Author Topic: Scrabble "Tiles" (Read 11886 times)

Neumms · « **Reply #15 on:** July 14, 2010, 10:29:16 AM »

[quote name=\'Jeremy Nelson\' post=\'244103\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 09:09 AM\'][quote name=\'Craig Karlberg\' post=\'244098\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 02:27 AM\']Say if there's more than one of the same letter involved with a given word. How do they determine which one(s) are good & which are the Stopper(s)? I figured there's some sort of priority system in that regard.[/quote]
I thought that if they had duplicates, the first time the letter is chosen is always the good one, while the duplicate then became a stopper.
[/quote]

Or. . . what if they just picked a totally different letter for the stopper?

clemon79 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 14, 2010, 01:28:34 PM »

[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'244105\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 07:29 AM\']Or. . . what if they just picked a totally different letter for the stopper?[/quote]
Then the potential for a Michael Larsen situation comes up. It wouldn't take some basement-dweller long to figure out "hey, if I pull double letters, I can place them both safely," and then have an advantage. Fairer to decide what the stoppers will be totally / mostly at random.

(If Jeremy's rule is correct, it works because a player has no choice but to place the first letter after drawing two / a second.)

SRIV94 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 14, 2010, 01:53:08 PM »

[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'244111\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 12:28 PM\'][quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'244105\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 07:29 AM\']Or. . . what if they just picked a totally different letter for the stopper?[/quote]
Then the potential for a Michael Larsen situation comes up. It wouldn't take some basement-dweller long to figure out "hey, if I pull double letters, I can place them both safely," and then have an advantage. Fairer to decide what the stoppers will be totally / mostly at random.

(If Jeremy's rule is correct, it works because a player has no choice but to place the first letter after drawing two / a second.)
[/quote]
I'm 99.9% sure Jeremy's rule is indeed correct. And you pretty much knew you were screwed if you drew two S's and the first fit into the last position of the word.

clemon79 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 14, 2010, 02:06:04 PM »

[quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'244112\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 10:53 AM\']I'm 99.9% sure Jeremy's rule is indeed correct. And you pretty much knew you were screwed if you drew two S's and the first fit into the last position of the word.[/quote]
I think it is too. I just didn't want to say definitively since it's been so long since I've seen it.

NickintheATL · « **Reply #19 on:** July 14, 2010, 02:12:48 PM »

Every time I remember seeing the show way back when, in this situation, that is exactly what happened. First good, second stopper.

gameshowcrazy · « **Reply #20 on:** July 14, 2010, 04:12:48 PM »

From memory:

The tiles would've all had pre-determined letters. This makes the game on budget with the technology of the 80s. I'm not saying bar coding/RFID type stuff was impossible back then, but let's be realistic about what they would've likely used.

If there were two of the same letter in the word, a contestant picks two S, the word is assinine, the first time S is chosen it would fall into the 2nd space in the word, and the second time the S is chosen, it would fall into the 3rd space in the word.

This also follows if the player picked two A tiles, the first would fall into the 1st space in the word, the second would be the stopper.

As for the Scrabble Sprint, since two players had the same words to play (in the better versions of the show), the first two letters to appear were (I think my memory is correct here) always the same, and then everything else was random.

I never really knew how those letters were displayed as they had to be constantly shuffled around.

Scrabble was a show that almost always had the disclaimer read by Charlie Tuna during the credits, something like, "due to technical difficulties, portions of filming not affecting the outcome of the game were edited." I always figured out the equipment for the sprint rounds was tough to manage.

Neumms · « **Reply #21 on:** July 14, 2010, 05:21:14 PM »

[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'244111\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 12:28 PM\'][quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'244105\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 07:29 AM\']Or. . . what if they just picked a totally different letter for the stopper?[/quote]
Then the potential for a Michael Larsen situation comes up. It wouldn't take some basement-dweller long to figure out "hey, if I pull double letters, I can place them both safely," and then have an advantage. Fairer to decide what the stoppers will be totally / mostly at random.

(If Jeremy's rule is correct, it works because a player has no choice but to place the first letter after drawing two / a second.)
[/quote]

Wow, it could cost NBC, like, hundreds of dollars! It wouldn't really be unfair--it could happen to either player. But yeah, throwing in a stopper that duplicates a letter in the puzzle once in a while is a less lazy, more satisfactory way to go.

DJDustman · « **Reply #22 on:** July 14, 2010, 05:32:49 PM »

[quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'244112\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 01:53 PM\'][quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'244111\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 12:28 PM\'][quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'244105\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 07:29 AM\']Or. . . what if they just picked a totally different letter for the stopper?[/quote]
Then the potential for a Michael Larsen situation comes up. It wouldn't take some basement-dweller long to figure out "hey, if I pull double letters, I can place them both safely," and then have an advantage. Fairer to decide what the stoppers will be totally / mostly at random.

