Pyramid

[Dbacksfan12]

[quote name=\'golden-road\' date=\'Jan 11 2005, 03:03 AM\']I was thinking about the comments responding to the amounts in the Circle, so how about this:
[/quote]
Hold on.
So I can get a perfect score each time in the main game, and win $4725...and get all but 1 category right in bonus land and only win $3000?

Furthermore, you INFLATED the values of all other values; but you are giving tie-breaker winners $2500 less than 1985?  

Keep trying.

[TLEberle]

You're still gilding the lily.  The great thing about Pyramid was that it didn't have all kinds of wacky scoring rules or tweaks for no reason.  Most points wins.  In the WC, either you get the big cash prize, or token consolation money up to $1,000.  Not hard.  Don't mess with that.

And having three 'front games' and one WC will lose more viewers than it will gain.  The front game wasn't truly boring, but the Winner's Circle was just so damn good that it overpowered the first part.  I sit through the front part knowing the WC is a few minutes away.  Don't make people wait 20 minutes to get to the good part.  They won't.  Keep it to front/WC/front/WC.

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'golden-road\' date=\'Jan 11 2005, 01:03 AM\']I was thinking about the comments responding to the amounts in the Circle, so how about this:

Main Game: R1-$50, R2-$75, R3-$100, for a max of $4725.

Winner's Circle: $100-$150-$200-$250-$300-$500. All but the top is an even $1000, all but the first subject is $1400.

In addition, insert a series of angled extensions on top of the Circle display, so it resembles the '73 - '92 Circle.

Finally, reduce the tie-breaker bonus to $2500.

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Yeah. THAT fixes the broken stuff. Man, I didn't grok the concept of playing THREE FULL MAINGAMES before a Winner's Circle, but now that I see that is what you have in mind, I have to tell you that's the worst friggin' idea I've heard in my life.

Pyramid is ALL ABOUT the Winner's Circle. There is a reason IT is at the center of the stage and the maingame is played off to the right. (And the horrible breakage thereof, for the many and varied reasons we have addressed here over the couple years of the show, is the main reason for the show's failure, IMO.) The maingame is secondary to the Winner's Circle, it's just a mechanism used to find out who gets to play in it. You could do Rock-Paper-Scissors, and I don't think most Pyramid fans would mind. (And you'd get more WC's in a half-hour show!)

But no. Instead, you want us to sit through THREE FULL MAINGAMES, before someone goes to a WC that near as I can tell is still gonna be as broken as the one before it, because you're too busy fixing the SET instead of fixing the SHOW.

[Ian Wallis]

I do confess I would have liked to have seen Osmond try a clue or two himself, too, after a loss in the WC. But these days, with the laws of syndication and commercial time growing every year, there's really no chance for it. *sigh* What are you gonna do...?

Is there any chance we're going to reach a limit?  In each half-hour program there's only about 21 minutes worth of show now - how much further are we going to go?  Won't the advertisers be happy until we reach 15-15?  I'd like to think we're at the saturation point now...

Finally, reduce the tie-breaker bonus to $2500.

I never liked the $5000 bonus for a 21-21 tie.  I think $1000 would have been more reasonable.  The $5K bonus was half what the first trip to the Winners' Circle was worth - that's where the big money should have stayed.

[tyshaun1]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jan 11 2005, 09:03 AM\']Is there any chance we're going to reach a limit?  In each half-hour program there's only about 21 minutes worth of show now - how much further are we going to go?  Won't the advertisers be happy until we reach 15-15?  I'd like to think we're at the saturation point now...

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If the advertisers thought it was feasible, they would go for 0-30. The only reason shows exist is so that networks can make money off the commercials, and advertisers can make money from showing off the product. Personally, I think they should go with having each show being sponsored by one (or two) companies, i.e. Wheel of Fortune brought to you by Pepsi and Coca-Cola (hey, it could happen).

Tyshaun

[BrandonFG]

You all are missing the point. To hell with the scoring system; the front game was absolutely fine. I could live with the inflated WC values. I liked the concept of winning both WCs to qualify for the tournament.

What needed tweaking?

-The set. The Millionaire steel beams look is out, and was two years past its time when Pyramid debuted. Pyramid is not one of those "cold" game shows, and the set just looked silly.

