Author Topic: College Bowl (Read 3193 times)

Jeremy Nelson · « **on:** October 21, 2008, 12:29:39 PM »

I'm the captain of our school's college bowl team, and lately it seems that our practices have gotten a bit "stale" lately. We usually go through regulation packets, but we'll sometimes just go through Jeopardy! boards or play Trivial Pursuit to break the rhythm of playing game material. Lately, though, it seems that they aren't all that engaged. Does anybody have any suggestions as to strategies/drills that I can use?

If anybody also has any suggestion on how to bring new players aboard without intimidating them, I would appreciate it.

Dbacksfan12 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 21, 2008, 12:39:28 PM »

[quote name=\'rollercoaster87\' post=\'200147\' date=\'Oct 21 2008, 11:29 AM\']If anybody also has any suggestion on how to bring new players aboard without intimidating them, I would appreciate it.[/quote]First off, put away the brass knuckles.

In seriousness, does your school have a community message boards in the student housing/dorms? Perhaps a posting there would help; or maybe an advertisement on Facebook. My former school, as far as I knew did not have such a team. If there was one, they did not advertise it.

As far as your practices are concerned, have you ever attempted to have a "scrimmage" of sorts? Perhaps obtain the assistance of some staff members, or maybe a team of local high schoolers could attend and participate in a mock game of college bowl.

Just a couple of ideas; take them for what they're worth.

Matt Ottinger · « **Reply #2 on:** October 21, 2008, 01:37:16 PM »

My experience has always been that 'quiz bowl' is such a unique world that you're rarely going to get someone to develop an interest in it. It's either something you like or you don't like, and you usually figure that out for yourself fairly quickly. So any recruitment effort is better spent creating an awareness of the program on a large scale, so people who've not heard of you can find out, than trying to convince a smaller group of hand-picked people to come aboard.

As for becoming stale, I think Mark's right that scrimmages are your best bet. Try to create as competitive an atmosphere as possible, not just having your A team crushing your B team every time. Mix it up so you have evenly matched teams, even if the number of players is unequal. You got one good guy? Have him play everybody. Create matchups that are fun and interesting. If that doesn't engage your team, competitive quiz bowl might just not be their thing.

Having said all that, burnout is a factor. It's hard to get someone to develop an interest in quiz bowl, but it's far too easy to lose interest in doing it. If a lot of people are being vocal about how "stale" things are getting, maybe you simply need to get together less often.

wheelloon · « **Reply #3 on:** October 21, 2008, 01:43:45 PM »

Welp, I can provide ideas, at least ones that I've used and have worked in the past couple years for my high school team. I also plan on implementing some of the same ideas with the college bowl team, since there's a good chance I'll end up named IR/assistant coach outside of tournament moderator...

1. Bust out the old tapes *and I know you have some

*. This does not necessarily mean just Jeopardy. This could also be Tic Tac Dough, Joker's Wild, Press Your Luck *all which most of them actually remember*, Millionaire, 21, etc. In particular, I hook up my team's buzzers, stand next to the TV, and have them truly play along. I even have them play an unofficial game of Millionaire, using the official WWTBAM book of full 15 question games they released in 2000.

With Jeopardy, I just pause when someone buzzes in, add or subtract depending on their response, and give others a chance to answer before unpausing and revealing what's correct *of course, I do make sure I know the answers ahead of time too, which doesn't hurt my knowledge base a single bit either

*. You might be surprised how well even some of these high school students do at this...

2. King of the hill: Players go against each other 1vs1, first to buzz-in and answer 3 or 5 *your pref* correct advances to the next round. This continues in a single elimination bit, winner of one match faces winner of another, and whoever is left wins and is "Da King." If you want a prize for the winner, go for it. Make 'em really feel like a king...

3. Trash packets: People of all ages love this stuff. Who knows when it might come up too? Do a search online for "quiz bowl trash packets." I prefer this site, where I have about 200 MB's of word files full of questions, alone:

http://quizbowl.stanford.edu/archive/

4. Mock games: Much like what Odor said, if you can get some mock games going that can be advertised around campus *the ones here play similarily to the King of the Hill format, and the prizes for 1st and 2nd are also sponsored by the SGA so it's not all just quiz bowl*, you'll become more known. Give the more senior members some reason to feel like their spot is in Jeopardy, and you may see them perk up a bit.

5. Parents/Teachers vs. Students: BWAHAHAHAHA. Invite some profs or parents *who you have a good relationship with, of course, lol* to play against the students *make sure they know what they're doing first too, lol*. 99% of the time, the teachers and parents are amazed at how difficult it is, how well the youngins are doing, and the students get major bragging rights *I'M SMARTER THAN MY TEACHER, W00t*, that up their enthusiasm/confidence/etc etc yadda yadda.

6. Honors Program: If you establish an ongoing relationship with the students and leads of Honors, your name will be spread amongst the academia of the school, which is what you're ultimately aiming for. Our new head coach here at MD is the chair of the Honors Program, and in our first two nights of campus tournaments alone, we had over 50 people attend and play games.

