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Author Topic: Paul Alter  (Read 51764 times)

chad1m

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Paul Alter
« Reply #150 on: May 12, 2009, 06:39:30 PM »
[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'215541\' date=\'May 12 2009, 06:30 PM\']there is no reason not to name sources if called upon to do so.[/quote]Approves.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 06:40:03 PM by chad1m »

J.R.

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Paul Alter
« Reply #151 on: May 12, 2009, 06:49:55 PM »
[quote name=\'chad1m\' post=\'215545\' date=\'May 12 2009, 05:39 PM\']Approves.[/quote]
Well played.

/Remind me not to trust PYLDude with a secret.
-Joe Raygor

cmjb13

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Paul Alter
« Reply #152 on: May 12, 2009, 06:52:30 PM »
[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215535\' date=\'May 12 2009, 05:55 PM\']But Curling’s most recent deposition was crucial regarding Eskander and he was gone within days after she testified.[/quote]
So Drew didn't fire him? Interesting
Enjoy lots and lots of backstage TPIR photos and other fun stuff here. And yes, I did park in Syd Vinnedge's parking spot at CBS

pentellit

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Paul Alter
« Reply #153 on: May 12, 2009, 06:53:42 PM »
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215539\' date=\'May 12 2009, 03:27 PM\']Question: Was Bob Barker an employee of CBS? If not, how could CBS force the retirement of someone who was not their employee?[/quote]
Barker is a free agent.  But he was also the Executive Producer of a show that CBS contracts for.

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I don't doubt your account of events, but how was Deborah Curling harmed by racial discrimination against potential contestants? She was not the victim of this discrimination as she was never a potential contestant.
Curling's lawsuit is not about racial discrimination she experienced, it is about the retaliation she experienced after reporting it, which is illegal.

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Curling refused to sign and had to quit her job in order to preserve her legal rights.
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It's clear Curling had the option of continuing to work and being bound by the CBS agreement.
Part of the agreement was a non-disclosure/hush clause.  Just like Hallstrom before her, Curling did not want to surrender her first amendment right to free speech, especially if it was not mutual and reciprocal.  She would also have to agree that if a court later found the document to be illegal, it would still be binding.  And alot of other agreements too numerous to name and certainly compromising to agree to.

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when did CBS become aware of the conditions on Price that the lawsuit arises from, and what action did they take in response.
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CBS does not own any part of TPIR so why is it their problem? It's Fremantle's problem; they own the show lock, stock and barrel.
The lawsuit is against CBS.

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As a G-T vet I can tell you that any game show is totally within its rights to cast or not cast anyone they please as a contestant, and to discriminate or not discriminate against any potential contestant. A game show is considered an artistic work and the producers have complete latitude in this area under the First Amendment. If you go down the path of discrimination on the basis of this, that or the other, there are serious First Amendment issues involved. Just as Steven Spielberg has complete and total freedom and latitude to cast or not cast anyone he want to in his motion pictures, Stan has complete and total freedom and latitude with regard to contestant selection.
Not if the discrimination is based solely on race.

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It was a very tense time at CBS, Freemantle and especially on 33. That whole week before Curling’s decision people were worried and preoccupied and there were numerous screw-ups, mishaps, stop tapes, including Barker flat out forgetting how to play a game.
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I don't doubt this, and it would account for Barker's fluff while playing Dice Game. Still, there are many, many pieces missing from this puzzle. Fremantle had a long history of defending Barker and settling with aggrieved parties and was named as a co-defendant in the suit. So why should they buckle when Deborah Curling sued?
I suspect, and this is just my opinion based on the facts as I know them, that Freemantle was probably happy to finally get rid of Barker.  All the lawsuits, the bad press, the millions spent on lawyers and payoffs, twenty years of the TPIR library unusable (and all that potential profit) because of Barker's death grip over it.  The show's ratings had declined etc, etc, etc.  This suit is also potentially bigger and badder than anything ever seen before.

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I'm sorry but I have to say it: Deborah Curling was not a major player on the show. She was not in the cast, she was not a producer or director.
No she wasn't.  But oh wow, she was the whistle blower!
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 07:59:47 PM by chris319 »

PYLdude

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Paul Alter
« Reply #154 on: May 12, 2009, 06:58:21 PM »
[quote name=\'cmjb13\' post=\'215549\' date=\'May 12 2009, 05:52 PM\'][quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215535\' date=\'May 12 2009, 05:55 PM\']But Curling’s most recent deposition was crucial regarding Eskander and he was gone within days after she testified.[/quote]
So Drew didn't fire him? Interesting
[/quote]

Wait...I think I'm confused here.

Who has the power to hire and fire the director of TPIR...CBS or Fremantle? (I'm lost because in all this talk about Deborah Curling being a CBS employee and not a G-T/successor, this comes up and now it has me scratching my head. Unless CBS put pressure on the producers of TPIR to do the deed, in which case it'd probably make sense...)
I suppose you can still learn stuff on TLC, though it would be more in the Goofus & Gallant sense, that is (don't do what these parents did)"- Travis Eberle, 2012

“We’re game show fans. ‘Weird’ comes with the territory.” - Matt Ottinger, 2022

pentellit

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Paul Alter
« Reply #155 on: May 12, 2009, 07:16:08 PM »
QUOTE (PYLdude @ May 12 2009, 06:30 PM)

So Drew didn't fire him? Interesting.

