Pulling a "Larsen" on WoF...

[Kevin Prather]

[quote name=\'PeterMarshallFan\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 06:56 PM\'] [quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 03:41 AM\'] [quote name=\'Brandon Brooks\' date=\'Jul 31 2003, 06:00 PM\']Here are some scenarios.  Let's say that all players get stuck in the second round... for the remainder of the show.

1) They'll stop tape, tell the contestants to cut it out and reshoot the round again.
2) They'll keep going until time runs out.[/quote]
Watch me digress . . .

Wasn't an entire second round edited out of a show once, eight or ten years ago? They went right from the end of the first round to Pat standing in front of the puzzle board, explaining that there were technical problems or time problems or something, announcing who won and how much they won, and throwing to commercial.

I know I'm not crazy. (On this particular point.) [/quote]
I'm likely falling for a hoax, but I read on ATGS a while back that the puzzle was "Vanna's Pregnant" and right after the show she had a miscarriage, so it was cut to the scene you reference. [/quote]
 I'm pretty sure said puzzle was longer ago than 8-10 years.

i remember seeing the puzzle solve in a Vanna White A&E Biography. The contestant solved the puzzle, then Merv Griffin ran out with ballons and flowers.

Also, when watching that Biography, i don't remember anything about a miscarriage. I'll browse the net for any more info.


BTW: as for my question...i think the answer may have been posted, drowned in \"morals\" and \"impossible\" posts, but is there, or is there not a rule prohibiting purposely spinning the wheel one around to land on the same spot?

[Matt Ottinger]

I am no moral judge, but if it were me, I would consider having much of my winnings stolen and losing my marriage quite a price to pay for a little notoriety.

OK, I guess I see now where you were coming from on this.  If he hadn't won big on PYL, then he wouldn't have been in the position to have had all that money stolen in the first place.

And if Lincoln hadn't been such a fan of the theater...

[Matt Ottinger]

BTW: as for my question...i think the answer may have been posted, drowned in \"morals\" and \"impossible\" posts, but is there, or is there not a rule prohibiting purposely spinning the wheel one around to land on the same spot?

There is a specific rule that says you can't deliberately spin to -- as they put it -- \"beat the house\".  The practical application of that rule is that you can't give the wheel a tiny nudge just to hit the big money space that's a few wedges away.  According to the late 80s rules I have, the decision on whether you're \"aiming\" at a nearby wedge is left up to Pat, of all people.

After that, everything else is speculation  For example, if you're getting the wheel all the way around, I can't imagine how they could accuse you of doing anything wrong even if you are hitting the same space every time.  But in addition to the challenge of consistantly putting exactly the same weight into a pretty hard spin, it's also been suggested back on Usenet that the tightness of the wheel can be adjusted while the game is in progress.  I don't think S&P would let them get away with adjusting the torque *during* a spin, but between spins would strike me as being OK.

I'll throw out another thing that hasn't been mentioned.  One of the big differences in production between game shows of the 80s era and today's shows is that back then, stopping tape was pretty unthinkable unless the studio was on fire or something.  Today, stopping tape is a lot more common for any number of different reasons.  I suggest to you that if a Larsonish situation started to develop on a show like Wheel today, they'd stop tape and get to the bottom of it before it was allowed to get out of hand.

[ChuckNet]

I remember back in the day when Chuck would do the \"Final Spin of the Day\" , he would aim for the biggest money wedge. Somehow it doesn't seem right that there should be a rule on a game show that forbids someone to amass the most money, but, as has been stated, it's their game.

Pat does the same thing nowadays, and more often that not, if no one else gets a chance to spin in that round, he'll land on or at least around the $5K space.

Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious \"Chuckie Baby\")

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Aug 3 2003, 05:56 PM\']

I remember back in the day when Chuck would do the "Final Spin of the Day" , he would aim for the biggest money wedge. Somehow it doesn't seem right that there should be a rule on a game show that forbids someone to amass the most money, but, as has been stated, it's their game.