In the end, variety is key. If I think of anything else, I'll let you know.

mmb5 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 21, 2008, 03:13:55 PM »

[quote name=\'wheelloon\' post=\'200155\' date=\'Oct 21 2008, 01:43 PM\']
3. Trash packets: People of all ages love this stuff. Who knows when it might come up too? Do a search online for "quiz bowl trash packets." I prefer this site, where I have about 200 MB's of word files full of questions, alone:

http://quizbowl.stanford.edu/archive/
[/quote]
Specifically look for packets marked "Ann B. Davis". I hear they're spectacularly edited.

If you want to scare your group, grab this set: http://quizbowl.stanford.edu/archive/artaud01/index.html

A wacky thing I used to do back when quiz bowl was fun was to multiply the score by the question number. Question two is worth 20, three 30 and so on. Consider it Goodson memorial scoring.

--Mike

Matt Ottinger · « **Reply #5 on:** October 21, 2008, 03:19:09 PM »

[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'200159\' date=\'Oct 21 2008, 03:13 PM\']
If you want to scare your group, grab this set: http://quizbowl.stanford.edu/archive/artaud01/index.html[/quote]
Holy cow. Was that seriously intended to be played competitively? And is there actually a caliber of play where that wouldn't elicit a lot of blank stares?

GameShowFan · « **Reply #6 on:** October 21, 2008, 07:01:55 PM »

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'200162\' date=\'Oct 21 2008, 02:19 PM\']
[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'200159\' date=\'Oct 21 2008, 03:13 PM\']
If you want to scare your group, grab this set: http://quizbowl.stanford.edu/archive/artaud01/index.html[/quote]
Holy cow. Was that seriously intended to be played competitively? And is there actually a caliber of play where that wouldn't elicit a lot of blank stares?
[/quote]

I haven't read the set in question, however... I read the first listed set of the first listed competition. Out of the 80 individual questions in the packet, I think I knew four.

Somehow, I don't think J! TOC brain burner boards will help when the material looks like that.

'Brian

mmb5 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 21, 2008, 08:30:08 PM »

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'200162\' date=\'Oct 21 2008, 03:19 PM\']
[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'200159\' date=\'Oct 21 2008, 03:13 PM\']
If you want to scare your group, grab this set: http://quizbowl.stanford.edu/archive/artaud01/index.html[/quote]
Holy cow. Was that seriously intended to be played competitively? And is there actually a caliber of play where that wouldn't elicit a lot of blank stares?
[/quote]
Yep. There were people who wanted to play those. And thus began (or at least sped up) the great quizbowl decline.

I moderated for that tournament -- ask Craig some day about "puppet states."

--Mike

mmb5 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 21, 2008, 08:34:10 PM »

[quote name=\'GameShowFan\' post=\'200183\' date=\'Oct 21 2008, 07:01 PM\']
I haven't read the set in question, however... I read the first listed set of the first listed competition. Out of the 80 individual questions in the packet, I think I knew four.
[/quote]
That's about the average level of difficulty for quizbowl now. And they wonder why only half the people play the game now than did 10 years ago.

--Mike

TLEberle · « **Reply #9 on:** October 21, 2008, 09:12:13 PM »

[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'200197\' date=\'Oct 21 2008, 05:34 PM\'][quote name=\'GameShowFan\' post=\'200183\' date=\'Oct 21 2008, 07:01 PM\']I haven't read the set in question, however... I read the first listed set of the first listed competition. Out of the 80 individual questions in the packet, I think I knew four.
[/quote]That's about the average level of difficulty for quizbowl now. And they wonder why only half the people play the game now than did 10 years ago.[/quote]I had to be extracted from under the desk after I read all that.

So, if you're like me and know a bit about a lot of things, but to the point where that first packet looks like you randomly started typing, what do you do? Are there separate divisions, like in Scrabble? There's no way that I could be competitive in a field where questions like that are desired, much less contested. But then I don't want to play just TRASH either.

/of course, this is all speculative anyhow, since I'm several years removed from being eligible to play on a college team.

wheelloon · « **Reply #10 on:** October 21, 2008, 10:33:12 PM »

[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'200197\' date=\'Oct 21 2008, 08:34 PM\']
[quote name=\'GameShowFan\' post=\'200183\' date=\'Oct 21 2008, 07:01 PM\']
I haven't read the set in question, however... I read the first listed set of the first listed competition. Out of the 80 individual questions in the packet, I think I knew four.
[/quote]
That's about the average level of difficulty for quizbowl now. And they wonder why only half the people play the game now than did 10 years ago.
[/quote]
They are very much the norm for difficulty these days, agreed. My high schoolers get questions pretty much exactly like those in their tournaments.

/For that matter then, I'll just download those questions now to burn them up next practice with. TY much, they're gonna love me...

