can a Texas station go from a K in 1980 to W now?   I know of a WOAI radio in SA, but I don't think these days you could have a WOAI-TV station WEST of the Mississippi.
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It can and does happen, mostly in areas where the calls predate the W-east/K-west rule.  There are exceptions to the W/K split on both sides of the Mississippi -- in the east you have KYW Philadelphia and KDKA Pittsburgh, and in the west, WOAI (the actual calls for KMOL before they were KMOL, if memory serves) San Antonio and WFAA Dallas.

GSWitch has been at best wrong, and at worst totally deluded, on pretty much everything -- but this is a rare exception to the rule.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: GSWitch on June 20, 2005, 02:33:40 PM
[quote name=\'sshuffield70\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 01:04 PM\']Ummmmm.....Witch?  How can a Texas station go from a K in 1980 to W now?   I know of a WOAI radio in SA, but I don't think these days you could have a WOAI-TV station WEST of the Mississippi.
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WOAI-4 started around 1949 in both radio & television, both NBC affiliates @ the time.

In 1975, new owners bought the WOAI television station & re-named it KMOL-4. while there was still radio station WOAI.  I preferred the KMOL myself.

But in 2002, once they were bought out, they decided to go back to the original call letters of WOAI.

Also, the ABC affiliate in Dallas is WFAA-8.  Houston's the only big Texas city not to have any W's @ all.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: dzinkin on June 20, 2005, 02:43:32 PM
[quote name=\'GSWitch\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 02:33 PM\']Houston's the only big Texas city not to have any W's @ all.
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Really?  Which station in Austin starts with a W?
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: DrBear on June 20, 2005, 02:51:00 PM
And even though I was guessing, it WAS Clear Channel (release reprinted on This site (http://\"http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:fcuhZjqnKc4J:www.broadcasting101.ws/links.htm+KFIZ&hl=en&ie=UTF-8\"))
KMOL headed Back to the Future
 

KMOL-TV, San Antonio's NBC network affiliate and the city's first TV station, will change its call letters back to the original set that it began broadcasting with on December 11, 1949: WOAI-TV. The change also means that News Radio 1200 and Channel 4 will share the WOAI call letters.

"We are headed back to the future", said William Moll, President of Television for San Antonio based Clear Channel Worldwide, which owns both KMOL-TV and News Radio 1200 WOAI. "KMOL and News Radio 1200 WOAI have a long history of a strong news and public service commitment to this community. To have these two successful stations share the WOAI brand acknowledges our historical roots in San Antonio. It is significant to our company and the Mays family."

Switching the KMOL call letters to WOAI will also give Channel 4 a unique "W" designation in the market. In addition, Channel 4's call letter change to WOAI will also have an effect on its radio partner, News Radio 1200 WOAI.

"I see this as a very positive move in that it can only further solidify WOAI's image as news leader in San Antonio," said Tom Glade, Vice-President/Market Manager for Clear Channel's San Antonio radio station group.

The switch from KMOL to WOAI is expected to take place on or before January 1, 2003, pending formal approval by the Federal Communications Commission.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: rugrats1 on June 20, 2005, 03:38:18 PM
[quote name=\'dzinkin\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 01:43 PM\'][quote name=\'GSWitch\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 02:33 PM\']Houston's the only big Texas city not to have any W's @ all.
[/quote]
Really?  Which station in Austin starts with a W?
[/quote]

...or El Paso, Amarillo or Lubbock?
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: sshuffield70 on June 20, 2005, 04:31:56 PM
[quote name=\'dzinkin\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 01:27 PM\'][quote name=\'sshuffield70\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 02:04 PM\']Ummmmm.....Witch?  How can a Texas station go from a K in 1980 to W now?   I know of a WOAI radio in SA, but I don't think these days you could have a WOAI-TV station WEST of the Mississippi.
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It can and does happen, mostly in areas where the calls predate the W-east/K-west rule.  There are exceptions to the W/K split on both sides of the Mississippi -- in the east you have KYW Philadelphia and KDKA Pittsburgh, and in the west, WOAI (the actual calls for KMOL before they were KMOL, if memory serves) San Antonio and WFAA Dallas.

