PYL and/or Whammy: Your views

[Dbacksfan12]

I am of the opinion that these formats (especially Whammy!) are made to appeal to children, and the under 18 demographic.  They have childish antics, and really are not appealing to watch.  (However, I feel the same way about B&E games, minus the childish antics).  The questions are easy enough an 8 year old could answer them--yet they are missed all the time.

I made these suggestions over on the GSN boards and was roasted.  Since I like to think this group is more intellegent, what do y'all think?

[Matt Ottinger]

I don't think the people who designed the formats gathered in a room and said to each other, "OK, let's make a game that appeals to children."  So in that sense I disagree with you.

However, and I've said this before, our favorite game shows tend to be the ones that we remember from our childhood, and those obviously are going to be the ones that children can understand and play along.  Bright, flashy and easy-to-get shows like PYL and TPIR certainly fit that description, even though they're not specifically *designed* for children the way other games are.

A lot of you who were pushing so strongly for GSN to bring back PYL (either with the reruns or with the remake) are in your twenties and have fond childhood memories of the original, either on CBS or the incessant USA reruns.  Those of us who are older never entirely got your obsession with the show (hence the term "tomarkenite" back on Usenet) because we weren't kids when it was on originally and we recognized it all along as being a flashy, somewhat engaging but ultimately pretty empty game.

[uncamark]

My mind tells me that "PYL" and "Whammy!" are silly, stupid shows.  However, my gut gets me involved whenever I'm watching a final round and the spins are being passed back and forth.  That's the whole secret of the show--the all-or-nothing setup can engage some real nail-biters that you get caught up in, even if you note the stupidity of people pounding on a button while screaming "BIG BUCKS NO WHAMMIES!"  And that's the dirty little secret of the format.  And I also try to be out of the room or on another channel during the question rounds--that helps.  (And I was a grown adult when "PYL" was first on and I still got caught up in the stupid show.)

As for B&E, there is nothing wrong with the formats of their shows that can't be improved by better, more challenging question writing, better end games and a less kitschy feel.  ("TJW" became a better show in the end simply for having Bill Cullen around--even if Cullen wasn't at his peak, Cullen off-peak is better than a lot of hosts at their peak.)

[Jimmy Owen]

Well, you gotta remember that the show it replaced was "Child's Play," so maybe CBS wanted a show that was more child's play than "Child's Play."  Personally, I prefered "Second Chance."

[JayC]

What's B&E?  Sorry if that's a stupid question.

OT: This is my 100th post!

[SRIV94]

[quote name=\'JayC\' date=\'Dec 11 2003, 04:21 PM\'] What's B&E?  Sorry if that's a stupid question.

OT: This is my 100th post! [/quote]
 Barry & Enright (as in producers of TJW, TTD, BULLSEYE, PTP and countless others--OK, maybe not countless).

And congrats on 100.  But when you've done 209, you've really done something.  

Hey, I beat Zach to the punch.  Howzabouthat?

Doug

[PeterMarshallFan]

I like PYL because underneath all the silliness, there is one heck of an exciting, high-stakes game behind it. I see it in the same vein as shows like High Rollers--intriguing luck games where big money could be right around the corner, or a mile away [of course, there was some element of knowledge in the front game of HR, but the Big Numbers was all luck]

[The Ol' Guy]

You picked a pair of favorites with PYL and The Joker's Wild (Barry days), because they both had a wonderful balance of knowledge AND luck. With Joker, you could know 2 or 3 of the category subjects well, but if the wheels didn't go your way, you were dead. Second Chance/PYL the same. True, the questions weren't at Jeopardy level, but a viewer who feels threatened by the question level (we all know people who say, "I don't like Jeopardy. I can't answer a single question!"), won't tune in. Question difficulty should be matched with the stakes - and neither were big money games (like Twenty-One). Joker was a pleasant challenge, PYL is fun, just like a trip to a Vegas dice table. And here's as good a place as any to throw out another idea: thinking about the difference between most G-T games and most B&E games, I can see why Jack Barry's stay at G-T was short-lived. I'd say a lot of G-T games could be called "the thinking man's games", vs. Barry's and others' quizzes being " the knowing man's games." A lot of GT games depended on logic and deduction, others depended on recall. Any thoughts?