[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'200201\' date=\'Oct 21 2008, 09:12 PM\']
So, if you're like me and know a bit about a lot of things, but to the point where that first packet looks like you randomly started typing, what do you do? Are there separate divisions, like in Scrabble? There's no way that I could be competitive in a field where questions like that are desired, much less contested. But then I don't want to play just TRASH either.
[/quote]
It really depends on where you are. In Delaware, where I went to high school for example, there were two tournaments, both which we entered annually. One was the more "academia" type knowledge, with very little or no pop culture/"trash" questions at all, the second was entirely pop culture, which was nicknamed the trash tourney. During our first years, we did better with the academia, but as time wore on *and we got older, maybe wiser*, we did better with the trash tournaments.

Long Summary: In Maryland *at least, the Eastern Shore*, the single tournament high schools participate in is a mix of everything, both trashesque and academic (leaning a bit more towards academic though for logical reasons). There isn't a separate tournament here for either, it's a one shot or bust. I personally wish there were two tournaments, much like in Delaware. I have a group where half the kids are strong academic wise, but not so much pop culture wise, while the other half is the opposite. I'd want both halves to get equal representation, but having one tourney doesn't usually allow such...

Material-wise, by what I've seen, the same goes for many college tournaments. Honda Campus All-Star Challenge is the one I participated in, and features both trash and academic questions in their games. However, since all the colleges that participate in it are HBCU's, there are a much heftier number of questions that deal with African-American history, culture, and the like than you'd find in other tournaments.

Short Summary: It just depends where you are and what your schools want.

TLEberle · « **Reply #11 on:** October 21, 2008, 11:47:04 PM »

[quote name=\'rollercoaster87\' post=\'200147\' date=\'Oct 21 2008, 09:29 AM\']I'm the captain of our school's college bowl team, and lately it seems that our practices have gotten a bit "stale" lately. We usually go through regulation packets, but we'll sometimes just go through Jeopardy! boards or play Trivial Pursuit to break the rhythm of playing game material. Lately, though, it seems that they aren't all that engaged. Does anybody have any suggestions as to strategies/drills that I can use?[/quote] This is just one guy's opinion, but it seems like Trivial Pursuit and Jeopardy! would be the opposite of what you want to do. The two games test separate skills, and spending time on questions that aren't going to come up means you spend less time working on stuff that the players will see. Yeah, it can get boring, but you're all there for one thing, right?

Given that, here are two things to try. First is writing your own questions. Start with the "answer" and see what sort of facts can be discovered that are interesting and would possibly come up in a toss-up or bonus. You're not going to be asked to "name this first U.S. President," so see what the team can learn about George Washington.

The other is matching facts. Knowing your basic stuff like capital cities and countries, artists and their works and stuff that can be drilled. Have playoffs within the group to emphasize the speed and accuracy. This can be 1) fun and 2) educational. Try it at home!

Quote

If anybody also has any suggestion on how to bring new players aboard without intimidating them, I would appreciate it.

Here's the other side. Our group trundled along, did the drills, played the packets and what have you, and when it came time for the big tournament, no one showed up. It would be better for you to say "Here's what we do, here's what we're about" up front, so that those who are scared will be weeded out early.

The exercise is not for the faint of heart, for sure. But there's also the whole thing about joining clubs to meet people and/or have fun. And if those goals aren't being achieved, then what's the point of it all?

Jeremy Nelson · « **Reply #12 on:** October 22, 2008, 12:16:36 AM »

[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'200213\' date=\'Oct 21 2008, 10:47 PM\']
It would be better for you to say "Here's what we do, here's what we're about" up front, so that those who are scared will be weeded out early.
[/quote]
Most of the time, telling them outright leads to an empty room. Just watch the bobsled instructional video scene from Cool Runnings, and that's what'll most likely happen.

We just started our campus tournament tonight. Honda Campus All Star Challenge sends us a set of "campus tournament packets", which have about 30% serious matrials, 20% current events, and the rest are pop culture/TRASH questions, so we can ease in people who are mildly interested in the game. If someone's having at least an ounce of fun, then we bring them to our real practice and let them decide for themselves. Attendance afterwards tells us everything we need to know.

urbanpreppie05 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 22, 2008, 01:55:44 PM »

[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'200197\' date=\'Oct 21 2008, 08:34 PM\']
[quote name=\'GameShowFan\' post=\'200183\' date=\'Oct 21 2008, 07:01 PM\']
I haven't read the set in question, however... I read the first listed set of the first listed competition. Out of the 80 individual questions in the packet, I think I knew four.
[/quote]
That's about the average level of difficulty for quizbowl now. And they wonder why only half the people play the game now than did 10 years ago.

--Mike
[/quote]

That's just sadistic. Yes, I know College and Quiz Bowls should have hard questions for the elite, but how would ANYONE garner interest with that? Sigh.

/former coordinator
//and "coach"
//and moderator
///and travel coordinator
////but not judge