GSWitch has been at best wrong, and at worst totally deluded, on pretty much everything -- but this is a rare exception to the rule.
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You're correct on all of your examples, but they are all pre-1960.  WOAI, the current one, is the first I've heard of post-1960.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: dzinkin on June 20, 2005, 04:52:16 PM
[quote name=\'sshuffield70\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 04:31 PM\'][quote name=\'dzinkin\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 01:27 PM\']It can and does happen, mostly in areas where the calls predate the W-east/K-west rule.  There are exceptions to the W/K split on both sides of the Mississippi -- in the east you have KYW Philadelphia and KDKA Pittsburgh, and in the west, WOAI (the actual calls for KMOL before they were KMOL, if memory serves) San Antonio and WFAA Dallas.

GSWitch has been at best wrong, and at worst totally deluded, on pretty much everything -- but this is a rare exception to the rule.
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You're correct on all of your examples, but they are all pre-1960.  WOAI, the current one, is the first I've heard of post-1960.
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Then you need to be more clear in your wording.  You said...

Quote
...I don't think these days you could have a WOAI-TV station WEST of the Mississippi.

...as opposed to having a station acquire the "wrong" W/K calls today.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: Ian Wallis on June 20, 2005, 04:55:32 PM
Channel 11 in Minneapolis is KARE, affiliated with the NBC network.  In the late '70s, it was WTCN and independent, so it has happened since 1960.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: uncamark on June 20, 2005, 05:29:19 PM
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 03:55 PM\']Channel 11 in Minneapolis is KARE, affiliated with the NBC network.  In the late '70s, it was WTCN and independent, so it has happened since 1960.
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The Mississippi goes right through St. Paul, but the FCC has historically been lenient with the market--St. Paul seem to get stations get K calls no matter what side of the river they're on.  WCCO has always been assigned to west-of-the-Mississippi Minneapolis, as was pre-KARE WTCN.  And the FCC doesn't seem to be handing out W calls lately--when WCAL-FM in west-of-the-Mississippi Northfield was sold late last year by St. Olaf College to Minnesota Public Radio, MPR got as new calls KCMP.

In fact, it seems to me that there are relatively very few W calls in Minnesota and nothing but W calls in Wisconsin, but the FCC uses the Mississippi as a dividing line because it acts as state lines for most of its flow.  Just not Minnesota.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: Neumms on June 20, 2005, 05:51:14 PM
[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 04:29 PM\'][quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 03:55 PM\']Channel 11 in Minneapolis is KARE, affiliated with the NBC network.  In the late '70s, it was WTCN and independent, so it has happened since 1960.
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The Mississippi goes right through St. Paul, but the FCC has historically been lenient with the market--St. Paul seem to get stations get K calls no matter what side of the river they're on.  WCCO has always been assigned to west-of-the-Mississippi Minneapolis, as was pre-KARE WTCN.  And the FCC doesn't seem to be handing out W calls lately--when WCAL-FM in west-of-the-Mississippi Northfield was sold late last year by St. Olaf College to Minnesota Public Radio, MPR got as new calls KCMP.
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The Mississippi goes right through Minneapolis, too, and in some places it's the border.

Twin Cities stations have the choice of K or W; it doesn't matter which side of the river they're on. KSTP is east of the Mississippi (actually it sits right on the Mpls./St. Paul border). KITN-TV switched to WFTC ("Fox Twin Cities") 5-10 years ago. MPR's other two stations here are KSJN and KNOW, so they may have just decided to be consistent. And before it was KARE, it was for two years WUSA--Gannett switched it when they bought their station in D.C.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: TimK2003 on June 20, 2005, 08:24:10 PM
[quote name=\'DrBear\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 01:23 PM\']I believe that one of the current exceptions is where you have co-ownership of radio and TV, and want to use the same calls for both; if, say, Clear Channel owns WOAI (not that they do, just an example) and buys a TV station KMOL, it could switch the TV calls to WOAI...

...And even though I was guessing, it WAS Clear Channel
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C'mon, The Evil Clear Channel Empire practically OWNS San Antonio!!!  I think the only things they *don't* own there is Sea World and SBC.....Just give them a little more time -- they're probably working to find a way to tatoo their logo on the underbelly of Shamu!

(To those San Antonians, it's nothing against your town. Your city is awesome but you just have some seedy tenants in the communications industry that need to be downsized).
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: DrBear on June 20, 2005, 09:05:40 PM
For the record, there is one K station in Wisconsin - KFIZ radio in Fond du Lac  (there was also briefly a KFIZ-TV in the late 1960s.)
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: Gus on June 20, 2005, 09:32:55 PM
Not exactly K/W switching, but another story in the same vein: WJW in Cleveland had to change call letters in the 1970s due to ownership issues... I think... I wasn't alive then to understand the specifics of the incident, but I know that for some reason, they had to call themselves WJKW until 1987, when, they were allowed to revert back to the old three-letter WJW. Any Clevelanders know what all happened?