Pat does the same thing nowadays, and more often that not, if no one else gets a chance to spin in that round, he'll land on or at least around the $5K space. [/quote]
 I respectfully disagree.  For those of you too young to remember, Chuck would pretty consistantly hit the top value on the wheel on his final spin.  You could just about count on it.  Pat has specifically said in interviews that he didn't think it was fair for him to manipulate the outcome like that, so he studiously avoids spinning for a specific wedge.  That's one of the reasons they began adding a thousand to the value of his final spin.

If it seems to you that he tries harder to hit the $5K in certain situations, I assure you that's just coincidence.  For all the talk of \"pulling a Larsen\" in this thread, the one spin you can absolutely count on being random is Pat's.  Leaving it up to him to decide when he should or shouldn't be aiming for the $5K wedge opens up all sorts of S&P issues.

[Robert Hutchinson]

I don't think Pat aims for the $5K, but I would not be at all surprised to learn that the position the wheel is in at the beginning of the fourth round (and it's always the same position) was chosen intentionally because Pat's average final spin strength gets the wheel pretty close to the $5K.

(I wish they didn't have to edit out the final spins that land on Bankrupts. Those used to be such fun, what with Pat having his \"vowels worth nothing\" patter shot to hell.)

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' date=\'Aug 4 2003, 12:37 AM\'] But I would not be at all surprised to learn that the position the wheel is in at the beginning of the fourth round (and it's always the same position) was chosen intentionally because Pat's average final spin strength gets the wheel pretty close to the $5K.
 [/quote]
 I would. First, that position is set where it is because of the camera shot of the $5K space, just like the camera shot of every other TDV over the course of the show. Frames it right between Player 1 and Player 2, IIRC. The fact that that happens to be just shy of a revolution to Player 1's pointer (which is in the range of the average spin) is mere happenstance.

Secondly, you seem to be under the delusion that the producers WANT Pat to nail the $5K space. Sure, maybe once every week or two, but I promise you they're not gonna set things up so that he has a higher-than-normal chance of hitting it, I don't care what their prize budget is. That gets expensive.

[SRIV94]

[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' date=\'Aug 4 2003, 02:37 AM\'](I wish they didn't have to edit out the final spins that land on Bankrupts. Those used to be such fun, what with Pat having his \"vowels worth nothing\" patter shot to hell.)[/quote]
Call me crazy (\"You're crazy!\"), but I, too, enjoyed those moments where Pat would do the spiel only to see him land on Bankrupt.  I recall at least one NBC episode where he landed on Bankrupt something like 3 times in a row--needless to say Mother McKenzie had a field day with that one.

Doug

[PeterMarshallFan]

[quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Aug 4 2003, 10:50 AM\'] [quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' date=\'Aug 4 2003, 02:37 AM\'](I wish they didn't have to edit out the final spins that land on Bankrupts. Those used to be such fun, what with Pat having his "vowels worth nothing" patter shot to hell.)[/quote]
Call me crazy ("You're crazy!"), but I, too, enjoyed those moments where Pat would do the spiel only to see him land on Bankrupt.  I recall at least one NBC episode where he landed on Bankrupt something like 3 times in a row--needless to say Mother McKenzie had a field day with that one.

Doug [/quote]
 OMG. I remember that. It aired on GSN last year.

[Chelsea Thrasher]

[quote name=\'GSFan\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 07:16 PM\'] Enough GSN, I'm switching to Nick at Nite.
 [/quote]
 Don't.   That network has gone down the crapper faster than last thursday's spaghetti.

Anyway, first to clear up a couple points.

Larson only won $109K and Change.   Around the $45K mark, he hit $1K + A Spin, but was credited with $2K (and the spin).

Also, the VAnna's Pregnant puzzle happened in 1994.  Between the time of taping and the OAD, Vanna had a miscarriage (This was before Kid #1).   The puzzle was edited out, and, I believe, more commercial time was edited in.    

