GSN wasn't the first to "pitch the niche"

[GS Warehouse]

[quote name=\'Dsmith\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 11:43 AM\'] [quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 07:36 AM\'] GSN's schedule remains overwhelmingly dominated by game shows whether you count Blackjack or not. Eight-five percent of the programming hours today [/quote]
Your good points are lost in the fact you must thumb this in our noses again.  Not everyone agrees with you on what is and isn't a gameshow. [/quote]
Like I've been saying for a while, the fine line on what is or is not a game show has been blurrying for years.  We've established that, for example, Match Game is a game show, but Extreme Dodgeball is not.  However, ED is more of a contest, and for that matter, MG is also a contest by definition.  Hence, GSN's change of focus.  If it's not an infomercial, it's still a contest of some sort, whether the prize is cash, or a car, or a trip, or a flokati rug, or a trophy, or a soulmate, or a role in a bad TV movie, or just the right to humiliate your opponent.

EDIT: I think Casey may have a potential storyline for ESPN's upcoming scripted series about a poker tournament (I'm not clever enough to make this up.)

[Jimmy Owen]

Scripted series on ESPN are OK with me because they are, by nature, entertainment.  The E in ESPN originally stood for entertainment, but the promise of something beyond sports never was realized.  Until now.

[MikeK]

[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 11:59 AM\'] Mind you, I'm still right. [/quote]
 Right, in your own mind.

Please justify, for once and for all, why you're right.  If you say "It's a game.  It's on TV.  Hence, it's a game show.", you're wrong.

[CarShark]

[quote name=\'hmtriplecrown\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 12:34 PM\'][quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 11:59 AM\'] Mind you, I'm still right. [/quote]
Right, in your own mind.

Please justify, for once and for all, why you're right.  If you say "It's a game.  It's on TV.  Hence, it's a game show.", you're wrong.[/quote]
But that's pretty much it. In every dictionary I've looked through, it says pretty much that a game show is a TV or radio show where people compete for cash and/or prizes. Blackjack has all of that, so it fits the definition of "game show."

Here are a couple of the sites I used:
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dic...efid=1861694652
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book...ry&va=game+show

[aaron sica]

[quote name=\'STYDfan\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 02:28 PM\'] But that's pretty much it. In every dictionary I've looked through, it says pretty much that a game show is a TV or radio show where people compete for cash and/or prizes. Blackjack has all of that, so it fits the definition of "game show."
 [/quote]
 The two teams who are in the Super Bowl each get money - the winning team gets more than the losing team. So, based on your definition, the Super Bowl is considered a game show, because they're competing for cash.

[MikeK]

[quote name=\'aaron sica\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 02:31 PM\'] The two teams who are in the Super Bowl each get money - the winning team gets more than the losing team. So, based on your definition, the Super Bowl is considered a game show, because they're competing for cash. [/quote]
 Aaron took the better of my two counter-examples.  Darn you.

Similarly, Olympians are, in essence, playing games.  They're televised.  However, they're not game shows.

[adamjk]

You could argue though, that a sporting event though it is televised, is technically not a show to begin with.

[Steve McClellan]

[quote name=\'adamjk\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 11:47 AM\'] You could argue though, that a sporting event though it is televised, is technically not a show to begin with. [/quote]
First word, first definition [courtesy Webster's, not Kline & Friends]:

Show (n): a demonstrative display ... [later definition] something exhibited especially for wonder or ridicule

Methinks some people here might possibly be able to stretch their minds around the concept of the Super Bowl and the Olympics fitting at least one of those definitions.

Sorry, try again.

...actually, on second thought, don't.

[CarShark]

[quote name=\'STYDfan\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 02:28 PM\'] But that's pretty much it. In every dictionary I've looked through, it says pretty much that a game show is a TV or radio show where people compete for cash and/or prizes. Blackjack has all of that, so it fits the definition of "game show."

The two teams who are in the Super Bowl each get money - the winning team gets more than the losing team. So, based on your definition, the Super Bowl is considered a game show, because they're competing for cash.[/quote]

OK. The Super Bowl fits the definition of a game show. So? Is there something wrong with that?

Similarly, Olympians are, in essence, playing games. They're televised. However, they're not game shows.

To you they aren't. Nickelodeon GUTS was modeled after the Olympics, and I haven't heard anyone here say that it's not a game show.

[CaseyAbell]

As I said, there's no way I'm going to argue the Blackjack issue again, because nobody ever changes their mind and all the arguments have been made.

Probably the biggest surprise for me on what-is-and-is-not-a-game-show occurred when a poster on this board noted that the old Home Run Derby is listed in the third edition of the Encyclopedia of TV Game Shows. (And so it is, right on page 97.) For those who don't remember the show, it featured genuine-article baseball players - most of them now Hall of Famers, in fact - playing a nine-inning game where home runs counted and everything else was an out.

By this extremely liberal standard, the current Home Run Derby would certainly qualify as a game show, and we're just a baby step away from the World Series and the Super Bowl getting in. Something tells me we're going too far here.

But drawing the line between sports and stunt game shows like Beat the Clock, Dog Eat Dog, Cram and American Gladiators is not so easy. Very real athletic skills are tested on those shows, and it becomes something of a subjective call as to where the game show kingdom ends and the sports world begins. I tend to think the line runs somewhere close to the Dog and the Gladiators, but it ain't easy to pin down the boundary.

It's got to fall between pumping the exercise bike on Cram and hitting Roger Clemens' splitter. But the precise location? Don't ask me.

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'STYDfan\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 11:54 AM\'] OK. The Super Bowl fits the definition of a game show. So? Is there something wrong with that?

Similarly, Olympians are, in essence, playing games. They're televised. However, they're not game shows.

[/quote]
 With the Super Bowl? No. But because it fits your definition of a game show, it shows clearly that there is something very wrong with your definition.

To you they aren't.

No, to pretty much anyone with a reasonable clue in their head they aren't.

Nickelodeon GUTS was modeled after the Olympics, and I haven't heard anyone here say that it's not a game show.

Suggesting that because B was modelled after A, A therefore inherits the properties of B, is about the worst application of logic I have ever seen in my LIFE.

[Steve McClellan]

[quote name=\'STYDfan\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 11:54 AM\']To you they aren't. Nickelodeon GUTS was modeled after the Olympics, and I haven't heard anyone here say that it's not a game show.[/quote]
Then perhaps you just haven't been listening closely enough.

[quote name=\'GS Warehouse\' date=\'Sep 24 2003, 12:11 PM\']I never considered Guts or AG game shows, so why should we?[/quote]
EDIT: Better yet, what Chris said...

[dzinkin]

I'm having ATGS flashbacks here... only then, someone was making the ridiculous claim that court shows and Playboy TV's "Night Calls" were game shows.

And no, that doesn't mean I like seeing the scenario repeat itself today.

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'dzinkin\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 12:59 PM\'] Playboy TV's "Night Calls" were game shows.
 [/quote]
 It's only a game in the sense that when I watch it I'm usually playing with my- um. Hrm. Nevermind.

[CaseyAbell]

You might call that playing with house money. Or a REAL play-along factor.

Wouldn't you know, Playboy's Love & Sex Test did make it into EOTVGS, third edition. One guy even put it on his resume under "professional costumer work," which for some sick reason strikes me as funny:

http://spectrum.troyst.edu/~jspatton/vitae.htm