Also, a question: is WJW the only FOX station in the US with a three-letter callsign?
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: BrandonFG on June 20, 2005, 09:38:46 PM
[quote name=\'Gus\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 08:32 PM\']Not exactly K/W switching, but another story in the same vein: WJW in Cleveland had to change call letters in the 1970s due to ownership issues... I think... I wasn't alive then to understand the specifics of the incident, but I know that for some reason, they had to call themselves WJKW until 1987, when, they were allowed to revert back to the old three-letter WJW. Any Clevelanders know what all happened?

Also, a question: is WJW the only FOX station in the US with a three-letter callsign?
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Didn't a "W" Cleveland station switch their call letters with a station Philly several years ago, thus resulting in Philly getting KYW, and a rare exception to the rule? If it's not Cleveland, then I believe it's a Midwest station that has a "W" instead of "K", and Philly is still KYW.

ObGameShow: Saw a season 1 Whammy! ep. yesterday. It really wasn't that bad.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: SRIV94 on June 20, 2005, 10:04:26 PM
[quote name=\'Gus\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 08:32 PM\']Also, a question: is WJW the only FOX station in the US with a three-letter callsign?
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A quick look at FOX's website shows one other--KDF-TV in Corpus Christi, TX.

Doug
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: Fedya on June 20, 2005, 10:04:51 PM
[quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 08:38 PM\'] If it's not Cleveland, then I believe it's a Midwest station that has a "W" instead of "K", and Philly is still KYW.
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I don't know if it's what you're thinking of, but there is a WHO (http://\"http://www.whotv.com/\") in Des Moines.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: SRIV94 on June 20, 2005, 10:07:47 PM
Now that I think about it, didn't WKYC in Cleveland (which also shares the same channel number as KYW/Philadelphia) have the original KYW calls?

Paging Don Howard. . .

Doug
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: dzinkin on June 20, 2005, 10:09:51 PM
[quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 10:04 PM\'][quote name=\'Gus\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 08:32 PM\']Also, a question: is WJW the only FOX station in the US with a three-letter callsign?
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A quick look at FOX's website shows one other--KDF-TV in Corpus Christi, TX.
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The official call letters (per 100000watts.com) are actually K47DF, not KDF.  Can the station ID as KDF on air, or do the real calls have to be somewhere on-screen at least?
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: rugrats1 on June 20, 2005, 10:59:08 PM
[quote name=\'dzinkin\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 09:09 PM\']The official call letters (per 100000watts.com) are actually K47DF, not KDF.  Can the station ID as KDF on air, or do the real calls have to be somewhere on-screen at least?
[/quote]

They can do anything they want on air, as long as they announce the legal calls at least once an hour.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: clemon79 on June 20, 2005, 11:05:13 PM
[quote name=\'rugrats1\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 07:59 PM\']They can do anything they want on air, as long as they announce the legal calls at least once an hour.
[/quote]
Do they have to be ANNOUNCED, like a radio station legal, or can they be displayed on-screen?
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: Don Howard on June 20, 2005, 11:54:34 PM
[quote name=\'Gus\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 08:32 PM\']Not exactly K/W switching, but another story in the same vein: WJW in Cleveland had to change call letters in the 1970s due to ownership issues... I think... I wasn't alive then to understand the specifics of the incident, but I know that for some reason, they had to call themselves WJKW until 1987, when, they were allowed to revert back to the old three-letter WJW. Any Clevelanders know what all happened?
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The story is this. Once upon a time, there was a CBS television affiliate in Cleveland with the call letters WJW owned by the same company which had an AM radio station at 850 on your dial called WJW. In 1977, there was an ownership change at either the radio or TV station and since WJW Radio had the call letters first and since both outlets were no longer owned by the same company, WJW Television ei8ht became WJKW-TV 8. This remained so until 1985 when the WJW Radio talk programming moved over to clear channel {before those were dirty words} 1100 WWWE and the 1100 squad--except for Pete Franklin's Sportsline--were kicked over to AM 850, which then changed their call letters from WJW to WRMR. Since this freed up the WJW designation, TV 8 jumped on that dude and took those letters back for their use.
Quick post script: In 1994, TV 8 was owned by New World. Just before Labor Day of that year, they were the first CBS affiliate to switch to FOX. In the ensuing months, all of the New World affiliates would follow suit.

