Pyramid Judging

[mcsittel]

I just watched a tournament episode of $100K Pyramid where the lady won the $100K thanks to Linda Kelsey, who gave as a clue of "Red Light Traffic" for "THINGS THAT STOP".

I was kind of surprised this was an acceptable clue.  If you were judging, would *you* have allowed it?

[tpirfan28]

Reactionary:  I would let it through.

After review:  Eh...it really doesn't fit the box (would fit THINGS THAT ARE STOPPED), but I'd mill over it and probably still let it through.

[bandit_bobby]

I would NOT have allowed that, because I felt that clue was too specific.

[Unrealtor]

Yes. Traffic stops at a red light.

For it describing "things that are stopped", if a contestant gave that for "things that stop", I'd give them the box, so it seems fair to allow the occasional clue that wanders over into different forms of the keyword.

[TLEberle]

[quote name=\'bandit_bobby\' post=\'181855\' date=\'Mar 18 2008, 07:05 PM\']I would NOT have allowed that, because I felt that clue was too specific.[/quote]On what grounds?

[adamkendall]

[quote name=\'mcsittel\' post=\'181843\' date=\'Mar 18 2008, 07:08 PM\']

I would not have allowed it, and I remember watching this episode and being surprised that they let it though.  Is there really such a thing as "red-light traffic"?  

I remember another episode where a celebrity wanted to use "pre-Columbus' Earth" as a clue for "THINGS THAT ARE FLAT."  Dick Clark confirmed that the clue would not have been allowed because there is "no such thing" as the pre-Columbus Earth.  There is also no such thing as red-light traffic, or is there?

Adam Kendall
Minneapolis, Minnesota


I just watched a tournament episode of $100K Pyramid where the lady won the $100K thanks to Linda Kelsey, who gave as a clue of "Red Light Traffic" for "THINGS THAT STOP".

I was kind of surprised this was an acceptable clue.  If you were judging, would *you* have allowed it?
[/quote]

[J.R.]

[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'181871\' date=\'Mar 19 2008, 12:03 AM\']
[quote name=\'bandit_bobby\' post=\'181855\' date=\'Mar 18 2008, 07:05 PM\']I would NOT have allowed that, because I felt that clue was too specific.[/quote]On what grounds?
[/quote]
I wouldn't stay up late waiting for a response.

[BrandonFG]

[quote name=\'bandit_bobby\' post=\'181855\' date=\'Mar 18 2008, 10:05 PM\']
I would NOT have allowed that, because I felt that clue was too specific.
[/quote]
In that case...

Yes, I would definitely allow it. No questions asked!

I think the one rule is that the clue must make contextual sense, where it doesn't sound awkward, no? In this case, it sounds fine, and despite Spongebob's post, it's not too specific. Like unrealtor said, traffic stops at a red light as opposed to green (or in Virginia, yellow), so the clue fits.

[Matt Ottinger]

I'm thinking I don't take it, though I'm having a hard time justifying that call given the rules as we know them to be.  'Red Light Traffic' is clearly a way of trying to get around 'Traffic at a red light', which of course is not allowed.  I've seen some convoluted terms invented to avoid the prepositional phrase, but this one just appears on the surface to be a little too made-up.  Like I said, though, I'm not sure I have a strong argument.

[dzinkin]

[quote name=\'bandit_bobby\' post=\'181855\' date=\'Mar 18 2008, 10:05 PM\']
I would NOT have allowed that, because I felt that clue was too specific.
[/quote]
http://gizmodo.com/360079/spongebob-square...the-wrong-place

[JasonA1]

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'181888\' date=\'Mar 19 2008, 08:39 AM\']
I've seen some convoluted terms invented to avoid the prepositional phrase, but this one just appears on the surface to be a little too made-up.
[/quote]

I agree. When would one use that phrase in real life? You can "green light" something, but I've never heard anybody "red light" something. Although it's immaterial, because like the first few to respond, I'd have let it through on instinct. Frankly, isn't "a braking car" a perfectly legal, and arguably better, clue? (We've of course had the benefit of mulling this over, without the pressure of 60 seconds and $100,000)

-Jason

[Chuck Sutton]

To go in a completely different direction.  People who shop at mall or stores are sometimes referred to as "Mall Traffic" or "Store Traffic".  In certain areas of the world, the "seedy" areas are called the Red Light District.  Couldn't the men that shop there be called "Red Light Traffic"?  And isn't the point that they stop and buy "something"?

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'181888\' date=\'Mar 19 2008, 05:39 AM\']
I'm thinking I don't take it, though I'm having a hard time justifying that call given the rules as we know them to be.  'Red Light Traffic' is clearly a way of trying to get around 'Traffic at a red light', which of course is not allowed.  I've seen some convoluted terms invented to avoid the prepositional phrase, but this one just appears on the surface to be a little too made-up.  Like I said, though, I'm not sure I have a strong argument.
[/quote]
I don't think you do. I'm not sure where that's different from "The Hall of Fame books" or "Walt Disney dog", both of which not only walked, but won someone $100K.
[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'181899\' date=\'Mar 19 2008, 08:25 AM\']
I agree. When would one use that phrase in real life? You can "green light" something, but I've never heard anybody "red light" something.[/quote]
Oh, I have.

Frankly, isn't "a braking car" a perfectly legal, and arguably better, clue?

Probably, but this isn't a discussion of what the best clue is, this is one of whether the cited one is legal, no more and no less.
[quote name=\'Chuck Sutton\' post=\'181908\' date=\'Mar 19 2008, 09:45 AM\']And isn't the point that they stop and buy "something"?[/quote]
Or a little something-something, as it were.

[Jimmy Owen]

"Red light" is something that stops and "traffic" is something that stops, so I would err on the side of yellow light and allow the list.

[scottwa]

[THINGS THAT STOP]

Grammatically, you are looking at a verb that is both transitive and intransitive, aka ambitransitive.

A defective clock can stop. (intransitive)
A crime-fighter can stop thieves. (transitive)
A red light can stop traffic. (transitive)

The verb, as written, can be taken either way.  And, there is no direct or indirect object given within the subject.

> If the clue given is “a red light”:

"Red" and "light" are not synonymous for the verb "stop" -- no *defined* connection.

No synonyms and no grammar misuse.  Looks legal to me; I'd allow it.

> As for the specific “red-light traffic” clue:

There is precedence for “red-light” being used in adjective form as in “red-light district” (insert joke here).  And you could have a red-light warning, red-light condition, etc.

Traffic exists in a red-light condition.  That seems to be allowable as well.


I've always wondered about what would pass for a possessive relationship clue, i.e. “a red-light’s traffic”.  I remember the old WC round with Teresa Ganzel for [THINGS THAT ARE REVIEWED] when she gave the clue "a critic's play".  However, a critic is a person, and potentially a playwright.


Just piling on a little bit more…

--scottwa