Special on Reg Grundy tonight (in Oz)

[pownster]

[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'248039\' date=\'Sep 22 2010, 05:49 AM\']

There is a difference between something that is derivative, and something that is a straight-up carbon copy.

Right. When shows such as The Weakest Link and Deal Or No Deal are brought to the U.S., everything is done above board; contracts are drawn up and money changes hands. The originator of the idea gets some compensation for his brainchild. Contrast this with ripping off a show lock, stock and title, right down to the set design. Unlike, say, Bob Stewart, who made his fortune by the sweat of his intellectual brow, Reg Grundy's only apparent talent was in ripping off and mimicking other shows.
[/quote]

In defense of Reg, once the laws were passed in the 1980's around copyright on game show formats - his production company did pay for the rights to all his formats, and continued to do so right up until Fremantle gobbled the company up. No laws were actually broken - however, you could probably question the ethics of it all.

[chris319]

In defense of Reg, once the laws were passed in the 1980's around copyright on game show formats - his production company did pay for the rights to all his formats

Of course! He had to, lest he be in violation of the law! Did he pay retroactively for all the formats he swiped? I rather doubt it. When the laws were passed in the '80s, did he start paying for the formats he had already ripped off presumably without the owner's permission, or did he go back and obtain permission from the copyright holders? In other words, suppose he had Three On a Match in production, presumably without the consent of its owner, Bob Stewart. When the laws were enacted, did he simply start writing checks for a format he appropriated presumably without permission, or did he go to Bob Stewart and ask for his approval to produce an Australian version of the show? Were the formats in production at the time "grandfathered", as we say, when the laws passed?

No laws were actually broken - however, you could probably question the ethics of it all.

I would definitely question the ethics of exploiting the intellectual property of others without compensating them.

[rjaguar3]

[quote name=\'pownster\' post=\'248051\' date=\'Sep 21 2010, 07:21 PM\']In defense of Reg, once the laws were passed in the 1980's around copyright on game show formats[/quote]

Could you please elaborate on this?  I'd like to read this.

I know that at least in the United States, when you're dealing with game show formats, the threshold needed for infringement is significantly higher than usual.

[inturnaround]

A home viewer wouldn't care where Grundy got his ideas or how they were obtained, they'd just like the product as presented. And, from all I'm hearing, they did like it. So I understand why Grundy is well-regarded by his fellow countrymen. I can also understand by GT or Bob Stewart wouldn't care for him...but me, I just don't care.

[Dbacksfan12]

Considering Goodson pretty much screwed Bob Stewart over...I don't have much sympathy for him.

[14gameshows]

[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'248087\' date=\'Sep 22 2010, 11:18 AM\']Considering Goodson pretty much screwed Bob Stewart over...I don't have much sympathy for him.[/quote]

Care to shed some light on this?  This is interesting!

[chris319]

[quote name=\'14gameshows\' post=\'248107\' date=\'Sep 22 2010, 12:04 PM\'][quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'248087\' date=\'Sep 22 2010, 11:18 AM\']Considering Goodson pretty much screwed Bob Stewart over...I don't have much sympathy for him.[/quote]

Care to shed some light on this?  This is interesting![/quote]
Yes, I'd like to hear this theory, too. Bob Stewart was properly compensated for his work for G-T and left of his own volition.

[MisterBlue]

I was always under the impression that Stewart thought he didn't have enough clout in Goodson's company, and that's why he left.

[Dbacksfan12]

I thought there was a story out that said Goodson screwed Stewart out of royalties...specifically for TTTT and TPiR.

[William A. Padron]

[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'248166\' date=\'Sep 23 2010, 05:12 PM\'][quote name=\'14gameshows\' post=\'248107\' date=\'Sep 22 2010, 12:04 PM\'][quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'248087\' date=\'Sep 22 2010, 11:18 AM\']Considering Goodson pretty much screwed Bob Stewart over...I don't have much sympathy for him.[/quote]

Care to shed some light on this?  This is interesting![/quote]
Yes, I'd like to hear this theory, too. Bob Stewart was properly compensated for his work for G-T and left of his own volition.
[/quote]

I heard one story that, while G-T was paying good money to him as a producer at the company, Goodson claimed while having dinner with Stewart that he was his "prince".  Stewart's reply to Goodson, "But Mark, I want to be king!"

[Neumms]

[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'248052\' date=\'Sep 21 2010, 08:24 PM\']

No laws were actually broken - however, you could probably question the ethics of it all.

I would definitely question the ethics of exploiting the intellectual property of others without compensating them.
[/quote]

Australia is a nation settled by convicts, after all.

[chris319]

I thought there was a story out that said Goodson screwed Stewart out of royalties...specifically for TTTT and TPiR.

Bob Stewart did not have an ownership stake in the company or any of the shows he produced (like all of Goodson's producers* including Barker) so there were no royalties to be screwed out of. Frank Wayne used to grouse about Goodson cutting off the company profit sharing plan, almost to Goodson's face.

I heard one story that, while G-T was paying good money to him as a producer at the company, Goodson claimed while having dinner with Stewart that he was his "prince". Stewart's reply to Goodson, "But Mark, I want to be king!"

I've heard that one, too. Goodson already had a business partner and didn't want another one, I suppose.

*Garry Moore came to own IGAS. While not a producer, he was the exception.

[tvrandywest]

So many threads end up so full of conjecture and far afield from reality, that's it's great to see this one remain rooted in reality. I can confirm a few things:

Al Howard created Sale of the Century and was quite ticked for many years that Mr. Grundy did indeed periodically fly to New York, check into hotels, take detailed notes and mount the U.S. shows in his country. While despised for the practice, the consensus among that era's producers seemed to be a grudging respect for Grundy who at least understood enough about the intricacies of the games' formats to mount faithful recreations that worked. But millions of dollars of what is now called intellectual property was beyond the reach of the laws of the time.

When Bob Stewart was an employee of GT's his creations were "works for hire." There was never any expectation that Mr. Stewart would receive any royalty. Goodson did lavish him him the healthy salary and bonuses that were reserved for his top people, and that was part of what was behind the comment "Bob, I made you a prince." Bob Stewart confirmed for me that he did respond "But Mark, I want to be king." His frustrations included issues of autonomy and authorship, and were not only about money. The two did not speak for many years, until they finally exchanged words at the wedding of a mutual friend / employee in the 1980s.

Randy
tvrandywest.com

[chris319]

We've all read The Box so I won't rehash the story, other than Goodson didn't like one of Stewart's ideas, resulting in Stewart leaving the company and striking out on his own.

I still have check stubs from Mindreaders. Want to see one of my royalty checks for Switch? or Line 'Em Up? OK, close your eyes ...

Switch? and Line 'Em Up were sat on like a couple of eggs until someone on the TPIR staff pulled a Reg Grundy on me :-)

While despised for the practice, the consensus among that era's producers seemed to be a grudging respect for Grundy who at least understood enough about the intricacies of the games' formats to mount faithful recreations that worked.

You know, Randy, it's not outside the realm of possibility that Grundy had a shill go in and become a contestant on these shows and purloined the bible that way, or that he greased the palm of someone at the network. It's far fetched and I'm not saying it happened, but still ...

/Yes, Line 'Em Up is mine too (from the era of four-digit car prices) but someone else gave it the horizontal sliders.

//Still got those eyes closed?