-The camerawork. This is not MTV. Do they really think they need to move the camera around every 3 seconds? I honestly don't think a steady shot of the celeb/contestant team would've killed them. In the case of the WC, keep a tight shot of the two, and only move the camera when changing categories.

-The writing. The silly category names were funny on Win Ben Stein's Money, mainly because they were witty puns more than anything. The Pyramid categories were just trying too hard to get a cheap laugh. Even during the 70s and 80s, they were bad puns, but not overdone.

And don't even get me started on "What Donny Osmond's Podium Might Say" for the WC.

-Reviewing the material. Part of the fun of a word game like Pyramid is the spontaniety (sp?). Allowing the celebrities to review the material kills the mood, unlike on HSq.

As for the tournament, having it last three days and then saying, "Oh well, nobody went to the top twice, so we'll just say the lowest time wins...and that was (drumroll) George Elias!!!" Show over. Lame and rushed. I know a lot of this was because continuity, but that's crap IMO. I liked the idea of having the tourney winner make it to the top twice, and would've kept it at that. Why not win the tourney the same way you got in?

[chris319]

Is there any chance we're going to reach a limit?  In each half-hour program there's only about 21 minutes worth of show

It has always been thus. Your typical NBC game show of the '70s went like so:

28:25 TRT

6:00 Commercials

:42 Fee plugs

317

You're down to almost 21 minutes right there.

Homework assignment: somebody get out a copy of P+ and time the 317 crawl, from the time it comes on screen with something like "The following suppliers" bla bla bla until the G-T tiltle.

[chris319]

You all are missing the point. To hell with the scoring system; the front game was absolutely fine. I could live with the inflated WC values. I liked the concept of winning both WCs to qualify for the tournament.

What needed tweaking?

-The set. The Millionaire steel beams look is out, and was two years past its time when Pyramid debuted. Pyramid is not one of those "cold" game shows, and the set just looked silly.

-The camerawork. This is not MTV. Do they really think they need to move the camera around every 3 seconds? I honestly don't think a steady shot of the celeb/contestant team would've killed them. In the case of the WC, keep a tight shot of the two, and only move the camera when changing categories.

-The writing. The silly category names were funny on Win Ben Stein's Money, mainly because they were witty puns more than anything. The Pyramid categories were just trying too hard to get a cheap laugh. Even during the 70s and 80s, they were bad puns, but not overdone.

And don't even get me started on "What Donny Osmond's Podium Might Say" for the WC.

-Reviewing the material. Part of the fun of a word game like Pyramid is the spontaniety (sp?). Allowing the celebrities to review the material kills the mood, unlike on HSq.

This could be a chapter in a book entitled "How To Screw Up a Simple Game Show Format".  You could also add:

- No need to truncate a perfectly good main game to 20 seconds.

- Celebrity bookings: celebrities are supposed to be at least somewhat recognizable to the viewing public.

- Don't book contestants who suck at the game. Emphasize game playing skills over booking attractive, unemployed actors under 40.

- Ditch the hokey bump shots. The set is butt-ugly to start with and the audience KNOWS it's Pyramid and they KNOW Donny is emceeing.

- Sound effects: get some real sound effects. Bell and buzzer always work better on a game show than "whoosh".

- Music: too bad this version didn't have any.

[urbanpreppie05]

[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jan 11 2005, 05:09 PM\']

You all are missing the point. To hell with the scoring system; the front game was absolutely fine. I could live with the inflated WC values. I liked the concept of winning both WCs to qualify for the tournament.

What needed tweaking?

-The set. The Millionaire steel beams look is out, and was two years past its time when Pyramid debuted. Pyramid is not one of those "cold" game shows, and the set just looked silly.

-The camerawork. This is not MTV. Do they really think they need to move the camera around every 3 seconds? I honestly don't think a steady shot of the celeb/contestant team would've killed them. In the case of the WC, keep a tight shot of the two, and only move the camera when changing categories.
 
-The writing. The silly category names were funny on Win Ben Stein's Money, mainly because they were witty puns more than anything. The Pyramid categories were just trying too hard to get a cheap laugh. Even during the 70s and 80s, they were bad puns, but not overdone.