I have not heard of Drew firing anyone.

Wait...I think I'm confused here.

Who has the power to hire and fire the director of TPIR...CBS or Fremantle? (I'm lost because in all this talk about Deborah Curling being a CBS employee and not a G-T/successor, this comes up and now it has me scratching my head. Unless CBS put pressure on the producers of TPIR to do the deed, in which case it'd probably make sense...)

I think that if this thing should go to court, then everyone is going to be eager to be able to say something to the effect of "As soon as we found out about the situation we .........."(fill in the blanks).

JasonA1

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Paul Alter
« Reply #156 on: May 12, 2009, 07:45:47 PM »
With regard to PYLDude's retort, I was never trying to discredit pentellit. I believe his/her postings. These "walls" have been filled with people we take as being honest on face value. One person purported to be a former MGHSH contestant who apparently never was. That story was as valid on the surface as some tales of NYC Pyramid tapings that were posted. For all we know, pentellit could be somebody piecing together a backstory based on backstage info given on the internet and in lawsuits, peppered with a few names from the Price credits. Not that I believe that, but it's no more or less credible than Steve, who works on a website populated by past and present TPIR crew. Unless you want to believe Steve would make up pricing game line ups for over 30 years of shows, and minute details of episodes that haven't been rerun, he's gotta be getting the info from some credible source.

As for the whole naming sources thing, your standards are much too high. I had a friend in college who was a janitor. It was the highest paying job on campus - nearly $10 an hour. Once, his manager cut corners but not deep cleaning a mat on which a karate student had bled earlier in the day. He blew the whistle to the school paper, but chose to remain anonymous to protect his job. Pentellit is just as anonymous. And that's his/her right to bring us this inside information. The person you're defending has less abject credibility than Steve. And again, I take pentellit's posts as gospel until proven otherwise.

-Jason
Game Show Forum Muckety-Muck

chris319

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Paul Alter
« Reply #157 on: May 12, 2009, 08:25:17 PM »
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he was also the Executive Producer of a show that CBS contracts for.
Again, CBS has no ownership stake in TPIR, so how can they be held liable for the actions of Fremantle? I highly suspect that Barker was employed by Fremantle as Executive Producer. Can you prove me wrong? AFAIK there was no employment relationship between CBS and Barker.

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Curling's lawsuit is not about racial discrimination she experienced, it is about the retaliation she experienced after reporting it, which is illegal.
She was moved to an area backstage and CBS wanted her to sign an agreement, but she would still be allowed to keep working, I presume at her same salary. Some retaliation.

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Part of the agreement was a non-disclosure/hush clause. Just like Hallstrom before her, Curling did not want to surrender her first amendment right to free speech, especially if it was not mutual and reciprocal.
That was Deborah's decision.

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The lawsuit is against CBS.
It's also against Fremantle; they're named as a co-defendant.

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Not if the discrimination is based solely on race.
I highly doubt this. Can you cite a legitimate legal opinion? Name one casting director who has ever been sued for casting or not casting someone based on race where the plaintiff prevailed.

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I suspect, and this is just my opinion based on the facts as I know them, that Fremantle was probably happy to finally get rid of Barker. All the lawsuits, the bad press, the millions spent on lawyers and payoffs, twenty years of the TPIR library unusable (and all that potential profit) because of Barker's death grip over it. The show's ratings had declined etc, etc, etc. This suit is also potentially bigger and badder than anything ever seen before.
I don't doubt that they finally wanted to be rid of him. Hell, if I were Mark Goodson I would have dumped him in 1986 when he wanted to be made E.P. while Frank was still alive and before he got mixed up with Dian. I would be willing to believe that, once named as defendants, CBS started putting a little pressure on Fremantle to get rid of Barker, but Fremantle ultimately had to do the deed due to the relationships of the various parties (you can't fire someone who isn't your employee, and you can't terminate a contract with someone you don't have a contract with).

Thanks for sharing this information, pentellit. This is all our own personal opinion, of course. And in the future, please preview your posts so that the quote formatting comes out OK. Thanks :-)

NickS

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Paul Alter
« Reply #158 on: May 12, 2009, 08:35:21 PM »
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'215569\' date=\'May 12 2009, 07:25 PM\']
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Curling's lawsuit is not about racial discrimination she experienced, it is about the retaliation she experienced after reporting it, which is illegal.
She was moved to an area backstage and CBS wanted her to sign an agreement, but she would still be allowed to keep working, I presume at her same salary. Some retaliation.[/quote]

Chris, this is the only part of your reply that I have to disagree with; FWIW, Curling can still be working in capacity but if they're diminishing her work after she blew the whistle on something - if memory serves me right, that's a legal Bozo no-no.

Pentellit said:
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Well, I was warned that this place can get lively!