(If Jeremy's rule is correct, it works because a player has no choice but to place the first letter after drawing two / a second.)
[/quote]
I'm 99.9% sure Jeremy's rule is indeed correct. And you pretty much knew you were screwed if you drew two S's and the first fit into the last position of the word.
[/quote]

This is where you would buzz in and make some random wrong guess (or take too long) and get it wrong on purpose. Then the opponent has a choice of potentially another bad letter plus the one you may know is a stopper. It's kind of like passing a stopper to someone.

clemon79 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 14, 2010, 05:39:20 PM »

[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'244122\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 02:21 PM\']Wow, it could cost NBC, like, hundreds of dollars! It wouldn't really be unfair--it could happen to either player.[/quote]
I didn't suggest it would be unfair, I suggested it would be less fair. Bit of a difference. But you seem to see my point nonetheless.

chris319 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 14, 2010, 06:14:25 PM »

Quote

How about they have a sheet with the letters (both good and stoppers) and tiles predetermined before the show, and S&P has to sign off on them?

Having dealt with them, this is most certainly how NBC Compliance and Practices had them do it.

The Sprint Round had a series of 5" black-and-white monitors. The challenge was giving each one a CGA video feed, likely from a series of individual PCs (or Apples).

pyramid100 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 14, 2010, 07:34:57 PM »

This video supports the theory that there was a list of numbers and letters backstage. At 4:48 After Jamie Farr gets excited and randomly shoves two tiles down the slot, Chuck asks him to call out the numbers. Eventually the letters pop up but not as quickly as they would if it was a scanner. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzTGBmQg4nw

SRIV94 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 14, 2010, 07:41:16 PM »

[quote name=\'DJDustman\' post=\'244123\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 04:32 PM\'][quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'244112\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 01:53 PM\'][quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'244111\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 12:28 PM\'][quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'244105\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 07:29 AM\']Or. . . what if they just picked a totally different letter for the stopper?[/quote]
Then the potential for a Michael Larsen situation comes up. It wouldn't take some basement-dweller long to figure out "hey, if I pull double letters, I can place them both safely," and then have an advantage. Fairer to decide what the stoppers will be totally / mostly at random.

(If Jeremy's rule is correct, it works because a player has no choice but to place the first letter after drawing two / a second.)
[/quote]
I'm 99.9% sure Jeremy's rule is indeed correct. And you pretty much knew you were screwed if you drew two S's and the first fit into the last position of the word.
[/quote]

This is where you would buzz in and make some random wrong guess (or take too long) and get it wrong on purpose. Then the opponent has a choice of potentially another bad letter plus the one you may know is a stopper. It's kind of like passing a stopper to someone.
[/quote]
That is a possibility. But that to me is a better alternative than not allowing duplicate letters to be stoppers.

NickintheATL · « **Reply #27 on:** July 14, 2010, 09:27:02 PM »

[quote name=\'gameshowcrazy\' post=\'244119\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 04:12 PM\']Scrabble was a show that almost always had the disclaimer read by Charlie Tuna during the credits, something like, "due to technical difficulties, portions of filming not affecting the outcome of the game were edited." I always figured out the equipment for the sprint rounds was tough to manage.[/quote]

Actually, the announcer wouldn't say that, it would just be CG text on the screen during the credits. Any time that Charlie Tuna would speak (and other announcers on other shows) regarding what's been edited out is if a puzzle was thrown out or someone was ruled ineligible.

/"Portions of this program not affecting the outcome of the competition have been edited"

Otm Shank · « **Reply #28 on:** July 15, 2010, 12:17:17 AM »

My recollection from the way I studied the show for a possible trip to L.A.: Multiple letters showed up would be placed left to right in the word. A letter in the word could also be a stopper, but all of the "good" letters would be placed before the stopper. Therefore, if you drew two Ss, and the first one placed is the last position in the word, the second S is certainly a stopper.

Not every word had the good/stopper letter, but the ones that did helped keep a word from being forced to Speedword too quickly.

As far as the number tiles, I think the simplest way that it might have worked: I assume the tile tray is wired up. When you remove a tile, it turns off a light offstage. The production person then relays the letter to the display operator to place in the desk monitor, who syncs up the letter appearance with the tile drop to make it appear as if the tile activated the letter.

chrisholland03 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 15, 2010, 08:19:25 AM »

[quote name=\'Otm Shank\' post=\'244166\' date=\'Jul 14 2010, 11:17 PM\']As far as the number tiles, I think the simplest way that it might have worked: I assume the tile tray is wired up. When you remove a tile, it turns off a light offstage. The production person then relays the letter to the display operator to place in the desk monitor, who syncs up the letter appearance with the tile drop to make it appear as if the tile activated the letter.[/quote]

My understanding from one of the contestant coordinators was that it was even simpler than that...There was always a camera on the contestant selecting tiles, so no letters were displayed until they could see. This is also why they switched from the opaque tiles with small numbers on the corners to the solid white on blue tiles with large numbers in the middle -- and also why the contestants were required to 'call' their tiles. If a contestant 'called' a tile incorrectly, Chuck would usually catch it and correct it (sometimes prompted)