ObGameShows: Dick Goddard hosted Bowling For Dollars on TV 8 from 1977 to 1979. The highest jackpot was won by a lucky bowler who earned just over $3000 (split with a Pin Pal in the home audience).
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: Unrealtor on June 21, 2005, 12:33:16 AM
[quote name=\'dzinkin\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 09:09 PM\']The official call letters (per 100000watts.com) are actually K47DF, not KDF.  Can the station ID as KDF on air, or do the real calls have to be somewhere on-screen at least?
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K13VC in Austin was "KVC" every time but the legal ID (and even then the audio used "KVC-TV 13").

ObGameShow: KVC ran Osmond Pyramid opposite The Price Is Right, before it got kicked off the air in favor of the digital broadcasts of a Univision O&O that bills itself as Killeen-Austin, but is barely recievable in both cities, thanks to the fact that they are 60 miles apart.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: DjohnsonCB on June 21, 2005, 01:20:46 AM
[quote name=\'Fedya\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 09:04 PM\'][quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 08:38 PM\'] If it's not Cleveland, then I believe it's a Midwest station that has a "W" instead of "K", and Philly is still KYW.
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I don't know if it's what you're thinking of, but there is a WHO (http://\"http://www.whotv.com/\") in Des Moines.
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Not only does Des Moines still have two TV stations beginning with W, they also have only three letters (WOI and WHO).  They *could* change them to four-letter calls beginning with a K, but as was proven with the name change in one of their shopping centers and probably has been by now with the new name for their Sec Taylor Stadium, most folks there would likely just keep using the old name.  

Despite this, Davenport's WOC became KWQC some years ago, whereas my current NBC station WOWT only met the change halfway; it was WOW until 1975.
Come to think of it, didn't Richie Cunningham have a DJ job on a radio station with those calls on an old "Happy Days"?
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: Ian Wallis on June 21, 2005, 08:51:46 AM
Quote
Despite this, Davenport's WOC became KWQC some years ago, whereas my current NBC station WOWT only met the change halfway; it was WOW until 1975.
Come to think of it, didn't Richie Cunningham have a DJ job on a radio station with those calls on an old "Happy Days"?


Yes, in a 1975 episode.  They also used the calls WZAZ on one episode.  The fake calls KXIU were used on TV shows a lot too, but "I Dream of Jeannie" made a mistake with them.  That show was set in Coco Beach, Florida, but used the fake "K" calls on an episode.

OK, maybe I watch things TOO closely!

ObGame Shows:  Henry Winkler of "Happy Days" produced the last two years of "Hollywood Squares".
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: DrBear on June 21, 2005, 10:46:30 AM
The WZAZ call letters also make a ton of appearances in the Zucker-Abrahams-Zucker movies ("Airplane!" where WZAZ is the station "where disco lives forever") and it's entirely possible that the three, who are Wisconsin natives, might have had something to do with "Happy Days," although I don't know what.

ObGameShow: Robert Hays, who starred in "Airplane!" is no relation to Richard Hayes, who hosted "The Baby Game."
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: mystery7 on June 21, 2005, 11:50:22 AM
[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 10:05 PM\'][quote name=\'rugrats1\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 07:59 PM\']They can do anything they want on air, as long as they announce the legal calls at least once an hour.
[/quote]
Do they have to be ANNOUNCED, like a radio station legal, or can they be displayed on-screen?
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Both is best, but as long as the ID is given in at least one form at the top of the hour, everything's cool. Lots of stations do a quick bottom-screen ID (5 sec.) at the start of primetime shows since networks rarely ever take that "10-second pause for station identification", and go from one show right into the next.

And for what it's worth, an ID consists of call letters and city of license - no need for channel number.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: Don Howard on June 21, 2005, 12:25:53 PM
[quote name=\'DrBear\' date=\'Jun 21 2005, 09:46 AM\']ObGameShow: Robert Hays, who starred in "Airplane!" is no relation to Richard Hayes, who hosted "The Baby Game."
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Plus! Robert co-starred with Donna Pescow on Angie, where in one episode their families competed on Family Feud with guest stars Richard Dawson and Gene Wood.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: uncamark on June 21, 2005, 12:36:43 PM
And isn't WOI technically licensed to Ames, where Iowa State University, the station's (former?) owner is?  I know pretty much for sure that Iowa State still owns public radio WOI AM and FM.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: clemon79 on June 21, 2005, 01:43:24 PM
[quote name=\'mystery7\' date=\'Jun 21 2005, 08:50 AM\']And for what it's worth, an ID consists of call letters and city of license - no need for channel number.
[/quote]
Yeah, that much I knew from radio. When I was in college, we slipped it in anyhow - "90.7 FM, KSJS, San Jose State University, San Jose" - but I know that the actual legal part of that is "KSJS, San Jose". I was just wondering how it had to work in television, since there's the aural AND the visual you can comminucate it with.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: DrBear on June 21, 2005, 02:27:30 PM
On TV it certainly can be visual; WIWB (the local WB station) is licensed to Suring, a farm community about 30 miles from Green Bay; it prints "Suring-Green Bay-Fox Cities" with its legal ID. (The station was a Pax station that bought the rights to an old Suring Christian station and moved the transmitter closer to GB).