I'll be shortly be putting a proposal to rename the thread "Barker's Snarkers."

Steve Gavazzi

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Paul Alter
« Reply #159 on: May 12, 2009, 08:54:29 PM »
I'd like to put forth a hypothetical here.

Suppose the staff did have to make markings on the contestant lists indicating when Stan picked a black person.  Now, what if the reason they did this was not to limit things to two black people per day (a notion that I'm pretty sure watching a few episodes would make look ridiculous, anyway) but instead was to make sure they called at least one?  Barker always said that they wanted The Price Is Right to be "a cross-section of America," so it's entirely possible that they wanted to fit in black people, Asian people, old people, military people, college people -- people who are generally viewed by the public as significant subsets of the total population -- any time they had someone from one of those groups who would make a good contestant.  If they took extra care to mark when someone black was picked, maybe that's because they didn't want someone to turn on the show the morning they didn't pick one, see nine white people come on down, and think, "Wow, The Price Is Right is racist!  They don't have any black contestants!"

Now, if this is what was happening, and a disgruntled employee decided she was going to take it public and omit the reasoning, wouldn't it make you a little nervous if you worked there?  Even if it's being done for a completely legitimate reason, it sounds bad.

NickS

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Paul Alter
« Reply #160 on: May 12, 2009, 09:15:11 PM »
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'215571\' date=\'May 12 2009, 07:54 PM\']If they took extra care to mark when someone black was picked, maybe that's because they didn't want someone to turn on the show the morning they didn't pick one, see nine white people come on down, and think, "Wow, The Price Is Right is racist!  They don't have any black contestants!"[/quote]


I don't know if it's just me, but I usually don't watch the show for the cross-section/sociological reasons.  Just sayin.'

CarShark

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Paul Alter
« Reply #161 on: May 12, 2009, 09:17:45 PM »
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'215571\' date=\'May 12 2009, 08:54 PM\']I'd like to put forth a hypothetical here.

Suppose the staff did have to make markings on the contestant lists indicating when Stan picked a black person.  Now, what if the reason they did this was not to limit things to two black people per day (a notion that I'm pretty sure watching a few episodes would make look ridiculous, anyway) but instead was to make sure they called at least one?[/quote]
Then the next question I would ask is, "Were there any other demographic groups designated with such markings?" If there were, then the "diversity" argument would seem more plausible to me. I still wouldn't like it, because I don't think that certain contestants should be given preference because of said characteristics, but at least it would seem less sinister. If not, then I'd have to ask why blacks were singled out.

Of all the parts of all the lawsuits I can remember, this is the one that made the least sense to me. First off, who determined what "conforming to racial stereotypes" meant? What did that person arrive at? Being loud? Outgoing? Excitable? That describes 99% of TPIR contestants. Being heavy-set? Now we're down to maybe half. What if you had a black person that was in the military? Does that override the previous?

Steve's hypothetical put me in mind of the criticism Millionaire faced when it was big. I remember hearing that people were saying that because white, middle-aged professional males played more video games, they had an "unfair" advantage during the phone-in portion of the contestant selection process...or something. And deaf and blind people sued, and it was a big mess, and eventually they dropped the phone-in game. Maybe something similar was at work there.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 10:17:13 PM by CarShark »

Matt Ottinger

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Paul Alter
« Reply #162 on: May 12, 2009, 09:19:30 PM »
[quote name=\'PYLdude\' post=\'215541\' date=\'May 12 2009, 06:30 PM\']My theory is this...unless you have information that either a) could potentially compromise national security (in any way) or b) can cause immediate physical harm to someone, there is no reason not to name sources if called upon to do so.[/quote]
Quoted just to note that this is an extremely narrow view of how anonymous sources work.  There simply are other reasons.
This has been another installment of Matt Ottinger's Masters of the Obvious.
Stay tuned for all the obsessive-compulsive fun of Words Have Meanings.

Millionaire81

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Paul Alter
« Reply #163 on: May 12, 2009, 09:21:48 PM »
[quote name=\'pentellit\' post=\'215535\' date=\'May 12 2009, 04:55 PM\']These were hard working long time employees who lost their jobs, their retirement, their health care, their friends, their lives as they knew them all because they wouldn’t lie, wouldn’t allow themselves or others to be discriminated against, wouldn’t break the law.  They are people who spoke out, spoke up, spoke truthfully, refused to have sex, or refused to sign compromising legal documents.[/quote]

BOOOOOO!

chris319

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Paul Alter
« Reply #164 on: May 12, 2009, 09:25:25 PM »
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Curling can still be working in capacity but if they're diminishing her work after she blew the whistle on something - if memory serves me right, that's a legal Bozo no-no.
As I understand it, as long as she is still receiving her full salary and benefits, they could literally have her stay home all day long and there would not be a problem. In fact, one of the networks actually used to do this. A number of their engineers who had become old fossils were kept on the payroll with full salary, benefits and even union protection, but they were not scheduled to work. They could play golf, go to the beach, visit the grandkids, whatever, and they didn't have to come in to work. It was basically a salaried early retirement.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 09:25:46 PM by chris319 »