1958 Concentration shows

[Britgirl57]

I am in search of a couple of very early (probably 1958) episodes of Concentration hosted by Hugh Downs featuring my father (a bearded Brit) as a contestant. He is celebrating his 80th birthday in April and I would love to be able to surprise him with a video of his appearance on the show. I understand that NBC destroyed most of the early episodes of the show but I'm hoping against hope that someone might know if any of these episodes escaped the mass destruction or were copied and could point me in the right direction to find them. I'm sorry to be so vague about the dates. Can anybody out there help me out?

[MrBuddwing]

[quote name=\'Britgirl57\' post=\'146329\' date=\'Feb 19 2007, 12:54 PM\']
I am in search of a couple of very early (probably 1958) episodes of Concentration hosted by Hugh Downs featuring my father (a bearded Brit) as a contestant. He is celebrating his 80th birthday in April and I would love to be able to surprise him with a video of his appearance on the show. I understand that NBC destroyed most of the early episodes of the show but I'm hoping against hope that someone might know if any of these episodes escaped the mass destruction or were copied and could point me in the right direction to find them. I'm sorry to be so vague about the dates. Can anybody out there help me out?
[/quote]

There is good news, bad news, and unconfirmed news on this score.

Yes, NBC destroyed a ton of its early stuff, including practically all episodes of the original "Jeopardy!" and "The Match Game." But I was startled - and delighted - to hear from other people on this board that, for whatever reason, NBC held onto its episodes of "Concentration" and ended up donating the whole kit and keboodle to the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C.

I've been meaning to visit the library to confirm this first-hand (I live in the D.C. area).

So the good (albeit unconfirmed) news is: Most, if not all, of the original "Concentration" episodes reportedly exist.

The news is downhill from there. Supposedly, the tapes, kinescopes or whatever have not been catalogued, and as such are well-nigh impossible for outside researchers to get at.

The thing is, if your father's episode does exist, and if the LC would be willing to copy it for you, how much would you be willing to spend? For reasons too boring to get into, I once made inquiries about obtaining a copy of "Ted Mack and the Original Amateur Hour" from the LC. Would you believe it would have cost $400? And that's a show that is more readily available to outsiders. Plus, there's the whole business of getting NBC's permission in addition to whatever machinations need to take place at the Library.

The bottom line is, you have a slim chance - which is certainly better than no chance at all. I suggest contacting the LC and asking.

[Britgirl57]

Thanks a million for that response. This gives me some hope. I live in the DC area too so will be able to check directly with the LoC. I'll face the question of money when and if I ever get to that point!
Thanks again, Mr. Buddwing.

[MrBuddwing]

[quote name=\'Britgirl57\' post=\'146344\' date=\'Feb 19 2007, 02:45 PM\']
Thanks a million for that response. This gives me some hope. I live in the DC area too so will be able to check directly with the LoC. I'll face the question of money when and if I ever get to that point!
[/quote]

Please let us know how it turns out - it so happens I know someone who was on the original "Concentration."

[TwoInchQuad]

Unfortunately, the bulk of the episodes are **not** among the assets that were donated by NBC to the LOC...  they have been retained by the network.

-Kevin

[MrBuddwing]

[quote name=\'TwoInchQuad\' post=\'146388\' date=\'Feb 19 2007, 08:52 PM\']
Unfortunately, the bulk of the episodes are **not** among the assets that were donated by NBC to the LOC...  they have been retained by the network.
-Kevin
[/quote]


Oh, %$#@! - and I thought I was being helpful.

But I am curious as to why NBC saved the shows to begin with, given all the other stuff they junked.

[Jimmy Owen]

[quote name=\'MrBuddwing\' post=\'146421\' date=\'Feb 20 2007, 01:30 AM\']
[quote name=\'TwoInchQuad\' post=\'146388\' date=\'Feb 19 2007, 08:52 PM\']
Unfortunately, the bulk of the episodes are **not** among the assets that were donated by NBC to the LOC...  they have been retained by the network.
-Kevin
[/quote]


Oh, %$#@! - and I thought I was being helpful.