ObGameShows: Speaking of "Airplane!" in "Airplane 2: The Sequel," Art Fleming plays a few seconds of Jeopardy! with the shuttle passengers.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: Don Howard on June 21, 2005, 02:51:32 PM
[quote name=\'DrBear\' date=\'Jun 21 2005, 01:27 PM\']ObGameShows: Speaking of "Airplane!" in "Airplane 2: The Sequel," Art Fleming plays a few seconds of Jeopardy! with the shuttle passengers.
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Pat Sajak plays a newscaster. Neither Pat O'Brien nor Blake Emmons appear.
I'm sure they've both watched the movie, however, and enjoyed it.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: Steve Gavazzi on June 21, 2005, 03:38:30 PM
[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Jun 21 2005, 02:51 PM\'][quote name=\'DrBear\' date=\'Jun 21 2005, 01:27 PM\']ObGameShows: Speaking of "Airplane!" in "Airplane 2: The Sequel," Art Fleming plays a few seconds of Jeopardy! with the shuttle passengers.
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Pat Sajak plays a newscaster. Neither Pat O'Brien nor Blake Emmons appear.
I'm sure they've both watched the movie, however, and enjoyed it.
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And everybody knows that Richard Dawson was never approached to appear in the movie.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: BrandonFG on June 21, 2005, 07:50:05 PM
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' date=\'Jun 21 2005, 02:38 PM\']And everybody knows that Richard Dawson was never approached to appear in the movie.
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Rumor has it that he was pissed that they decided to use Feud SFX in Airplane II, but not him.

Also, Robert Hays was a guest on "Reel to Reel".
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: Don Howard on June 21, 2005, 10:51:42 PM
[quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jun 21 2005, 06:50 PM\']Also, Robert Hays was a guest on "Reel to Reel".
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Was he paid?
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: TimK2003 on June 22, 2005, 03:04:41 PM
[quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Jun 20 2005, 09:07 PM\']Now that I think about it, didn't WKYC in Cleveland (which also shares the same channel number as KYW/Philadelphia) have the original KYW calls?
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Here is the definitive answer on how KYW came to Cleveland and how it left, with a few additional tidbits... (most of the history info was gathered from the WKYC website at wkyc.com)

1948 -- WNBK-TV, an NBC owned and operated station begins broadcasting and goes on the air October 31, 1948. From 6 p.m. until 11 p.m., viewers tune in to WNBK. Soon after, the station moved its sign-on time up to 1 p.m. WNBK was Channel 4 then, and Tom Haley, who appeared on "Today in Cleveland", worked for WTAM Radio, the NBC radio arm of WNBK.

In 1954, WNBK-TV erects the most powerful television antenna in the Midwest and the tallest in the country in suburban Parma, overlooking downtown Cleveland . With this new and improved signal, Channel 4 moves to its new location as Channel 3 and that's where it has stayed ever since.

In 1955, Westinghouse trades its Philadelphia station for NBC's WNBK-TV, moving it from Cleveland, Ohio to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. WNBK-TV and WTAM Radio become KYW-TV and KYW Radio respectively.

In 1959, Channel 3 was featuring Eyewitness News, one of the first half-hour newscasts in the country. The Channel 3 news team consisted of anchors Carl Stern and Bud Dancy, weathercaster Dick Goddard, and Jim Graner with sports.

In 1963, KYW-TV hires Mike Doud, a lounge singer to host an afternoon variety show. His name is changed to "Mike Douglas," the show became a huge success and the rest as they say - is history. The show's format called for one guest to co-host each week. It also became the springboard for many celebrities who went on to fame and fortune. For example, a 20-year-old singer from New York was paid $1,000 to co-host five 90 minute shows -- Barbra Streisand. A KYW Radio director, Tom Conway often did comedy skits. A popular performer, he tried comedy on his own, but as Tim Conway.