And don't even get me started on "What Donny Osmond's Podium Might Say" for the WC.

-Reviewing the material. Part of the fun of a word game like Pyramid is the spontaniety (sp?). Allowing the celebrities to review the material kills the mood, unlike on HSq.

This could be a chapter in a book entitled "How To Screw Up a Simple Game Show Format".  You could also add:

- No need to truncate a perfectly good main game to 20 seconds.

- Celebrity bookings: celebrities are supposed to be at least somewhat recognizable to the viewing public.

- Don't book contestants who suck at the game. Emphasize game playing skills over booking attractive, unemployed actors under 40.

- Ditch the hokey bump shots. The set is butt-ugly to start with and the audience KNOWS it's Pyramid and they KNOW Donny is emceeing.

- Sound effects: get some real sound effects. Bell and buzzer always work better on a game show than "whoosh".

- Music: too bad this version didn't have any.

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And now, something a little different...

-I thought the new main game was better, albeit faster.
-The celebs, at least to me, were recognizable about 80% of the time, about the same as they were on the 80s Pyramid.
-Most contestants were good. If you had watched more than once, you could have seen some very good players.
-The set was fine. It fit the era of the time, just as game shows went through periods of pastels, earth tones, video walls, and primary colors.
-The music, if you could actually hear it, was decent. Too bad you couldn't hear it.

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' date=\'Jan 11 2005, 03:55 PM\']-Most contestants were good. If you had watched more than once, you could have seen some very good players.
[/quote]
I think Chris was referring to the celebrity partners. The only reason Hal Sparks was worth a damn was because they had him on fifteen thousand times to pimp Queer As Folk.
[quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' date=\'Jan 11 2005, 03:55 PM\']-The music, if you could actually hear it, was decent. Too bad you couldn't hear it.
[/quote]
That was not music, that was a burbling electronic music bed. No hook whatsoever.

[SRIV94]

[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jan 11 2005, 03:52 PM\']Homework assignment: somebody get out a copy of P+ and time the 317 crawl, from the time it comes on screen with something like "The following suppliers" bla bla bla until the G-T tiltle.

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[/quote]
Approximately 17 seconds (took two samples--one with Ludden and one with Kennedy, and both came out to roughly 17 seconds).

Doug

[chris319]

I thought the new main game was better, albeit faster.

It wasn't faster, it was shorter. The players didn't play any faster.

I saw bad players on both the celebrity and civilian sides. Maybe we aren't thinking of the same episodes.

[Jay Temple]

Changes I would make:

1.  Go back to the material and judging that we saw in the old days.
2.  Returning champions.  Most money in the WC wins the day, as in 1982-91.
3.  Two celebs for five days a week, at least most of the time.  (If ratings improve when you have a theme week but still have returning champions, I'm okay with it.)
4.  To decrease the likelihood of ties, the values in the WC go to $100-200-300-400-500-600.
5.  (This part is original.)  A win in the WC is worth $1,000 for each point from the main game, excluding tie-breaker rounds, with round 3 played all the way through.  For a perfect score of 18, you play for $25,000.  The second trip to the WC is no different than the first.  However, if you can get an automaker to give away a car for two perfect boards in one day, that would be a great addition.

If they made these changes, or even just the first four, I could forgive the technical aspects of the Osmond show.  I'd even give Osmond a chance to rise to the level of the material.

[Robert Hutchinson]

[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' date=\'Jan 12 2005, 01:29 AM\']4.  To decrease the likelihood of ties, the values in the WC go to $100-200-300-400-500-600.[/quote]

That, um, wouldn't decrease the likelihood of ties. All you did was double the dollars--the ratios of scores would be unchanged.

I don't think Pyramid had a tremendous number of bad players, but it still had too many. If they take 10 seconds in the first round trying to convey a word with "um, that thing, (waves arms around)", their appearance should be edited out of the show and a replacement should be brought in.

(I wonder just what the show would've been like without the Winner's Circle "coaching", though.)

[TLEberle]

If you truly want to discourage WC ties (something I didn't mind from the 80s shows) have the WC values increase 25-50-100-200-400-800.  The only way you get a tie is if the two players get exactly the same boxes in their games.