But I am curious as to why NBC saved the shows to begin with, given all the other stuff they junked.
[/quote]

Easy.  They own "Concentration."  The other game shows of the era were owned by somebody else.  Even if NBC had kept the other shows, they couldn't use them.  It's sorta like if a friend gave you a video tape and didn't care if you erased it.  Would you keep it or erase it?

[Britgirl57]

Thanks for both of your input. I'm going to call the Library of Congress today and find out what they have - if anything - and then I'll tackle NBC. I'll let you know what I find out. At least there's a glimmer of hope that the episodes might still exist somewhere.

[Steve Gavazzi]

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'146427\' date=\'Feb 20 2007, 02:16 AM\']
Easy.  They own "Concentration."  The other game shows of the era were owned by somebody else.  Even if NBC had kept the other shows, they couldn't use them.  It's sorta like if a friend gave you a video tape and didn't care if you erased it.  Would you keep it or erase it?
[/quote]

Depends.  Does the tape have any 50-year-old episodes of Concentration on it? :-)

[Britgirl57]

Okay, so today I called the Motion Picture and and Television Reading Room at the Library of Congress, and a very helpful librarian checked and said that the LoC has five Concentration episodes from 1958 (Oct 9, 13, 14, 15 and Nov 5) and another five from 1959 (Feb 6, 12 and maybe 13 - sorry, my notes aren't clear -  April 6, and August 25). Even if this material is actually "on the shelf" (i.e. available to be copied), one would still have to get NBC's permission before the LoC could do so.

I think they may have more episodes from a later period but I forgot to ask about that - sorry.  

So now I'm going to a) call NBC to see if they have any other episodes from that time period and b) try desperately to find someone (anyone) from my Dad's past who might remember the specific dates when he was on the show.

I'll keep you all posted about what I find out. Thanks for all your help. I was probably insane to have started this wild goose chase in the first place but now I've got the bit between my teeth I'm determined to see it through - one way or another!

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'Britgirl57\' post=\'146475\' date=\'Feb 20 2007, 06:42 PM\']I'll keep you all posted about what I find out. Thanks for all your help. I was probably insane to have started this wild goose chase in the first place but now I've got the bit between my teeth I'm determined to see it through - one way or another![/quote]
Britgirl, trust me when I say that WE appreciate you doing all this legwork as well!  Understanding precisely what the LOC and NBC have (and precisely what they're willing to do with it) is going to be very useful information, especially for us old-timers who have a fondness for the original Concentration.

[JamesVipond]

I was once told (I forget by whom) that the FCC ordered NBC to surrender the Downs/Clayton/McMahon episodes of Concentration to what is now Republic Pictures, part of the CBS Corporation. After she talks with NBC, Britgirl57 may want to call or write to Republic Pictures.

[tvmitch]

Random question: would any of these shows fall under public domain in the near future? What rules govern public domain of specific episodes if the intellectual property (the format) is still "owned" by a certain group?

[dzinkin]

[quote name=\'JamesVipond\' post=\'146539\' date=\'Feb 21 2007, 10:12 AM\']
I was once told (I forget by whom) that the FCC ordered NBC to surrender the Downs/Clayton/McMahon episodes of Concentration to what is now Republic Pictures, part of the CBS Corporation. After she talks with NBC, Britgirl57 may want to call or write to Republic Pictures.
[/quote]
Barring something more substantial than "I forget by whom," Britgirl is probably best off not wasting her time going that route.  Why would the FCC have that authority in the first place, never mind actually do it?

Sorry, but to me, that claim just has the "Merv ordered all the Woolery Wheel episodes erased because he hated Chuck" smell.

[Jimmy Owen]

Where the confusion may be happening was that ,in the early 70's the Justice Department ordered the networks to get out of the syndication business.  NBC's syndication holdings (Bonanza, Get Smart, Car 54, etc.) went to National Telefilm Associates which also had possession of the Republic Pictures catalog. They later changed their name to Republic Pictures and that library in now in the hands of CBS.  In 72, the CBS holdings formed what became Viacom and the ABC syndication arm's holdings were spun-off to Worldvision.  What's ironic now is that Republic, Viacom and Worldvision are now under the CBS umbrella.  

Not sure if "Concentration" was affected as the original never was in syndication and Victory Television distributed the Narz version. For some strange reason Victory also got a distribution credit on the Trebek version.