----

As for my thoughts on this, re: WoF....I say, if a contestant has the ability to finesse the wheel for the entire taping of the show, is dang sure about what letters they're picking, and is lucky enough to have their opponents screw up so that they get control back, then  I don't see a problem....Mainly because, with all the different variables that come into play, the likelyhood of taking away more than $40-$50K is slim (Only way it'd probably happen is to have a good entire show, and then have Pat spin the $5K [$6K])

And then, even if you managed to walk away with $60K-$70K after that, you've got a 50/50 chance of only winning $25K in the bonsu round, meaning unless an entire slew of variables go exactly your way, the chances of winning more than $100K or so are slim to none.   Feasibly, a person could manage to a)Finesse the wheel at all the right times, while not drawing suspiscion [Remember, Finessing the wheel to try to hit controlled TDV's all the time is against the rules], b)Have a good idea at all the puzzles, c)Have their opponents screw up, d)Win the Jackpot, e)Win all the Prizes plus the car in the mystery round, f)Have pat spin the $5K Space in the Speed Round, g)Hit the $100K in the Bonus round and get the puzzle right, and walk away with $200K-ish, but the chances of all that happening are so minute that it's probably not ever gonna happen.  

At most, on a good day, as a  contestant, WITH the $100K space in the bonus round being hit, the most you're probably gonna come away with is about $130K.    Without the $100K Space, you're looking at about $50-$60K-ish.
--
Personally, I'd rather just go on J!, hope I can stand answering questions [or would that be questioning answers] for a really long time, hope I don't hit any tough opponents, and rack up the dough [Thank you unlimited reigns].  At least with Q&A/A&Q shows, you have a greater deal of control.   If my math is right, in a perfect situation, the max you could win on J per show is $250K....Now, if you were to even come close to that, and have a long reign...Screw WoF.....AS long as you can get on the show, and have knowledge about what you're being asked (Easier task than a decade ago), then....

$$

[zachhoran]

The all-time maingame record was $65,250 set in 2000 during a College Week IIRC. The previous record set in 1987 during the SHopping era was $59,013(a then-record $44,300 was won in round three on the puzzle An American Success Story); that total included a car as a special prize on the round two wheel(Incidentally, in 1986 they offered a $31k Cadillac as the round two special prize once, but it was not won). The highest one-round win I can recall was $45,000 in 1994 in a Speed Up round(the puzzle was James Madison Wisconsin). Of the three players mentioned, only the first won their bonus round.

And of course, we know about the $62K \"Thrill of Victory.....\" loss from 1985.

[parliboy]

[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Aug 4 2003, 10:34 AM\'] you seem to be under the delusion that the producers WANT Pat to nail the $5K space. Sure, maybe once every week or two, but I promise you they're not gonna set things up so that he has a higher-than-normal chance of hitting it, I don't care what their prize budget is. That gets expensive. [/quote]
 Anal observation:

Given the odds of hitting that space, hitting it every week or two IS a higher-than-normal chance.

[J.R.]

When you think about it, you really can't \"Larson\" the wheel. Because there is only so much you win as there is a finite number of letters in a puzzle. Larson could literally spun for the next 6 weeks, the sky was the limit.

Aslo, the reason, along with the others said, why you never saw Larsons and PYL and WOF is because of their fast pace, it's easy to get lost in the games and forget about details, the producers are aware of this.

I recall after Larson did his deed, other potentail contestants \"came out\" with their schemes to break the bank, Larson was not the only one to figure out the patterns. If Larson had not broke the bank, someone else would of, it was only a matter of time with the small number of patterns on the Big Board.

-Joe R.

[willmorris]

Just asking, what is this \"Thrill of Victory\" loss?  I was only 3 when it happened and do not remember it.

[Brandon Brooks]

[quote name=\'JRaygor\' date=\'Aug 4 2003, 05:48 PM\'] When you think about it, you really can't \"Larson\" the wheel. Because there is only so much you win as there is a finite number of letters in a puzzle. Larson could literally spun for the next 6 weeks, the sky was the limit.
 [/quote]
That was the exact point I made.

I recall after Larson did his deed, other potentail contestants \"came out\" with their schemes to break the bank, Larson was not the only one to figure out the patterns. If Larson had not broke the bank, someone else would of, it was only a matter of time with the small number of patterns on the Big Board.

No offense, but I don't think this is an earth-shatterring revelation, especially considering the amount of game show fanatics we have even now.  Someone would've been attentive and figured out.  I'm inclined to think Zack would've


Brandon Brooks