[tyshaun1]

[quote name=\'PeterMarshallFan\' date=\'Dec 11 2003, 05:35 PM\'] I like PYL because underneath all the silliness, there is one heck of an exciting, high-stakes game behind it. I see it in the same vein as shows like High Rollers--intriguing luck games where big money could be right around the corner, or a mile away [of course, there was some element of knowledge in the front game of HR, but the Big Numbers was all luck] [/quote]
 I agree wholeheartedly with George. PYL was never meant to tax anyone's brain, especially with the questions- simply put, it helps with viewer play along, and PYL needed all the play along it could get. The show overall was never meant to be taken seriously, with the Whammies, Peter Tomarken's silliness, and the loopy contestants they had on the show. It was just a nice escape for 30 minutes, and if the game was played right, it could provide some exciting moments.
Whammy!'s problems, IMO, stem(ed) from the sheer lack of play along value (1 question round, Big Bank added usually what, 1 question more?), the lack of charm of the Whammy (again, IMO), and the lack of warmth from Todd Newton (on that show, I actually like Todd overall).

[gameshowguy2000]

I prefer Whammy over the Classic PYL. You know why?

Well, the rules of Whammy's first round are easier to learn than that of the Classic PYL's first round:

Whammy: Hit a whammy in the first round, and you're done for the rest of the round. Easier than......

Classic PYL: Peter Tomarken always talked about getting 4 whammies in the first round. Very, very, very confusing rule. Does that mean the player who hits 4 whammies in Round 1 can't participate in any part of Round 2 (Question Round or Big Board)?

Also, the Big Bank idea for Whammy is a good idea. That's another reason why I like it over the Classic PYL.

Also, I don't understand why, on the Classic PYL, a player's scoreboard is turned off permanently when they he or she gets 4 whammies. Why can't they just put the score on $0? This lets the audience and home viewers know, "Oh, that player is not only out of the game, that player's score will stay at $0 for the REST of the game!

[zachhoran]

[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Dec 11 2003, 10:24 PM\']
Classic PYL: Peter Tomarken always talked about getting 4 whammies in the first round. Very, very, very confusing rule. Does that mean the player who hits 4 whammies in Round 1 can't participate in any part of Round 2 (Question Round or Big Board)?

 [/quote]
 Yeah, they presumably wouldn't take part in round two if they got four Whammies. I say presumably because no one ever got four Whammies in round one, though occasionally players got three. Usually someone would pass their spins after getting a second Whammy in round one, as Peter would tell them to be careful about getting a third Whammy in round one.

[Don Howard]

Also, I don't understand why, on the Classic PYL, a player's scoreboard is turned off permanently when they he or she gets 4 whammies. Why can't they just put the score on $0? This lets the audience and home viewers know, "Oh, that player is not only out of the game, that player's score will stay at $0 for the REST of the game!

Because if your readout says $0, it's possible that you'd still win the game
and return the next day. When it's turned off, you're done forever.

[gameshowguy2000]

[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Dec 11 2003, 10:26 PM\'] [quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Dec 11 2003, 10:24 PM\']
Classic PYL: Peter Tomarken always talked about getting 4 whammies in the first round. Very, very, very confusing rule. Does that mean the player who hits 4 whammies in Round 1 can't participate in any part of Round 2 (Question Round or Big Board)?

 [/quote]
Yeah, they presumably wouldn't take part in round two if they got four Whammies. I say presumably because no one ever got four Whammies in round one, though occasionally players got three. Usually someone would pass their spins after getting a second Whammy in round one, as Peter would tell them to be careful about getting a third Whammy in round one. [/quote]
 Uh-huh. And I remember that all too well.

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Dec 11 2003, 08:24 PM\'] Well, the rules of Whammy's first round are easier to learn than that of the Classic PYL's first round:
 [/quote]
 Um, PYL's rules aren't exactly taxing.

Classic PYL: Peter Tomarken always talked about getting 4 whammies in the first round. Very, very, very confusing rule.

How is "If you get four Whammies, you're out of the game" confusing? Sounds pretty cut-and-dried to me.

Does that mean the player who hits 4 whammies in Round 1 can't participate in any part of Round 2 (Question Round or Big Board)?

You're kidding, right? Let's break this down:

"If you get four Whammies" =  if you land on a Whammy space four times over the course of the game

"then you're out of the game" = you are disinvited from participating in the rest of the show. Period, paragraph, end of story.

Or maybe we should put it in code:
 
 If (Player.Whammies == 4)
     {
        OutOfGame(Player);
     }
else
     {
        GameContinues(Player);
     }

Also, I don't understand why, on the Classic PYL, a player's scoreboard is turned off permanently when they he or she gets 4 whammies. Why can't they just put the score on $0?

Because $0 represents the state a player is in if they have no money, but are still in the game, whereas a blank slate indicates a player is out of the game. Done. Finito. They're not coming back. Turn the eggcrate off.

If you're having trouble grokking these simple concepts, then I don't suggest you attempt tackling anything taxing like Lingo anytime soon.

[Don Howard]

"then you're out of the game" = you are disinvited from participating in the rest of the show.

That's hilarious. I must add "disinvited from participating" to the list which
contains such other phrases as "non-winners" and "hamsters apparatuses".
I burst out laughing when I saw that.