In 1965,  the FCC and Supreme Court rule the Westinghouse/NBC trade null and void. KYW moved back to Philadelphia, PA, taking along with it The Mike Douglas Show which went to national syndication soon after; WKYC-TV/Radio now came back to Cleveland.

(I assume Channel 3 took the calls WKYC in order to say "KY in Cleveland, as the radio jingles at the time had said.  And since they couldn't just say KYC -- new 3-lettered stations and new K stations East of the Mississippi were not allowed by then -- they put the W in front to create WKYC  Why it took 10 years for the trade to be ruled a no-no, I don't have the foggiest).

On the radio side, 50,000 Watt powerhouse WKYC-AM 1100 remained WKYC untill the early 70's (1972 or 1973?), when NBC sold the station to another company, which changed the name to WWWE (3WE). Then in the early 90's(?) WWWE reverted back to their old call letters and has since been known as WTAM.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: Jimmy Owen on June 22, 2005, 03:25:49 PM
That is a good story on Mike Douglas, except that he changed his name long before the talk show started.  He was known as Mike Douglas as far back as the late '40s when he appeared on Kay Kyser's "Kollege of Musical Knowledge"  He also appeared on the NBC daytime "Club 60" out of Chicago in 57, which was hosted for a time by Dennis James.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: Don Howard on June 22, 2005, 05:11:28 PM
Excellent synopsis on the KYW/WKYC swap, Tim. I wasn't sure of the particulars which is why I didn't reply when paged.
Just one nitpicky item. Mike's talk show started in 1961, not '63.
I didn't realize Tom Haley was there from the start. Very nice man, by the way. His on-camera politeness is not an act.
It was 1973 when WKYC Radio became WWWE (known as Country 11 during their brief term with the C&W format) and they reverted to WTAM in 1996.
"KY in Cleveland". That's what the hookers used to shout at me on Prospect Avenue.
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: TimK2003 on June 22, 2005, 05:40:46 PM
[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Jun 22 2005, 04:11 PM\']Excellent synopsis on the KYW/WKYC swap, Tim. I wasn't sure of the particulars which is why I didn't reply when paged.
Just one nitpicky item. Mike's talk show started in 1961, not '63.
I didn't realize Tom Haley was there from the start. Very nice man, by the way. His on-camera politeness is not an act.
It was 1973 when WKYC Radio became WWWE (known as Country 11 during their brief term with the C&W format) and they reverted to WTAM in 1996.
"KY in Cleveland". That's what the hookers used to shout at me on Prospect Avenue.
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Hey Don,

I collect a lot of old Cleveland radio jingles, which I use on the radio webcast.  Listening to some of those old "KY" jingles nowadays conjures up a whole lot of different images.  One in particular is a bunch of girls (perhaps cheerleaders) shouting "Let's hear it for K-Y", followed by a lot of giggling.  Keep in mind that this was done 2 years before the Summer of Love in 1967.  ;-D
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: uncamark on June 22, 2005, 06:46:09 PM
Somehow, I have to bring up the famous words of WLAC Nashville's Gene Nobles a long time ago:  "That's K-Y, friends, the jelly of a thousand and one uses--and you know what that one use is."
Title: The Great Game Show Depression 2
Post by: joshg on June 24, 2005, 02:58:39 PM
Here's more on the story, from the Philly side of things:
from http://phillymemories.tripod.com/id15.htm (http://\"http://phillymemories.tripod.com/id15.htm\")

The histories of channel 3 and KYW are interwoven, but are not exactly the same. Let's start with KYW, which actually began in Chicago in 1921 (which explains why it starts with a "K"). To make a long story short, KYW came to Philadelphia in 1934, moved to Cleveland in 1956, and came back to Philadelphia in June, 1965 when Westinghouse acquired NBC's channel 3 and 1060 AM. The history of ch. 3 in Philly dates back to 1932, as experimental W3XE, owned by Philco. In 1939, W3XE became the first affiliate of the NBC network, and in 1941 was granted a commercial license (only the second in the country) and became known as WPTZ. In 1953,the station was sold to Westinghouse, and in 1956, NBC acquired WPTZ through an exchange of licences with Westinghouse, sending the KYW call letters to Cleveland. Channel 3 was now known as WRCV. In June, 1965,the FCC reversed the swap, bringing the KYW call letters back to Philly. KYW began its affiliation with CBS in Sept, 1995 when Westinghouse merged with CBS. Channel 3 boasts the country's first TV soap opera (1942) and the first color broadcast (1953).